190 replies to this topic

[Soy]

This is how you run assymetrical.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8d3ed8b6938e4d6

Faux-pas symmetry..!

[Mcgral18]

Ultimatum X, on 11 March 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

[/list]That for sure, if you want oodles of weapons, there is mostly one way to go.

Here is a pseudo-asymmetrical build I put up earlier for "more than 6"

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6c28af3a9d84d3a

Goal was to roughly match the 10 or 12 SPL builds, but be semi-asymmetrical.

I'm not crazy about the CERSLAS, but the other options were shaving that arm further for a full ton or letting 0.46T go unused.



So, I'm taking the stance that I am wrong and everyone telling me effectively that there is not much point to torso twisting on a Nova, nor to using an ablative side - and apparently not much reason to torso twist either?

Premium Nova chassis; we can't access those yet.

7E on one side is the most you can get.

[aniviron]

Soy, on 11 March 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

*poptarts up over rock, glances at incoming quirks in the distance*

Btw - a good Nova round against good players should end with you showing internal on both legs, both arms, and yet chest remains yellow armor. That means you were jumpin a lot (legs), soaking some (arms), but yet twisting decently (chest). Or.... dead with 2 kills and some cored leftovers.

Have they announced anything about the quirks at all? I can't find a damn thing on these forums anymore, especially not now that the Developer Tracker thread seems to be dead.

That armor spread sounds about right for most mechs, actually.

[Soy]

Well it's about knowing when you can get away with facestaring, and when you have to twist. If you do too much twisting, there goes an arm. If you don't do enough, grats that heavy you just melted cored you with a couple Gauss backpedaling.

A lot of other mechs aren't that fragile, so potential overcompensation or whatnot between these two things isn't as apparent.

In other words, you actually do have to know when to take a round right to the face. Or when not to. It's funny...

Edited by Soy, 11 March 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[RedDevil]

Ultimatum X, on 11 March 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

I'm not arguing that those things are untrue.

I'm asking what is the advantage to survivability and protecting weapons if you go symmetrical over asymmetrical (or pseudo-asymm)?

Ah, sorry. I misunderstood the question.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 11 March 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

Premium Nova chassis; we can't access those yet.

That's fair, 7 for me with CERMLAS is sufficient (too many really).



When that side torso is generally available, that will be my build direction though.


It's the same style of Pseudo-asymmetrical builds we see on laser boat SCRs, TBRs and DWF Ballistic/Laser builds.

[RedDevil]

I got wrecked by an asymmetrical Prime build that ran 6xERML in one arm, and 6xSPL in the other.

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 11 March 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

Please explain to me what the advantage is to a Symmetrical build vs. my Asymmetrical build with regards to:

1) Protecting your weapons.
2) Keeping yourself alive.

Straight sword and board doesn't work. I mean, you could use that Nova-B's RT to minimize the effects, but you are limited to like running 1 CERMED or a larger weapon. It's easier to run a more asymmetrical build with a sword and board mentality.

For instance I've tried running something like 1 CLPL + 4 CERMEDS using Nova-S arms. It's very workable but not ideal under any stretch.

I used this concept in such terrible mechs like the Ice Ferret. When you know where the bulk of the weapons are, there will always be a shield side that is best used with the intention of losing it, while still carrying weapons there.

Also, it's pretty much like driving a Quickdraw... in the sense that if you aren't yellow all over the mech, you're not making the most of it. If the Nova has to lose that arm, shedding some of the damage to the torso isn't always a bad thing.

Frankly, it is inevitable that the Nova takes damage where you don't want it, so it will work with asymmetrical builds with weapons even on the shield side... especially when the non-shield side is removed.

Running something like a 7 CERMED with all (or the majority) of the weapons on the right side (or the left side) is just a really bad gamble.

[Verkhne]

Thank-you for the build Soy. It is a lot of fun and challenging indeed. I am findng it to be feast or famine, you cannot get caught out of position in this mech or you will find yourself hunkering down like a grunt in a foxhole. Finally getting some good games. I
know you don't suggest consumables but for this build I am wondering about using a slot for a UAV?(To help with situational awareness)

[Soy]

@Deathlike - It is not a shield mech. It can't shield, it can soak maybe once or twice in a pinch or a bad corner. You're gimping yourself if you approach working out a Nova with that mentality and force that playstyle, in my opinion.

