123 replies to this topic

[Tasker]

The Droid, on 09 March 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

How did Kurita mob them to stop playing? It is to our understanding that Marik talked lot of smack, and got smacked when they tried attack us. Then when they opened up the borders again they attacked us, but the moment we attacked back the louder voices in Marik suddenly fell silent.

You make little sense, dog.

Post in other thread excerpts from Marik war leaders making decision. All of them vote for "teach Kurita lesson" and "slap around Kurita" and "no problem to backstab Kurita because bored."

Does not bother me, honest truth. Think most politics in this game stupid nonsense, and that is reason for ridicule of clowns behind New Star League. But funny to ask, what happen to clowns? How come clowns not fighting now that fighting start?

Illithi lie, Marik worlds die.

[The Droid]

*new player joins Marik circa a week ago* "Oh so this Star League thing means we won't have to fight the other IS houses and can focus on stopping the clans, right?"

Marik High Command

[Ultra-Laser]

Vlad Ward, on 09 March 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

Kurita is on a different level. It has nothing to do with numbers, it's just the truth. Sure, Davion and/or Marik could try some hyperbolic time chamber style training to get on their level, but that's not the kind of player those factions attracted. Marik and Davion are the care bear factions. And that's fine. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. The problem arose when certain people tried to thump their chests in Kurita's face.

MischiefSC, on 09 March 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

Don't forget that for a good long while Kurita got thumped by CSJ and Davion both, brutally and badly. That wasn't because NS was terrible then - though I'm sure they got better. It wasn't that NKVA showed up - Kurita was turned around by the time they showed up.

Clans and the rest of the IS largely emptied. I don't mean a little. I mean that in the first month or two of CW in Davion I had nights where it was 60+ on all 3 borders of Davion players anywhere close to primetime and I could hop in at any hour and find a stupid number of people to drop with.

Kurita has better units right now because they actually have units. Same with the Clans, same with the 'big merc groups'. Kurita is wrecking face because they've got 36 really good players on pretty much every night. That's it. All due props to Kurita - especially the ones who show up regular and play. The problem though is.... why? Why is Kurita the only IS faction that has 36 comp-focused players who will actually show up every night and wreck face and play to win?

What is it about HK that attracts loyalist players like this? I can guess at why Davion was loaded with fair weather fans that jumped ship when things went south, but why did the opposite happen with Kurita? Did having a solid core of comp level players who fostered an attitude of "accept any challenge, no matter the odds" give HK players a solid foundation to (re)build on? Were the Draconis Combine fans with experience in CBT just come in being used to the idea that they would be fighting in mechs that were for the most part flatly inferior to pretty much anything their opponents fielded and that they would need a solid dose of gitgud in order to be halfway decent? Was there just something that caused the majority of existing Kurita players to start getting into CW just as everyone else was losing steam?

Tasker, on 09 March 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

Post in other thread excerpts from Marik war leaders making decision. All of them vote for "teach Kurita lesson" and "slap around Kurita" and "no problem to backstab Kurita because bored."

Does not bother me, honest truth. Think most politics in this game stupid nonsense, and that is reason for ridicule of clowns behind New Star League. But funny to ask, what happen to clowns? How come clowns not fighting now that fighting start?

Illithi lie, Marik worlds die.

I myself am very interested in seeing how Marik's internal strategic decision making process works. There were a fair number of Marik posts along the lines of "why did you morons vote for this when we knew X Y and Z?". If they are leaving such a weighty decision to an open election then I'm guessing they don't have any sort of representative parliament set up (lol) so Marik "pundits" end up having far greater influence on decision making then the actual unit leaders, by way of public opinion. How long were the metaphorical voting booths open anyway? The amount Marik posters grumbling about not getting a chance to vote implies that the vote was open and closed fairly quick. Almost like someone didn't want a rational, level headed debate to play out in a way that would go against the result he wanted. All speculation on my part of course. I'd love for one of you Marik guys to pop in with a diagram or flowchart or whatever so I can hear it real simple-like, straight from the eagles beak.

