236 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

operatorZ, on 10 March 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Your solution....take armor off it?

Sorry that's just a nonstarter with most people. TTK is already to low anyway.

If it absolutely had to be nerfed...I mean absof*ckinlutely....I prefer speed nerf to any other you might choose....because I can live with less speed...just not less armor. ������

Plus with the super quirks the IS is getting its really not as OP as it once was so let's just drop it.

My main notion was actually to decrease its heat capacity/dissipation by some amount, impacting the heat efficiency of an already hot 'Mech and thus acting to limit the Wolf's engagement times. Either you dumped guns for more heat sinks to keep cool - thus reducing the machine's alpha potential and overall firepower - or you dealt with the decreased combat time afforded by the heat penalties on the Wolf. Which would preserve the machine as the superb striker and hunter-killer it was always supposed to be while forcing its pilots to be more choosy with their shots and engagements both, since it'd be easier to pressure the Wolf into heat troubles and noticeably harder for Wolves to out-and-out brawl well.

When I suggested this though, I was mostly informed that "it's the Summoner's job to be fast and mobile, not the Timber Wolf's!", and "dude, what's wrong with making the Timber Wolf move like a 75-ton 'Mech instead of a giant metal ballerina?!", and the like. Basically, a bunch of "fuqq yer heet nerfs, I want the stupid Timbergod to move like the heavy 'Mech it is!" crap, despite the fact that the Timber Wolf moves exactly like a heavy 'Mech...that just so happens to have a 375XL in it.

Go figure, eh? Put a monster engine in something and it moves like it has a monster engine in it. I mean damn man, that is some trippy non-Euclidean style logic right there...

[LowSubmarino]

WarZ, on 10 March 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Okay here is the problem no one is seeming to get:

To be fast and agile, it is locked into a HUGE engine. That huge engine means it has a LOT less available tonnage for weapons and ammo. In the end the only truly "high end" builds for the Timber are laser boats.

You can't carry dual ac20, or dual gauss, and have anything more than 3'ish tons of ammo. You can however carry a good assortment of lasers. Lasers which have LONG burn times and are VERY hot. Depending on what lasers you decide to carry and how many you might be able to pack enough heatsinks in to make it viable.

And if you arent a laser boat then you are a mix of weapons like a single large ballistic and a few lasers. All weapon loadouts that the IS can do comfortably and in many cases MUCH better.

What makes the chasis so nice is the speed. You can keep up with most mechs, and move around the battle field more easily. If you are a decent pilot speed is HUGE.

What the whiners dont realize is that the Timber is a very one dimensional mech to be at its best. Otherwise its nothing special short of its speed.

The timberwolf c laservomitter is one of the strongest builds out there. Not only is the build itself deadly, but the timberwolf is incredibly fast and mobile with awesome hitboxes which can even be extended by jjwalking.

The burn time isn't long if you use a double CLPL configuration.

I have tried other builds and some are fun. But nothing beats the sheer horror this setting can unleash. If you can engange at the distances you like - roughly 300 - 600 meters - then you will make short work of anything in your path if you arent too bad.

That thing really is a monster.

When I first got the timbergod I didnt even know what to do with it. I was used to ridge snipers like the stalker 3f or the shadowhawk 2k. Each with ER LL builds.

And because of that one weakness of the timberwolf - it's not a good ridgesniper - I thought 'meehh....whats so great about this mech.' So I ran it with a lot of builds until I came back to a laser build and didnt try to ridge snipe anymore.

And now I couldnt even change the loadout if I wanted to. It would feel wrong.

I have to admit this build destroys almost all other mechs at a distance. The only thing that can be a threat are double gauss builds. But even then you have the advantage of jjwalking. There are some very good shots out there though. The chances against such a sniper are about 50 / 50.

Some stalkers will boat 5 large lasers. They can be a threat too unless you sneak in a few alphas without being shot back at.

Apart from that - and other timberwolfs - nothing can really take you down quickly enough. Theyr either too imobile or dont do enough dmg to be a real threat.

The hitboxes are fantastic. I dont know how often the mech has about 70 ish % armor left and the entire mech is yellow and orange with maybe one component's armor about to get red.