@Verkhne - I suggest them why not, I just don't use them cuz I'm not that tryhard. Cba. I'd go UAV because it allows you to bait enemy view at it, which can allow you to squeak around 2 covers and get behind, etc.

Edited by Soy, 11 March 2015 - 06:20 PM.

[Deathlike]

Soy, on 11 March 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

@Deathlike - It is not a shield mech. It can't shield, it can soak maybe once or twice in a pinch or a bad corner. You're gimping yourself if you approach working out a Nova with that mentality and force that playstyle, in my opinion.

It's not a shield mech by choice. The intent is to take as little damage and lose a few limbs as possible. It doesn't have the luxury/durability like the Stormcrow that can dish it out and take a bit in return.

It's best used as a surprise mech in all honesty. Once that novelty has worn off, you have to be a lot more cunning and koniving to make it out alive.

[Soy]

Deathlike, on 11 March 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

It's not a shield mech by choice. The intent is to take as little damage and lose a few limbs as possible. It doesn't have the luxury/durability like the Stormcrow that can dish it out and take a bit in return.

It's best used as a surprise mech in all honesty. Once that novelty has worn off, you have to be a lot more cunning and koniving to make it out alive.

When the surprise is off, hit override and just core out randoms til death if you're in too deep.

That's way I look at it. I'm still studying group playin to find the 'weak' spots..

Essentially they are 10% of the size (timewise) as solo group pug, but they still exist... specifically Emp/Sj.

Particularly for baiting light escorts (firestarters, you can at least core 2 on the way out the door if isolated) or for decoying while your team pushes correctly. It's ballsy and very 'loner' play but it is what it is.

I'm finding myself opening up the first kill/two, fade back cuz I soaked 2 shots from crackshots, and reappear for mop-up duty or if/when the round tightens up (think 4v4 basically).

I'll have more info on this later, possibly not this thread/anywhere. :/

Edited by Soy, 11 March 2015 - 11:25 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Ultimatum X, on 11 March 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

Sparing your weapons is a major part of the point.




I find the CT is easier to hit from the front, if you twist and are moving its a much smaller and easier to spread damage.



Please explain to me what the advantage is to a Symmetrical build vs. my Asymmetrical build with regards to:

1) Protecting your weapons.
2) Keeping yourself alive.

I am not sure how you can find this giant CT from a 90degree angle "hard to hit" because it is extremely easy to hit, if you have somewhat decent aim.

Watch soys vid, watch how he can hit way smaller hitboxes very accurately. pilots like him will have 0 trouble hitting a twisted in Novas CT. The side CT of a Nova is as much profile as the entire upper locust. Are you able to hit a locust? if not, well your aim is the issue.

and then we come to your two questions,
When your CT is gone you are dead and your weapons won't work.

It is very much a fact that a very good pilot will not let you protect your weapons, or make you stay alive longer when you twist.

Asymmetrical builds only work on mechs able to efficiently protect the armed side with the unarmed side when twisting in. The Nova is not a mech able to do so. because of shown hitboxes.

you still can twist with the nova it will help to a low degree, because not every opponent always knows this, but on a higher competitive level, it's just pointless. and dedicating an entire side to shield your mech is just not worth to be a "real tactic" unlike on a Centurion, atlas or whatever real twistfriendly mech.
Even further look at the hitbox area between the legs, its also very wide (for whatever reaon) so when your legs face to the opponent he can still fully hit your CT shooting your "balls".

aniviron, on 11 March 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

Have they announced anything about the quirks at all? I can't find a damn thing on these forums anymore, especially not now that the Developer Tracker thread seems to be dead.

That armor spread sounds about right for most mechs, actually.

I fear they gonna give it some heat buffs, which it actually not really needs.
If they only give soem Ct buffs, then not sure poeple will just shoot your sidetrosi off, which are also extremely wide.
But lets see, maybe NVA isn't even amongst those 4 and its MLX, IFR, ADR and somethign else.

I run my nova most of the time with 6cermeds and 6 cersl. because I like having more range. it's also assymetrically, because its then easier to manage the weapongroups. otherwise I would need like 8 weapon groups for fully controlling them. and so i can do thiw with 4. and this build cna not be alphad as Soy ones, because you run into overheat then.