Agree 100% on space politics being a silly business overall, especially given that the level of complexity required for such agreements to make any sense does not exist in CW and most likely won't for at least another year if at all. The HK council made a deliberate effort not to deal with forum politics any more that absolutely necessary, for the most part only codifying the already existing agreement with the FRR. The only boarder more quiet then the FRR boarder is the one with Steiner, and I don't think anyone even talked to the Steiner guys. Meanwhile the guys plugging the nSL for weeks are now not-that-mysteriously stepping back from the forums. Almost like they're waiting for the heat to die down after their "overwhelming offensive" failed not only to make any lasting gains into Kuritan space but lost them every world in the vicinity of Terra, the one thing that they were able to justify all their hair-brained schemes with was the defense of that region and they couldn't do it. Now we have House Kurita: Defenders of Earth and a bucket of original recipe purple fried chicken.

Democracy, it just doesn't work.

[Cleaver404]

Having played the game since beta (obv., founders tag), but not made 1 forum post nor joined any sort of merc group, etc., until early Jan. due to CW, I can't give a lot of historical perspective on how things worked before CW; but I was around & active for all this. Some of the above is right. I'm the first to admit that at the closing of the wormhole, at Kurita *seemingly* disengaging from diplomacy & ramping up the trolling, and 'cause, well, during that whole "soft casefire" we had nothing to do, I was all for scrapping w/ you guys. Not 'cause I hated this neighbor, but 'cause, uh, fighting is fun & PUG dropping Clans night after night we all know blows. I'd have preferred we both agree to skirmish & fight, so long as it didn't detract too much from the clan front (to help us both get better at each others' tactics) & hopefully keep at least something of a way for us to eventually have a lane to the Clans open up.

When pwnface reached out w/ an albeit threatening (if honest?) olive-branch once the attack lane was clearly about to open back up as we pushed NE, I'll be honest, it gave me pause & if there were some sort of "re-vote," don't think it'd have gone the same without at least a bit more time, thought, calculation of viability, and if all went well, high-level talks w/ HK leadership.

But, as can be seen by my post in the "defenders of Terra" thread I think from last week, I was like "uh, war were declared?" even using the same Futurama clip, heh. I had no idea overnight this changed. Turns out some folks took a 2-3 weeks out of date poll out of context, decided to act on it suddenly to go take exactly one Kurita planet (and only one, don't think we've picked one back up since) & then disappear from CW & internal FWLM & PGI forums entirely. I'm not pointing fingers, people already assume (generally fairly correctly) who these high-profile & influential folks were/are; but I can't speak to why they went missing or why their sudden call to action wasn't comunicated... unless it were some super-deep covert-long-con-op by Clanner insiders! Let's roll out the conspiracy theories!

Here's my take on it & it seems to be gelling w/ the rest of who's left: it is what it is, let's ride it out & even if none of us individually can clean up the mess, we can do what that social-democratic mass has done otherwise up to this point: fight hard, show some honor in our actions, stay true to our word, and have fun. This is what I (as a relative newcomer to all this "socializing" stuff) am evangelizing & I hope that attitude starts to show through. Should I find myself in a position of influence and/or leadership in time here, I'll do my best to 1) have good ideas & 2) herd as many cats as I can to see them through.

Edited by Cleaver404, 10 March 2015 - 12:47 AM.

[Cleaver404]

And given this is in a thread specifically calling out Roadbeer, I'm not throwing him nor whole crew of NA TZ players under the bus, I honestly don't know entirely who was involved there; but sure, I gather he was one. What I can tell you he would say: "I'm no diplomat," that's plastered around those FWLM forum threads & he'd say it in TS plenty. Guy just liked to fight & when a fight was on, I give him all due credit at being a charismatic one to get people motivated. Hopefully he'll be back as a lot of folks like him (but he's not, alone, our secret Captain General or something, just a cool guy who liked dropping in CW & helping out in the game... who also happened to post a lot to forums... like a lot)

[PerfectDuck]

Cleaver404, on 10 March 2015 - 12:49 AM, said:

I honestly don't know entirely who was involved there; but sure, I gather he was one.

What is the full list of Marik guys who started this mess? At fear of skirting the border of the Name and Shame policy, I want to say from my own observations that Roadbeer, Ilithi Dragon and ThomasMarik have been the three voices I've seen being the most affected by (perhaps even succumbed to) NKVA trolling and the ones most on-and-on about it, continuously villainizing Kurita as shitposters and scummy. With some additional Seraphim guys chiming in about how Kurita are bad hosts and are rude to mercs. This thread is starting to become an even broader 'where are they now' sorta deal.

Also, damn Cleaver404, please just take over all of Marik right now.

