270 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

Lindonius, on 09 March 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

They still haven't given us a fully realised and working UI, CW is a meagre shell of what we wanted, ECM is still broken, balance a joke, hit reg laughable, Paulconomy and ghost heat still an issue, no sign of knockdowns and collisions returning, or R&R, or destructable terrain, or working jump jets etc etc and you want NEW game mechanics?

You want the Moon on a stick!

lol Touche good sir

Rebas Kradd, on 09 March 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Ghost Heat revisititation, role rewards

lol wut?

Kristov Kerensky, on 09 March 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

Krafty, the original MW2 was more of a sim

No it wasnt. Thats like saying Aces Over Europe was more of a sim than combat flight simulator 2. More sim mechanics = more sim.

Mechwarrior has been arcadey since the first one. MW2, and Mercs was no different. Load up gauss in SP, Small laser boats in MP.

In MW you blasted stuff in the Marauder.

MW3 was the most sim like because of all the simlike mechanics...that you...mentioned.

Edited by KraftySOT, 09 March 2015 - 06:04 PM.

[LordNothing]

mwll had superior environments, not just maps. their texture artists knew how color works. the maps were bigger and somehow felt alive. day/night cycles with temperature swings. volcanic erruptions and freezing water. little heat distortion effects. fog that didnt look like it was rendered with a voodoo 3.

mwo has superior mechs, something i didnt realize till i went back and watched some of the mwll gameplay vids. those damage effects. in fact it made me realize that mwo has some really good modeling. though you put a bad texture on a good model and you dont notice it is good, but you put a good texture on a bad model and it looks better. you do both and its a recipe for awesome.

i also liked mwll's approach to sensors, targeting, and electronic warfare. one targeting control, r? i had 2 hat switches dedicated to targeting and sensors on my pro throttle in mwll. in mwll you had to set up a c3 network and use teamwork just to get missiles to the target without line of sight, in mwo you can just hide behind a rock and lob at will. it felt like the game was intentionally dumbed down for attention deficit tweens and then called a thinking mans shooter as a lame attempt at propaganda.

i dont want mwo to be exactly like mwll, but i do want it to be better than it is now. not slightly better, not with a couple new maps and another thousand in mech packs. if pgi could simply learn from the things that worked well in mwll and make a better game things would be good. i see people nitpick about the small stuff, the heat scale or the way jumpjets work, or mech balance and quirks, but that stuff really doesn't matter. if they could just do better on the maps front that would be enough, i could let the dumbed down electronics warfare and lack of combined arms slide. if it doesnt get better i will grow board, move on, and wont blow any more money on stuff. if it does, well who knows what more i might spend.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 March 2015 - 07:47 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Creovex, on 08 March 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

We can talk the legality associated with it but in reality George could have gone after anyone if he wanted to go to that level... just takes ANY proof of revenue, even adsense nowadays.... Anyways, it doesn't matter, LL was cool but I felt what they did was suitable for a Planetside (should have sold it to Sony) scale game but not 32 v 32 game.



The JJS sucked. Sorry but I played Frogger at the arcade and find it lame to make an action game based around it.

Overall who cares... MW:LL is dead.

Except LL had the rights to the game for a time.

[Armorine]

Ll looked interesting but I just feel like mwos THE game. A lot of people seem to forget just what we have. Not to mention there's some exciting stuff coming down the pipeline. I don't know bout y'all but I'll be here till the end

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Alistair Winter, on 09 March 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Clearly a fake video.

As if cockpit monitors could ever work in a real game.

Yeah, isnt that impossible with crytek?

[Davers]

LordNothing, on 09 March 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

in mwll you had to set up a c3 network and use teamwork just to get missiles to the target without line of sight, in mwo you can just hide behind a rock and lob at will. it felt like the game was intentionally dumbed down for attention deficit tweens and then called a thinking mans shooter as a lame attempt at propaganda.

One was a mod aimed at BT fans, the other a mass market game that uses the Battletech logo. Kind of how the Starship Troopers movie isn't much like the novel at all.

[CyclonerM]

KraftySOT, on 09 March 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Something like Arma's engine would do what we need, complex math, lots of open space, lots of units, simulation mechanics, high detail physics, very good LoD system, real terrain mapping with a fairly high resolution, and the ability to deal with a huuuge amount of calculations since so many things are affected by the physics engine.

Absolutely! Unfortunately, i read somewhere that there is no way to have working 'Mechs in ArmA's engine. Oh well, i heard to make them in MW:LL they used some creative programming.. So who knows..

k05h3lk1n, on 09 March 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

why putting so much work into copyright protected material when the risk is so high that it gets shut down eventually?

Is it so hard to understand passion for a franchise, a series, an universe you love?

[Rebas Kradd]

KraftySOT, on 09 March 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

lol wut?

They've removed Ghost Heat from AC2s and large lasers. Have you not been paying attention?

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 March 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

Except LL had the rights to the game for a time.

No, MW:LL had PERMISSION to create the mod and not be shutdown by MS, big difference, and that was contingent upon them not ever charging for the mod, and it was wholly at the whim of MS. Just like making a mod using Star Wars IP was usually allowed by LucasArts, but it was also made clear that at any time LA could shut it down and even sue if any money was made. There were BTech and Star Wars mods created for Tribes and no one said a thing about them because they were free, and there were games for both IP's on the market at the time. Although the BTech mod was really really horrible, so I can see why no one said anything about it.

