347 replies to this topic

[Arafinar]

PewPew, on 30 June 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

All you're saying is that for something to be considered pay to win, it must meet a threshold of advantage. what is this threshold? I would love to see the data collected with in game metrics, but why would PGI disclose that if there was a statistically significant advantage of more money?

sheesh man we are just going by what they said, if ya dont believe em *** did you get a founders package givin em money up front?

[Stray Ion]

PewPew, on 30 June 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

All advantages can be overcome. But the fact that you need to spend more time out effort to do so concedes the fact that it is a significant advantage.

my stalker gets way to much attention. nobody notices my beach legs jenner that I worked so hard on

I thought the Jenner's legs were hairy myself. I was kind of curious.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

PewPew, on 30 June 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

All advantages can be overcome. But the fact that you need to spend more time out effort to do so concedes the fact that it is a significant advantage.

my stalker gets way to much attention. nobody notices my beach legs jenner that I worked so hard on

is that a pun? Why are the Jenner's legs hairy O.o

[PewPew]

A rafinar, let me walk you through some quick critical reasoning.
1. I believe paying will give me an advantage
2. I want advantages over my opponents

[Zayhl]

any advantage at all is going to to require time and effort to overcome otherwise it's not an advantage. So yes you are going to be able to pay for an advantage but it's an earning advantage that doesn't actually transfer into combat advantage,which is I assume what we are really all worried about. That's the essence of P2W if a person can pay RL currency for an outright win in the field, that's a pay to win.Simply having more money and XP available though isn't enough to really shake the tree unless it is near impossible to make enough otherwise.

Edited by Zayhl, 30 June 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[Arafinar]

PewPew, on 30 June 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

A rafinar, let me walk you through some quick critical reasoning.
1. I believe paying will give me an advantage
2. I want advantages over my opponents

shiny, got that no big step ,why ya ranting on about it? nobody is saying it isnt.
but it isnt a big I WIN BUTTON

Edited by Arafinar, 30 June 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[SGT_Stubby]

514yer, on 30 June 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

Wasnt expecting to see an Aes Sedai here O.o

Well call me an addle-brained lummox and cast me into the pit of doom! There are people who are familiar with us even here.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

PewPew, on 30 June 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

A rafinar, let me walk you through some quick critical reasoning.
1. I believe paying will give me an advantage
2. I want advantages over my opponents

3. Why are the Jenner's legs hairy O.o

[Arafinar]

514yer, on 30 June 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

3. Why are the Jenner's legs hairy O.o

Natural Myomar......

[Ubertron X]

Easy rule: Everything that is not helping me winning my current match is not P2W.

So special ammunition, weapons or mechs only available via cash is clearly P2W.

Premium accounts granting C-bill and/or XP boost are clearly not P2W. They can however be misused as an indirect P2W if for example one can not afford to buy or maintain a XL reactor without the appropriate premium account. So the game devs need to tread lightly here.

[PewPew]

It's no win button but combat is about getting marginal advantages over your opponent. A single chess piece, an extra bullet in your revolver, an extra ten pounds on your sparring partner

[Arafinar]

PewPew, on 30 June 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

It's no win button but combat is about getting marginal advantages over your opponent. A single chess piece, an extra bullet in your revolver, an extra ten pounds on your sparring partner

Ok is there anyone in the thread saying it isnt an advantage?

[ElcomeSoft]

Anything that can ONLY be purchased with RL-cash and gives you a clear tactical advantage in the typical game could be termed as a "Pay to Win" item.

For example, World of Tanks has RL-cash ammo and RL-cash consumables which do give a player a very minor advantage in random matches (main exp/credit earners) but that advantage is quite insignificant. In competitive matches, >95% of players use these boosts so the playing field is once again level. IMO, this was a great way of increasing their income generation without affecting the normal, random match which everyone played for their XP and credits.

Boosts like XP and CBills are "pay to progress faster". More experience? Get that perk/weapon/new chassis sooner. More CBills? Buy more weapons/experiment with different loadouts/afford repairs more readily/progress to the next Mech faster.

Nothing at all wrong with the XP and CBill boosters. In fact, I wholeheartedly welcome them.

Edited by ElcomeSoft, 30 June 2012 - 10:23 PM.

[Arafinar]

ElcomeSoft, on 30 June 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Anything that can ONLY be purchased with RL-cash and gives you a clear tactical advantage in the typical game could be termed as a "Pay to Win" item.

There fixed that for ya

[Stray Ion]

Arafinar, on 30 June 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Ok is there anyone in the thread saying it isnt an advantage?

ME, not talking about the MWO but in chess, it depends on where and what that piece is. Extra bullet depends on what the bullet is, 9mm you have to double tap where with a 45acp you do not. Sparing, with certain styles of martial arts that 10lbs can be used against you more than it will help you.

[Arafinar]

Stray Ion, on 30 June 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

ME, not talking about the MWO but in chess, it depends on where and what that piece is. Extra bullet depends on what the bullet is, 9mm you have to double tap where with a 45acp you do not. Sparing, with certain styles of martial arts that 10lbs can be used against you more than it will help you.

ok...thought we were talkin MWO.....my mistake

[Zayhl]

if it's not a win button though it isn't pay to win if you can still out think,out move or out last it within reason then it's still a "fair" advantage. it's like comparing two people working out. the guy using steroids gets there faster sure but the dude doing natural workouts can get to his level with time and effort and there won't be any real difference in fact the person not using the quick method might actually be better off as he had to put actual effort into getting what he earned, of course within reason. using the workout analogy the guy who balloons out to proportions otherwise unreachable won't be able to be caught up to by the other guy because the option literally isn't there. but if Pirahna stick to their guns we won't see discrepancy like that

[Colonel Wolfe]

Considering the rather large player fanbase mechwarrior has, we could safely put this whole topic to bed by just making MWO a subbed MMO and completely get rid of the F2P aspect

I have played quite a few F2P games, Tanks and Pirates mainly, but I have always paid for a subscription, because for one, my time is precious and any xp bonus/cash bonus works in my interest and two, considering that I pay for the game so other people can play it for free, I hope I have an advantage over them.. Simple point, I have no respect for people who play the game for free, NEVER spending a single dime on it, and then they seek to devalue what I spend my hard earned money on... I quit playing WoT because of the constant whining from players who never spend a single dime and in the end they ruined the game for me

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Ubertron X, on 30 June 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

Easy rule: Everything that is not helping me winning my current match is not P2W.

So special ammunition, weapons or mechs only available via cash is clearly P2W.

Premium accounts granting C-bill and/or XP boost are clearly not P2W. They can however be misused as an indirect P2W if for example one can not afford to buy or maintain a XL reactor without the appropriate premium account. So the game devs need to tread lightly here.

Arafinar, on 30 June 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

There fixed that for ya

um they look the same lol

[Arafinar]

Colonel Wolfe, on 30 June 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Considering the rather large player fanbase mechwarrior has, we could safely put this whole topic to bed by just making MWO a subbed MMO and completely get rid of the F2P aspect

I have played quite a few F2P games, Tanks and Pirates mainly, but I have always paid for a subscription, because for one, my time is precious and any xp bonus/cash bonus works in my interest and two, considering that I pay for the game so other people can play it for free, I hope I have an advantage over them.. Simple point, I have no respect for people who play the game for free, NEVER spending a single dime on it, and then they seek to devalue what I spend my hard earned money on... I quit playing WoT because of the constant whining from players who never spend a single dime and in the end they ruined the game for me

And make it TRO only no mods

514yer, on 30 June 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

um they look the same lol

heh the word ONLY was mine