[Cleaver404]

I'd like to be more involved, but Euro TZ kind of keeps me out of key moments as I work or sleep or do other useless crap like that. Still, will do what I can as I love this game & have been meeting some great people lately on all sides of borders.

[Mycrus]

PerfectDuck, on 10 March 2015 - 01:57 AM, said:

What is the full list of Marik guys who started this mess? At fear of skirting the border of the Name and Shame policy, I want to say from my own observations that Roadbeer, Ilithi Dragon and ThomasMarik have been the three voices I've seen being the most affected by (perhaps even succumbed to) NKVA trolling and the ones most on-and-on about it, continuously villainizing Kurita as shitposters and scummy. With some additional Seraphim guys chiming in about how Kurita are bad hosts and are rude to mercs. This thread is starting to become an even broader 'where are they now' sorta deal.

Also, damn Cleaver404, please just take over all of Marik right now.

In the interest of full disclosure..

I was for a full war with Kurita (though i am unable to "vote" as imma dirty baka piggu merc)

I led attacks on Steiner/Davion worlds during oceanic/early eu TZ to build the attack lane to Kurita.

The minute the attack lane opened up, I led the first few ghost drops (Asta/Altair cant remember which exactly). One of the Marik leaders asked me to stop dropping on that world so I stopped.

The following day Marik took a draconis world (presumably NA TZ). So presumably the war is finally sanctioned. I then proceeded to ffup with attacks in my TZ.

Then i met a large group of PHL, then my jaw dropped. The coordination was superb, they had brawl mechs upfront and lurm mechs used in the back lanes with good effect.

Then it dawned on me... fighting steiner & davion pugs did not prepare me for a fight with Kurita.

My response - shift to a faction with an active clan front... i need more experience fighting tougher fights before i can face Kurita again (that and more active F8L players to be able to coordinate better).

i still want a crack at fighting Kurita, but only after i git gud.

on a side note, at that time i hadn't seen roadbeer so i presume that he was not the instigator of the "war".

[Ultra-Laser]

Cleaver, I appreciate you trying to be all diplomatic and communicative and stuff but "I had only the most superficial understanding of these events as they unfolded and had no contact with the decision making process at any point" isn't quite the daring feat of forum journalism I was hoping for.

Oh hey, you were getting involved in CW only half a month before I did, neat. I think MischiefSC has a few post mentioning how Davion's playerbase "left for the holidays, and never came back." or something like that. Would it make sense to talk about CW's "wave 1" population vs "wave 2" population, or am I just imagining things? Two data points don't make for the most reliable assessment after all.

EDIT: I think NKVA go rolling around the same time and I know for a fact that some of the DC's main units have gotten about a dozen applicants in the last week or two, so now I'm thinking that there was a post-holiday surge and we are now settling down to a trickle of new entrants as more people hear about how great/awful CW is and want to try for themselves.

Edited by Ultra-Laser, 10 March 2015 - 02:56 AM.

[Karl Marlow]

Dunno how affected I am by nova posts. I have fun with the creative ones while I put the incoherent but loud ones on ignore. I'm not a unit leader though. That isn't to say I wasn't wanting to fight kurita. I just got bored waiting for the attack window to open up and got hooked on other games. As for the others. I don't really know illith very well. As for Roadbeer, he had been dealing with some RL stuff and went on leave about a week before the current hostilities began. To the question of who started this'mess' it was pretty much a gut reaction from a lit of Marik players over the attack on the wormhole.

[Cleaver404]

Quote

Cleaver, I appreciate you trying to be all diplomatic and communicative and stuff but "I had only the most superficial understanding of these events as they unfolded and had no contact with the decision making process at any point"

I like to think I understand it quite well. The problem is communication stopped. We were all discussing options on FWLM forums & TS when deciding where to drop and then suddenly "war were declared."

As I said, I wasn't there when it happened, but hopefully this helps some insight for folks: in the days leading to the HK planet cap that was apparently our Pearl Harbor, I was in our normal crews during normal times & there were more & more voices saying "wait, why aren't we hitting Kurita," and other unit leaders, senior guys, veterans, and yes, even myself at moments would say "we're still figuring out if and how to do that, so let's go somewhere else." Like I said, I wasn't with the groups that took the planet, but my thinking is it went like this from the chaos/miscommunication that was put on the forums after:

Guy #1: "why aren't we hitting that Kurita planet?" Guy #2: "No idea, didn't we all vote weeks ago to hit them when we got the chance, like the whole point of taking all the Dav & Steiner planets around Terra?" Guy #1: "That sounds right, round up everyone else, we're quein' up, yee haw!" And the Battle of the Buldge was on & has gone about as well as that one historically after it was initiated.