It spreads dmg better than any other mech out there.

Combined with that firepower and its speed + jjwalk it is - in my opinion - the strongest mech (if you have said laser build) in mwo. Not by a small margin.

There are only a few contenders that are competitive on that level but they always have disadvantages in terms of mobility, ammo dependency, jumpjets, hitboxes, XL engines.

I wouldnt like it if the timberwolf was changed but to be fair I have to say that it might be unfair to other players.

What's curious though is that I don't see many timberwolfs. Not at all.

A lot of times I am the only one in my team. Sometimes theres a second but not that often.

[Johnny Z]

This discussion needs to move past if the Cheese Wolf is getting nerfed, to how will it be nerfed.

Profile of a medium
Speed of a medium
Firepower of an assault

It needs to have its missile pods locked.(not my idea) The missile pods are an iconic Timberwolf trait and should be locked. With missile pods locked it will no longer have the profile of a medium but that of a heavy as it should be.

Its speed makes it look a bit silly for a serious 75 ton mech that hits like an assault.(again not my idea)

Nerf the speed and profile and leave the firepower is proper.

I would say nerf the torso twist but thats sort of an iconic TW trait as well. Although the Cheese Crow will probly get a torso twist nerf of legendary proportions. Makes sense to.

Edited by Johnny Z, 11 March 2015 - 12:19 AM.

[Sarlic]

WarZ, on 10 March 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Okay here is the problem no one is seeming to get:

To be fast and agile, it is locked into a HUGE engine. That huge engine means it has a LOT less available tonnage for weapons and ammo. In the end the only truly "high end" builds for the Timber are laser boats.

You can't carry dual ac20, or dual gauss, and have anything more than 3'ish tons of ammo. You can however carry a good assortment of lasers. Lasers which have LONG burn times and are VERY hot. Depending on what lasers you decide to carry and how many you might be able to pack enough heatsinks in to make it viable.

And if you arent a laser boat then you are a mix of weapons like a single large ballistic and a few lasers. All weapon loadouts that the IS can do comfortably and in many cases MUCH better.

What makes the chasis so nice is the speed. You can keep up with most mechs, and move around the battle field more easily. If you are a decent pilot speed is HUGE.

What the whiners dont realize is that the Timber is a very one dimensional mech to be at its best. Otherwise its nothing special short of its speed.

Exactly. People want slower engines to fit more weapons in a fast, agile mech. E.g. whiners want the lock be removed. However i say it's a justified lock.

How can people still justify the Timberwolf? Honestly, it has been broken since it got introduced. The JJ animation fix would be a start.

PitchBlackYeti, on 10 March 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

Well I gotta say that while I love the combined speed and firepower of the TBR, the quirks helped the IS mechs alot. I'm getting consistently better results in my Wubsome 9M and doing as well as good in CN9-AL (little worse after the LPL to LL quirk change). The only viable build seems to be CLPL/CERML vomit (some may say SplatWolf too but IMO SCR does splat better), other are just meh. That said it is still part of the holy trinity but I would argue if it's the BEST.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 March 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

I've finally gotten my Blarg to perform about on par with my Twolf Prime.

BLR-1G:
-3.08 KDR
-1.8 WL
-449 damage per match

TBR-PRIME:
-3.65 KDR
-1.89 WL
-519 damage per match

So far, the only two IS mechs that now match my TImbergod are Blargand Wubshee.

This is exactly destroying the matches and balance in MWO. Because everyone just go build vomit mechs. Both sides are affected now. Don't pull it off as a specialist crap, because it's not.

I have warned people before, they wouldn't listen or i get laughed at. The shift already happened some time ago and it will destroy balance.

Edited by Sarlic, 11 March 2015 - 12:29 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Sarlic, on 11 March 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

This is exactly destroying the matches and balance in MWO. Because everyone just go build vomit mechs. Both sides are affected now. Don't pull it off as a specialist crap, because it's not.

I have warned people before, they wouldn't listen or i get laughed at. The shift already happened some time ago and it will destroy balance.

Err... I've had that Wubshee LONG before clans came out. It's changed once since the Banshees even came out and that was the changing from an XL400 to a STD350.