Hell, if it's a really successful mod, like Desert Combat for BF1942, they often find themselves bought out, like the DC team was. DiCE and EA hired the team to work on BF2, which is very very reminiscent of Desert Combat for that very reason. Other times, something like a cheat/hack detector gets made for a game and the people making it are contracted by OTHER game makers to do the same for their games. PunkBuster is a great example, Valve refused to help the team but they still did such a great job that Activision and iD hired them on to create the same thing for their games, and now PunkBuster is included with a number of FPS games, except of course for Valve games

[KraftySOT]

Rebas Kradd, on 10 March 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

They've removed Ghost Heat from AC2s and large lasers. Have you not been paying attention?

lol Hey Vassago...this is what these chowder heads call a "ghost heat re-visitation"

Now heres some Nick Cave.



This thread has gone ******.

Edited by KraftySOT, 10 March 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[Mechteric]

CyclonerM, on 10 March 2015 - 05:15 AM, said:

Absolutely! Unfortunately, i read somewhere that there is no way to have working 'Mechs in ArmA's engine. Oh well, i heard to make them in MW:LL they used some creative programming.. So who knows..

Yeah, I think they basically put a tank turret on top of enlarged infantry legs to make mechs work in Crysis.

[KraftySOT]

And thats correct, theres no way to do Mechwarrior in Arma's engine. Its been tried. Several times.

Arma doesnt have "hit points" it has "hardness", and it doesnt have "hit boxes" it has "voxels".

Completely different beast. Now...if you designed that same engine from the ground up to have "Hit points" and "hit boxes" sure you could do MW.

Or if you abandoned the TT ruleset for a penetration/joules imparted system.

And btw Rougemek is fantastic. Was playing that earlier today infact.

[Mavairo]

What I don't understand is how PGI can fail so hard at getting the Cry engine to do anything, that the LL guys did.

Or why PGI didn't simply offer jobs to the LL crew. Because frankly they did a better job than MWO has continued to do up to this point, in terms of content and variety.

[KraftySOT]

Mavairo, on 10 March 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

What I don't understand is how PGI can fail so hard at getting the Cry engine to do anything, that the LL guys did.

Or why PGI didn't simply offer jobs to the LL crew. Because frankly they did a better job than MWO has continued to do up to this point, in terms of content and variety.

Probably because they didnt have experience with the Cryengine and arent world class coders. Even Crytek said you couldnt do some of the things that are done in MWLL. Samurai was just good. Like ToadyOne good. Unfortunately, all coders are not created equal.

Secondly, why work for PGI when you can work for someone who makes AAA titles?

[dimachaerus]

KraftySOT, on 10 March 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

And thats correct, theres no way to do Mechwarrior in Arma's engine. Its been tried. Several times.

Arma doesnt have "hit points" it has "hardness", and it doesnt have "hit boxes" it has "voxels".

Completely different beast. Now...if you designed that same engine from the ground up to have "Hit points" and "hit boxes" sure you could do MW.

Or if you abandoned the TT ruleset for a penetration/joules imparted system.

And btw Rougemek is fantastic. Was playing that earlier today infact.

You gotta admit though, that if it WERE possible. Hot diggity DAMN would that be awesome.

Stomping through Cherno in your Raven, scouting the advance into the city center for your heavier teammates, getting lit up by a squad of infantry in the hotel, backing off and calling in some ASF's to do a bombing run, detect some Galleon tanks in your rear and start a running gun battle street by street as they try to box you in, but you have to be fast because your lance is only three minutes out and they need the recon data you can provide to successfully capture the port for your incoming naval assets carrying troops and munitions for the push further inland.

Man, I think I just made a mess in my pants thinking about it.

[EvilCow]

MWLL had its problems but it was more fun of MWO, more diversity and overall balance.

Too bad we will never see what it could have become given few more years.

[KraftySOT]

I think in retrospect, iDtech 5 was the engine we needed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_5

The big things are TEXTURE PIPELINE HOLY FREAKING GOD (3x that of Cryengine 3 were using) and alpha to coverage, which we have, but is horribly inefficient and why we dont have 'armor chipping' effects anymore. Last but not least, integrated SpeedTree (we have no SpeedTree. I hate everyone for this) vehicle physics engine that is superb, and the holy grail...itll be open sourced next year...so updates will be free and its cheaper.

Plus.

Carmack.

He's still the best in the world.

dimachaerus, on 10 March 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

You gotta admit though, that if it WERE possible. Hot diggity DAMN would that be awesome.

Stomping through Cherno in your Raven, scouting the advance into the city center for your heavier teammates, getting lit up by a squad of infantry in the hotel, backing off and calling in some ASF's to do a bombing run, detect some Galleon tanks in your rear and start a running gun battle street by street as they try to box you in, but you have to be fast because your lance is only three minutes out and they need the recon data you can provide to successfully capture the port for your incoming naval assets carrying troops and munitions for the push further inland.

Man, I think I just made a mess in my pants thinking about it.

Yup. Thats the game everyone wants.

[KraftySOT]

Now imagine that theres two light lances and 4 hover tanks in there. And youre on the hill in your Stalker, with your other three assaults, and two Demolisher heavy tanks.

Theres a Yellow Jacket VTOL just off station with a Gauss and Tag laser.

Little infantry guys go streaming past you to enter the town and use infernos and narcs on anything they find.

[KraftySOT]

But its rendered in this:

[Kh0rn]

Ill be honest I preferred the combat and feel of MWLL I felt like I was piloting a battle mech with good mix of weapons, Good sense of scale , sounds and feeling, Felt like I stepped into battle tech this is how and still hope PGI will make this game feel and less arcade like.