48 replies to this topic

[Novawrecker]

Tasker, on 11 March 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

How you expect to win game with players who unable to shoot other robot?

He fires his Magic LRMs into da daaaarknesssss

[sdsnowbum]

nehebkau, on 11 March 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

TRAINING INFORMATION FOR NEW PILOTS AND NEW COMMANDERS

You can change your drop zone by moving yourself to a different lance in the COMMAND window in-game.

FOR EXAMPLE
If you are in sulphurous Rift and C2 is camped, your company commander can move people from alpha lance to beta or charlie lance and they will drop in the beta or charlie drop zone, not the C2 alpha drop zone. If you have an alert commander you can greatly reduce the affect of Sulphurous and Boreal camping.

That is all.

I find this very interesting. Can anyone confirm that this works during the match, waiting for a new mech to drop?

Just curious is it possible to take company command if you are that person waiting, switch your own lance, and then give up command after you drop?

Are you switching the dead player out and putting a live player in their place in the doomed drop zone? Then what, let the live player know not to die until the spawn camp is rebuffed?

If this works it is definitely the best suggestion I've seen yet.

[sycocys]

I was only speaking to the one match I've ever dropped with you, and to the often overlooked idea that being aggressive is just firing your weapons at things. It's also controlling enemy locations and firing lanes through your presence, taking point and knowing when providing cover fire to break up an attack on your point man is better than trying to get yourself a kill. I really can't attest to how you play outside of that one match otherwise.

As far as that roll you posted goes only 2 people broke 1k damage which means at least 8 people pretty well didn't support the team as a whole, especially the dude that posted 13 damage with 4 mechs. So if this is how those matches you got rolled back to the drop points went you effectively had 6v12 happening due to the low output and coordination of your team together.

[Deckard Caine Sender]

sdsnowbum, on 11 March 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

I find this very interesting. Can anyone confirm that this works during the match, waiting for a new mech to drop?

Just curious is it possible to take company command if you are that person waiting, switch your own lance, and then give up command after you drop?

Are you switching the dead player out and putting a live player in their place in the doomed drop zone? Then what, let the live player know not to die until the spawn camp is rebuffed?

If this works it is definitely the best suggestion I've seen yet.

I can confirm that it works during the match to change lances/drop zones.

I haven't tried, but I don't think that you retain company command and the ability to move people between lances when you are the dead between drops. But yes, you just swap the dead to Charlie lance if the OpFor holds the C2 hill area. Repeat as needed.

@crustydog For what it is worth, we were *trying* not to spawn kill you. The orders were to allow incoming drops to get their feet/bearings and start moving and firing before you were considered a valid target. In at least 2 of the screen caps that you posted you had moved at least 500 meters and you had lost less than 20% of your armor.

Your team also had an opportunity to re-take the C2 area. At one point we had 8 re-spawning and moving to the Alpha gate. The 4 still inside were below 40% health and we all pulled outside of the Alpha gate to consolidate. If memory serves me correctly, when we pushed back inside only two members of your team had moved to attempt to hold C2.

[nehebkau]

sdsnowbum, on 11 March 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

I find this very interesting. Can anyone confirm that this works during the match, waiting for a new mech to drop?

It works, I use it in pugs to keep them from getting blown to bits.
but you gotta be quick when moving people.

[crustydog]

Tasker, on 11 March 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

You joking, right? Look at scores of team.

13 damage (!)

In fair defense of my fellow pugs, if you look at the first screenshot closely, you can see the one player was very likely disco just after the shooting started - as for the rest, if you see the damage on my mech, with LRMs (the Clans used them also...) you can see that the seven defenders at the gate got rolled as the Clan wave came in.

They died bravely, facing the enemy at the gate. The reason I was in the front at this point is because the rest were still getting off of their drop ships and making their way back.

They did their duty, every single one of them.

[Triordinant]

crustydog, on 10 March 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Can I tell you how much joy I get from having my drop zone camped?

About so much joy, I just lost my wallet.

Amazing how that happens.

Stay out of CW for now. Wait until it's out of Beta and then decide if it's worth spending time and effort on.

[Mystere]

Tarogato, on 10 March 2015 - 07:55 PM, said:

PGI has basically acknowledged that spawn camping is an issue that will be looked at over time, but until then, there are ways to combat it. I suggest you employ them.

Spawn camping is an issue only because players prefer to publicly cry en masse in front of PGI instead of dealing with it using --- oh, I don't know --- this thing called "teamwork". But, publicly and loudly crying is extremely effective, I guess, otherwise people will not constantly do it.

[Davers]

LOADED, on 11 March 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

dropzones are tied to the lance, if for example dropzone alpha (for the alpha lance) is getting pounded, have one of your team take command and switch the pilots who would drop into the Sh!tzone to beta/charlie lance. continue this an no one will drop into thier demise. ofc, this requires one person to keep track of who's dying, but one person out for logistic is by far better then having 12-16 mechs stomped for no reason.