And the BLARG was four large lasers until the quirks came out and the above build worked out better.

Balance shifted away from 30-35 damage PPFLD poptarts to 40-70 damage PP hitscan boats. So balance shifted to vomit when PGI shifted it into that direction. The community just crunches the numbers and min-maxes towards the most efficient way of killing the enemy.

[Lily from animove]

Gyrok, on 10 March 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

The night gyr would literally break these forums in half with QQ.

LOL! I, for one, welcome our new heavy mech overlords.

No idea why, but NO, its rubbuish, too slow, would get issues hitboxes with a CT dome head, I realyl do not know why everyone thinks this about the night gyr.

[Praehotec8]

Deathlike, on 10 March 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

I don't think you understand the total implications of that.

Yes, you do that on the Timberwolf, but then you'd have to universally apply that to EVERY mech. This doesn't have positive implications for TTK for other mechs.

For instance, the Summoner and Thunderbolt's missile rack are pretty significant. The Thunderbolt for the IS is commonly used to peek and shoot ERPPCs (9S) or IS laservomit (5SS) and you're just making it easier to take down because of that attribute. Even the Summoner that's considered pretty durable torsowise becomes more exposed needlessly.

You should really think about the implications of really bad ideas. It's not the "hunchless" Hunch (everyone will still aim @ the RT of that anyways)... it's making already visible attributions to literally increase the overall hitbox and indirectly reduce TTK.

Nothing good would come out of that idea.

1.) Why would doing this to the TW mean it has to be done to others? It is a game, it can be balanced any way needed. There are not hard and fast rules that absolutely cannot be broken. Sorry, but that is a poor argument against the idea.

2.) Even IF such a change needed to be done, it would not be the end of the world. I am sure the pods could be quirked as needed to be highly damage resistant to allow people to play hidey-hide if that is what is demanded by the people.

Maybe it isn't the optimal suggestion, but it is hardly worse than a lot of the other ideas on here.

[Sarlic]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 11 March 2015 - 12:49 AM, said:

Err... I've had that Wubshee LONG before clans came out. It's changed once since the Banshees even came out and that was the changing from an XL400 to a STD350.

And the BLARG was four large lasers until the quirks came out and the above build worked out better.

Balance shifted away from 30-35 damage PPFLD poptarts to 40-70 damage PP hitscan boats. So balance shifted to vomit when PGI shifted it into that direction. The community just crunches the numbers and min-maxes towards the most efficient way of killing the enemy.

So? That does not make less vomit and dropping HPs over it. Sure, PGI is also at fault using a quirkening scheme while there are better alternative ways. Just because the community thinks vomit =/= balance is not the way to go.

I can only hope PGI encourages more diverse builds insteads of people blatantly dropping HPs for the lelz vomit.

[Kilo 40]

as soon as the Ebon Jaguar shows up, the QQ will shift to that.

[Walluh]

As someone whose pretty much just moved away from the whole holy trinity just because i've gotten sick and tired of the constant crying and whining about them, I wouldn't mind if they were just outright removed. Don't even need a refund, just get rid of them.

[Bullseye69]

Mcgral18, on 10 March 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

While I see your point, you might want to Math again.

Had a brain fart sorry about that I am seeing multiple Storm Crow * 3 and 1 Timber Wolf that what I meant.

[Bleary]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

shame PUGs don't do tactics. Most of these issues only matter when balancing Groups and CW. I like to PUG, but Solo Queue is not the players to balance the game for.

You don't want to balance the game for the majority of its players? I . . .

I mean, I get where you're coming from with this. But when one must choose between "make the game more fun for most people" vs "let competitive groups and those who play the self-described 'only for hardcores' mode have a broader variety of meta builds", I'm not sure the latter can truthfully described as making the game better. The balance might be more real - but if a player doesn't play in a way that lets them see it, then it doesn't actually exist for them. And if it doesn't exist for most of your players, then you're not actually balancing the game.