So communications definitely broke down & unit leaders weren't chatting (at least/especially across TZs).

And to be fair, until pwnface's relatively recent thread was opened & discussed, no one cared. The only communication coming out of HK that we on the ground could see were the trolls. So thanks, pwnface, BTW (for what it's worth, a lot of us read what was said & took it seriously--though yes, if you go check, I think I was the first to say "maybe they just *really* don't want another front to defend right now," half-jokingly).

Again, not at all here for the name-&-shame as folks say & I sincerely hope if Roadbeer is having some IRL difficulties that those clear up. I like to think even in some short months of knowing the guy, that he wouldn't just disappear, even if things were a mess & even if he were a part of it. He wasn't one to run & hide on forums or in game, so in some sense I hope this thread eventually turns to "no, really, where is the guy, I hope things are ok," and away from "he's ditched us for Clan Star Wars!" If he's done the latter, dude probably needed a break, cut him some slack, but if it's something more serious, folks best learn to shut the f- up when other folks have things to take care of more important than fictional-robot-fights & the forum drama thereof.

Meantime, I wouldn't be surprised if some new leadership does start stepping up here & I'd like to help see that it learns from this, too. Out of beta, we should all be pro's at how this stuff goes down & what to watch out for. Meantime, let's go beat each other up in fictional-robot-fights and earn some fictional $ doing it...

Edited by Cleaver404, 10 March 2015 - 03:23 AM.

[Abivard]

Good friends, sweet friends, let me not stir you up
To such a sudden flood of mutiny.
They that have done this deed are honourable:
What private griefs they have, alas, I know not,
That made them do it: they are wise and honourable,
And will, no doubt, with reasons answer you.
I come not, friends, to steal away your hearts:
I am no orator, as Roadbeer is;
But, as you know me all, a plain blunt man,
That love my friend; and that they know full well
That gave me public leave to speak of him:
For I have neither wit, nor words, nor worth,
Action, nor utterance, nor the power of speech,
To stir men's blood: I only speak right on;
I tell you that which you yourselves do know;
Show you sweet FRR's wounds, poor poor dumb mouths,
And bid them speak for me: but were I Roadbeer,
And Roadbeer Abivard, there were an Abivard
Would ruffle up your spirits and put a tongue
In every wound of the FRR that should move
The stones of Marik to rise and mutiny.

[Ultra-Laser]

Cleaver404, on 10 March 2015 - 03:18 AM, said:

snip

See, what I mean by "superficial understanding" is that you didn't mention the specifics of who said what to who or who was in charge of what, and if internal communications broke down as badly as you say I don't think you could tell me if you wanted too. I can get dodging a ban for name-and-shame, but that your story simply doesn't have a "that's when the orders came in" moment makes it seem like Marik leadership has no effectual ability to organize its minions. That there were people agitating for a conflict with house Kurita in the days prior is no great surprise, but going by your version of the story it sounds like Marik command either didn't exist or no one cared what they had to say anyway.

[YCSLiesmith]

The Droid, on 09 March 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

How did Kurita mob them to stop playing? It is to our understanding that Marik talked lot of smack, and got smacked when they tried attack us. Then when they opened up the borders again they attacked us, but the moment we attacked back the louder voices in Marik suddenly fell silent.

You make little sense, dog.

Molossian Dog honestly, no joke, believes that we troll these forums in order to undermine the CW community and drive players out of the game so that we can get ghost drops where they used to be. He's an idiot.

[Ultra-Laser]

YCSLiesmith, on 10 March 2015 - 04:28 AM, said:

Molossian Dog honestly, no joke, believes that we troll these forums in order to undermine the CW community and drive players out of the game so that we can get ghost drops where they used to be. He's an idiot.

You guys are part of the reason I stuck with CW, I have had few greater joys then watching some big headed forumite proclaim HK's inevitable demise then watching over the next few days and weeks as his faction gets BTFO. First month of CW HK got smacked around even harder then Davion is now, so its not like being on the losing team is a guaranteed way to lose player population. I'd be surprised if even half of all players even used the forums regularly, let alone even heard of the NKVA.