[Soy]

Lemem tell u somethin
i funkin

I ****** house yall newbs

~!drunk soy

[Purger of Man]

Soy, on 10 March 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

I think a cSPL Gargoyle can be a pain in the ass. Maybe one of the only Gargoyles like that?

People need to respect cSPL. This **** is mean.

Also I too struggled feely comfy on Alpine as well, but, it's all just a matter of developing that comfort level regardless of how far/close enemy is, how many, how much exposure, etc... just work through it and you'll be better after the fact.

Da, the Gargoyle/C-R-Arm/A-L-Arm/D-Chassis I believe is required if memory serves me correctly. Also Gargoyle-C isn't available for general consumption yet, so it's that much more of a pain to assemble, +1 Gargoyle wuv

Ps: Also Gargoyle-C arm has +10% energy cooldown quirk, so nova has better damage output than it, so +1 nova

Edited by Purger of Man, 12 March 2015 - 01:48 AM.

[Something Wrong]

I think you and I could have a lot of fun Soy. You in your 8 SPL Nova and me in my 2 LPL 4 MPL 3 SRM6 Battlemaster with an XL 400 engine. If we got behind them, their team wouldn't exist for long.

[Soy]

Get behind the enem and nobod last lng

If you want just fruiend me and lets have somfun.

I'm blackout durnk and will possibly regret his tomorrow but lets do it. You got my wod.

[Soy]

Ok so the reason I suggest acceleration quirks in particular, is because playing ninja style with this mech (which is proper way), you are using seismic a lot. A lot more than most people do.

So the stop-and-start play could benefit from that.

If I could recommend any quick thing about the mech, as a straight quirk buff to please masses, that's what I think it should be.

Armor's fine too, or buff that instead... whatever. I don't think that's the thing that would make most people see a different in it before/after though.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Soy, on 14 March 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

Ok so the reason I suggest acceleration quirks in particular, is because playing ninja style with this mech (which is proper way), you are using seismic a lot. A lot more than most people do.

So the stop-and-start play could benefit from that.

If I could recommend any quick thing about the mech, as a straight quirk buff to please masses, that's what I think it should be.

Armor's fine too, or buff that instead... whatever. I don't think that's the thing that would make most people see a different in it before/after though.

Depends on what they want it to do.

If they want it to be a medium range glass cannon, acceleration/laser duration quirks are definitely nice to have. For this weekend event I have been running my 10 ERML Nova just to see what it feels like now and it makes me wish the laser durations were shorter and my acceleration was better. Heat and armor boosts are secondary in that role as far as I'm concerned. Still it can be a beast at times if you run it like a pack mech. You roll with the pack and capitalize if the opponent ignores you and your blistering alpha; it definitely requires good aim or a bad opponent to make the most of that alpha.

If they want it to be a SPL brawler, armor quirks are a must have and boosted speed (like the Summoner) or boosted SPL range would do wonders for it.

ERPPC jump sniper could probably use some armor quirks as well and then velocity quirks for the ERPPCs (maybe heat as well?).

If they want it to be something else, well they are out of luck unless Endo/FF get unlocked because it isn't going to be able to compete with anything else without insane quirks.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 14 March 2015 - 09:00 PM.

[Soy]

What I'm saying is that armor isn't the issue because you shouldn't be taking a lance on frontally. If it's ilke that, and snowballing against you, this is a hard mech to 'brute force' carry through. Your best would be to fade back kite spread and pick apart. You see what I'm saying? It's plausible to do a can-opener vanguard in a pinch, take out a guy and core another in a 10 sec blaze of glory... but a structure buff won't change that.

On the other hand, if you're playing the mech properly, then you're not gonna be seeing a lot of guys. It's working off of Seismic a lot and stopping and starting would benefit from an accel quirk. It would help you pull out at the last second before cornering into something that was good 5 secs ago, but quickly turned sour, etc. This is where armor is basically not involved at all. This is where a lot of the feast or famine stems from. Being able to get away just quickly enough before your ninja flank is being discovered and checked, turning and getting out after rearing some derp before the cavalry turns round, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is if they want to play quirks towards mech's strengths, then accel is where it would benefit most. If they want to shore up some of the inherent problems with the mechs indirectly (ie scaling), then they can bulwark w/ armor/structure.

Edited by Soy, 14 March 2015 - 09:14 PM.