Edited by Bleary, 11 March 2015 - 02:20 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Evan20k, on 10 March 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

I'm late to the party on this one. I just purchased my very first timberwolf this morning and I really want to know how people justify to themselves that this thing is at all remotely fair? I feel like I have the agility of a medium and the firepower of a 90ton assault in this thing. Maybe I'm just **** with every other mech I've played in comparison, but this thing feels like it has absolutely no drawbacks in a game where each mech has its own strengths and weaknesses. Do you guys think it will be getting some sort of balance adjustments in the coming months?

I hope not. It'll take something away from killing one.

[Skarlock]

Evan20k, on 10 March 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

I'm late to the party on this one. I just purchased my very first timberwolf this morning and I really want to know how people justify to themselves that this thing is at all remotely fair? I feel like I have the agility of a medium and the firepower of a 90ton assault in this thing. Maybe I'm just **** with every other mech I've played in comparison, but this thing feels like it has absolutely no drawbacks in a game where each mech has its own strengths and weaknesses. Do you guys think it will be getting some sort of balance adjustments in the coming months?

It's balanced by the fact you can buy them for cbills now. That's pretty much it. As far as community warfare goes, it's just not balanced. There are some other IS mechs that are really strong in the heavy class, but none are quite as strong as the timberwolf. I just got one myself so I'd be rather upset if they nerfed it hard. Slight nerf I could handle. However, even if they nerf the timby, IS heavies, mediums, and assaults need to be brought up to the level of the stormcrow, timber wolf, and dire wolf. Less used clan mechs also need some love. Especially the Summoner... No one drives those things, and now that I own the clan collection, I see why... Clans should get some love with the wave III release as they finally get a solid light mech.

Edited by Skarlock, 11 March 2015 - 02:25 AM.

[Appogee]

I haven't played Timbies since the day I initially Mastered them (which was remarkably fast - I had a k/d of 9.2 on the S).

It's time for me to try them again - what's the preferred loadout these days?

[Mcgral18]

Lily from animove, on 11 March 2015 - 12:50 AM, said:

No idea why, but NO, its rubbuish, too slow, would get issues hitboxes with a CT dome head, I realyl do not know why everyone thinks this about the night gyr.

Simple, really: MOAR GUNS!!1!

It can have nasty loadouts.

[That Dawg]

while this isn't the whiniest thread I've read in some time, it surely makes the Top Five QQ threads this year.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Just remember, when it comes to criticism of balance mechanics (weapons, mechs, etc...)

If a suggested nerf negatively impacts a player by affecting his/her preffered mech or weapon, the person making the suggestion is a whiner.

If a suggested buff negatively impacts a player by strengthening a mech or weapon that person doesn't use, the person making the suggestion is a noob and needs to learn to play.

Oddly the person making these negative statements doesn't debate the point or offer a counter point, they just call the thread a whiner thread or insult the poster.

Funny isn't it.

[Johnny Z]

That Dawg, on 11 March 2015 - 04:04 AM, said:

while this isn't the whiniest thread I've read in some time, it surely makes the Top Five QQ threads this year.

I dont know. There has been 1 or 2 of these a week regarding the "cheese mode 3" since they came out.

Edited by Johnny Z, 11 March 2015 - 04:24 AM.

[That Dawg]

Johnny Z, on 11 March 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

I dont know. There has been 1 or 2 of these a week regarding the "cheese mode 3" since they came out.

Heres my beef about this, according to MY stats (your mileage may vary) am a very solid- average player, it looks like maybe slightly higher than average...

The BEST balance possible would be achieved thru an ELO or MATCHMAKER that worked.
Period. yes, 'balance' is needed, but WHAT a better battle outcome from the SAME amount of ECM on both sides.
Anyone ever drop into a PUG where there are 3-4 ECM's and you have none?
two lances of timberwolves wont help

And heres the clincher, NO ONE is being stopped from getting their own timberwolf.....
they are great mechs, but so are a dozen others- put me into almost any mech, and I kill, I get damage, I profit...

The low talent whiners are largely responsible for the wild nerfs, buffs, ghost heat back and forth attempts to placate the arses posting threads like this by absurd weekend "events" to take our minds off........maps- optimizing game play for mid level computers- new game modes etc etc

Its THOSE mediocre players who think they are getting killed over and over by MechX, then buy one.....and WHAT?? its not good, it needs buffs....