Wow. You would think something like this would have had some kind of official mention. Thanks!

[crustydog]

Deckard Caine, on 11 March 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

@crustydog For what it is worth, we were *trying* not to spawn kill you.

No problem, I'm not mad about you playing the situation that way - that is the tactically correct thing to do. Reverse the situation and I'll farm the hell out of you guys... looking forward to it, in fact:)

I am not mad that the pug team either could not, or did not, realize they had to react to a spawn camp to undo it or get rolled for certain, ( and they were already getting rolled by that point anyway.)

No, my issue is simply that the design itself allows for this scenario to unfold. Not only does it unfold this way, it most frequently unfolds this way as the current default tactic of choice.

The game is broken, and it is not going to fix itself.

I can't fix it, and neither can any other player.

Only PGI can do that.

The fault, if any, rests entirely there.

[crustydog]

Triordinant, on 11 March 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Stay out of CW for now. Wait until it's out of Beta and then decide if it's worth spending time and effort on.

What, and miss my chance for righteous mech-wrecking payback?

"out of Beta...", when the sun rises in the West...

[sycocys]

In fairness to both sides - intentionally designing the game mode/maps in such a way that it actively promotes to nearly requires spawn camping because of the set in lanes is pretty piss poor design.

[Marodeur]

In my opinion the spawn camping as attacker is a eligible tactik, because the attacker have to work for it to get to this point that they really can farm the respawning mechs. And the opposing team know that this will be a problem, if spawn camping will happen. So they have to react on it. If it comes to that point that the attackers are able to start spawn camping, then the defenders have to push them back (better crush them) as soon as possible with the remaining mechs. Mostly the attackers are weak because of the damage the they took during their push into the spawncamp positions, so it should be possible to crush them. And your reinforcement is much closer than the attackers. If they are all in fairly good condition then the defender did many things wrong before. And in this case, they probably loose the game anyway. And with spawn camping the torture is over even sooner.
One easy way for PGI to prevent spawn camping would be, that you can choose not only your mech while droping, you also have to choose your drop/respawn position. For that it would be good to also see the battle grid with the including information, where youre team mates are seeing the enemy.

Edited by Marodeur, 12 March 2015 - 03:21 AM.

[Deckard Caine Sender]

crustydog, on 11 March 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

No problem, I'm not mad about you playing the situation that way - that is the tactically correct thing to do. Reverse the situation and I'll farm the hell out of you guys... looking forward to it, in fact:)

I am not mad that the pug team either could not, or did not, realize they had to react to a spawn camp to undo it or get rolled for certain, ( and they were already getting rolled by that point anyway.)

I look forward to you having the opportunity. You put up a good fight, used position well, and didn't blindly push the corner.

[Alexander Steel]

[sycocys]

I'm not suggesting that we totally end spawn camping - but the design of the current maps direct traffic nearly immediately towards spawn camping rather than the advancing team having to push well in to be able to utilize that tactic. Just really not a good design part of it being there is simply nothing else to do that would spread out the fights and mostly eliminate the problem from the get go.

Hard to argue with the tactic when it's essentially the primary focus of the matches though - secure spawn points, gain active mech lead, secure next spawn point, overrun and complete the match ending objective. The devs really just never seemed to consider that this game could have more strategy injected into it for whatever reason - I can understand simple as can be for standard drops but CW should really be much more involved than just standard drops x4.

[Gyrok]

sycocys, on 12 March 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

I'm not suggesting that we totally end spawn camping - but the design of the current maps direct traffic nearly immediately towards spawn camping rather than the advancing team having to push well in to be able to utilize that tactic. Just really not a good design part of it being there is simply nothing else to do that would spread out the fights and mostly eliminate the problem from the get go.

Hard to argue with the tactic when it's essentially the primary focus of the matches though - secure spawn points, gain active mech lead, secure next spawn point, overrun and complete the match ending objective. The devs really just never seemed to consider that this game could have more strategy injected into it for whatever reason - I can understand simple as can be for standard drops but CW should really be much more involved than just standard drops x4.

To be fair, sulfurous is, by far, the worst offender...

[sycocys]

Gyrok, on 12 March 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

To be fair, sulfurous is, by far, the worst offender...

No doubt, either side gate plops you directly onto their drop zones. I'm not a big fan of it from either side of the attack, really hoping that PGI has something planned to give lances a point of existing which would solve this problem quite a bit I think. If 12 players aren't blobbing directly for a drop zone from the get go the entire match would be much more interesting for both sides and no matter who is dropping whether it be teams or pugs.

[nehebkau]

The hard truth is that there is a counter to spawn-camping -- you need the knowledge and wits to deal with it!

[Barkem Squirrel]

If you are good, you can get a lock, fire with LRMs or Streaks before their feet even hit the ground.

Sulfurous rift is bad, just due to were you have to go to get behind the gun, boreal not as much but it can and does happen. Canyon, well set up on the other side of the valley in cover is what I have been seeing.