[Cleaver404]

Kurita Defenders of Terra thread, page 3 already outted it after a quick search:

Quote

Caine I was talking about the incident of BTD dropping with some FWLM pugs on Altair without permission.

After that, who "green lit" continuing attacks in TS, you'd have to ask Khanesh; but yeah, all I quickly found confirms the same, BTD went rogue, took Altair, the rest now seems to be history.

Edit: one more quick search on internal forums, there were 2 unit leaders in TS day after the BTD raid on Altair (which caused the obvious counter-attacking) saying to attack Kurita and then the rest was history. BTD don't (to my knowledge) talk to house units at all despite being on contract to (& long pre-CW members of) Marik it appears. They've played MWO as long as I have & DAoC as long as I did before that, but I don't know any of them (again, AFAIK, never seen the tag on our TS or house forums). Seems they woke the dragon & just pop on here & there in CW. The 2 leaders who were outed, we'll sort internally (Roadbeer wasn't one, BTW).

Kurita had mercs dropping on Keid & stopped them from taking Keid first. An uncommunicative Marik affiliated unit went off the reservation & took Altair, and all our internal forum communication went dark (there's no posts on the threads about what we should be doing here after March 2 there, it's almost eerie the hard stop to posting from almost everyone). This is where things fell down. Unit leaders in TS telling everyone "yup, go get 'em!" means the same should have been telling other unit leaders & members in forums where, well, we all can read & comment.

Well... war on...

Edited by Cleaver404, 10 March 2015 - 05:38 AM.

[reign]

Ok thought it was Kurita with an attack lane to FRR, maybe it is wolf, http://www.norrisdev.com/mwocw/
Sorry if I got it wrong.

Darn work and all getting in the way.

Btw. o7 to all house Kurita warriors. Some of the toughest warriors I have ever fought. Love matches against the HK guys, always something new and exciting.

Edited by reign, 10 March 2015 - 05:37 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

It would seem that in my absence, much like what happened to wolf, the golden zerg, and tentacle armed bear, someone in marik felt he deserved to be high lord of terra, siezed the idiot ball for himself, and proceeded to use said idiot ball to make war on the most powerful of the IS factions, despite said faction having a 60+ day reputation of resisting sieges and clan gundams.

Roadbeer, plz. Like Gyrok before you, it is now necessary that you pick up your family's endo-steel katana, and commit sudoku.

[Alex Reed]

PerfectDuck, on 10 March 2015 - 01:57 AM, said:

... With some additional Seraphim guys chiming in about how Kurita are bad hosts and are rude to mercs.

Perfect Duck,

I believe you are referring to Tesunie, who was a new hire to the Seraphim (fresh from Davion space) when he posted his conversations. He and I have discussed it twice and it should have stopped there. Please let me know if it has not.

For the record, Seraphim was never treated rudely by the DCMS nor have I ever said that. I think he was referring to RP comments after we left that were derogatory to mercs in general.

We try to stay out of the politics and Loyalist dealings as much as possible except when needing information on attack lanes. In our seven day contract with DCMS, it was simple ... Point weapons at Smoke Jaguar. I did not coordinate because I did not feel it was needed. We gave DCMS breathing room from Clan Smoke Jaguar while DCMS hit Davion.

There are personalities in the DCMS that I have the utmost respect for due to their character and they way that they comport themselves ... Lord Ikka is the main person who comes to mind. The Night Scorn and other DCMS units have earned my respect in the field due to their excellent field discipline and staggering focus fire ability. It is good to learn from some of the best.

In closing, if one of my guys is trolling, please let me know so that I can handle it on my end. It is against our code and is not tolerated. I have looked for ways to compliment your players but, by having to shut off VOIP and all chat to avoid the near toxic things being mentioned in general, it is hard to congratulate anyone in battle anymore. Your warriors are some of the best and I salute you on your tactics and gunnery prowess.

Sincerely,

Col. Alex Reed
The Seraphim

Edited by Alex Reed, 10 March 2015 - 07:19 AM.

[Tasker]

YCSLiesmith, on 10 March 2015 - 04:28 AM, said:

Molossian Dog honestly, no joke, believes that we troll these forums in order to undermine the CW community and drive players out of the game so that we can get ghost drops where they used to be. He's an idiot.

They are cray cray.