71 replies to this topic

[TyphonCh]

Igorius, on 14 March 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

The Gargoyle was always an odd duck, from TT to MW2 to now. It plays best if you think of it as a faster heavy, rather than an assault, which is a strange role for something so tall. It's basically the Timber Wolf's strange big brother, without any of the adaptability of its little sibling.

The big brother with down syndrome....
I completely agree with the OP. The D variant (I think) is even worse off than the others. No CT hardpoints. It's inferior to the other two. I don't think enough quirks can save this thing... I hate them. And the only reason I upgraded to the top tier of wave 2 to begin with was for the King Crab.
As others have said... I think the only way to make the Gargoyle a 'decent' mech would be to give it a smaller archetype so it moves more like a heavy.

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 14 March 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Back in the meta PPC-Gauss days where the Highlander didn't have the "scarlet quirks", it was pretty durable. Yes, it was used at longer ranges, but it wasn't that bad for brawling (though best with a Standard engine). XL engines on the older meta was actually very usable during that time.

Today... it's just a lost cause. I'll be experimenting, but I'm strictly grinding stuff for the event... so that's likely going to be on the backburner for a bit.

XL made more sense in an era when mechs had to choose between more firepower OR survivability.

The current game has mechs that do not need to choose.

[TheMadTypist]

kapusta11, on 14 March 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Still better than Victor, Highlander, Awesome, Atlas and Battlemaster.

Uh... what?

No. That's flat out wrong. The victors and higlanders I can't really speak to, but if you honestly think awesomes, atlases and battlemasters are somehow worse than the gargoyle, then either you haven't spent much time with the awesomes, atlases, and battlemasters, or you haven't spent much time with the gargoyle. It really is that bad. There are a few builds that can "make it work", but they're still, at best, on par with the mediocre builds for other assaults. It's not impossible to get decent scores, but it is less work to get those kind of results in proper assault 'mechs- yes, even in the awesome.

[Armorine]

Does it pilot like a battle master? I love my and got excited when I saw the gargoyle. Took me a while to learn the battle master. It's not a tanker. It's a uparmored fast heavy

[TheMadTypist]

Armorine, on 14 March 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

Does it pilot like a battle master? I love my and got excited when I saw the gargoyle. Took me a while to learn the battle master. It's not a tanker. It's a uparmored fast heavy

A little, but there are a few points to note-

The Gargoyle has 494 max points of armor, the battlemaster 526. You can use upgrades to get more space for armor in the Battlemasters without sacrificing firepower, not so much in the Gargoyle. Where the battlemaster can protect weapons high up in the side torsoes, the gargoyle puts them all low down in the arms, or (depending on the variant) in the center torso.

The gargoyle, once quirked, runs at 89kph, which is nice, but feels significantly less durable. If you had the patience to get through the battlemaster you might like the gargoyle as well, it really is just an overgrown heavy. The prime is out as a trial right now, so you can find out how it drives that way. That may include a painful discovery, but take heart- the stock prime loadout is significantly more terrible than the actual performance you can get out of the chassis with energy hardpoints.

[kapusta11]

Armorine, on 14 March 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

Does it pilot like a battle master? I love my and got excited when I saw the gargoyle. Took me a while to learn the battle master. It's not a tanker. It's a uparmored fast heavy

Firepower wise it loses to some Battlemaster builds, but it has a short facetime because of high speed and a shield side because of clan XL engine. I suggest using 6xCMPL build.

Edited by kapusta11, 14 March 2015 - 11:46 AM.

[Creovex]

LBX20 + Sml and hit and run like a bandit..

[Ted Wayz]

It is getting quirks. Maybe wait until after that and pass judgment.

I don't expect every mech to be great. No one should. And it is even harder to judge mechs because currently they all have the same role. That was not the intent of Battletech and that is why some of the mechs appear to be lacking.

If you don't like a mech there are over 200 others to choose from. GLHF

[STEF_]

Ultimatum X, on 14 March 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

The 4 CERMLAS + Gauss is solid at mid-range, that's what I was playing in the match in my sig.

I just leave this here....with a cerml more...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...928975a1597f440

....and ecm ninja.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 14 March 2015 - 12:15 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

stock lay out sucks

its a pulse laser mech


Its far from unplayable though
GAR-PRIME(I) 39 18 21 0.86 35 25 1.40 13,013 58,425 04:22:25 GAR-A 35 21 12 1.75 37 21 1.76 11,301 57,004 04:01:58 GARGOYLE GAR-D 38 14 24 0.58 37 27 1.37 13,020 57,556 04:20:50

Edited by Cathy, 14 March 2015 - 12:15 PM.

[Ultimax]

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 March 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

I just leave this here....with a cerml more...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...928975a1597f440

....and ecm ninja.

Yes we know dude, we're talking about the gargolye and gargoyle builds.

[TheCobra]

Ted Wayz, on 14 March 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

It is getting quirks. Maybe wait until after that and pass judgment.

I don't expect every mech to be great. No one should. And it is even harder to judge mechs because currently they all have the same role. That was not the intent of Battletech and that is why some of the mechs appear to be lacking.

If you don't like a mech there are over 200 others to choose from. GLHF

Well, I got this mech as part of wave II. And I think every mech should be on par with the rest of its weight class.

I think that quirks can't save it, it needs some model changes, currently you have to expose a huge portion of your body just to be able to return fire.

[STEF_]

Ultimatum X, on 14 March 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

Yes we know dude, we're talking about the gargolye and gargoyle builds.

Mine was an indirect comment to any Garg builds.

Not unplayable, but any build can be made better in other mechs.

[Ultimax]

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 March 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

Mine was an indirect comment to any Garg builds.

Not unplayable, but any build can be made better in other mechs.

You put up a similar build from what is the SECOND BEST heavy mech in the entire game.

Welcome to the magic of Omni-pods, we already knew this at the onset of this thread.


The OP is asking for help with his Gargoyle.

You can contribute and try to help, or you can be obtuse and post hellbringer builds we all knew were available.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 14 March 2015 - 12:57 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Ultimatum X, on 14 March 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

You put up a similar build from what is the SECOND BEST heavy mech in the entire game.

Welcome to the magic of Omni-pods, we already knew this at the onset of this thread.


The OP is asking for help with his Gargoyle.

You can contribute and try to help, or you can be obtuse and post hellbringer builds we all knew were available.

Or we can hope that the quirks make the 80 ton mech the size of a 100 ton mech, the speed of a Heavy mech, and the firepower of a Medium mech make it worthwhile.


It can be beaten by the third best heavy mech in the game (soon to be Fourth) in just about every regard.



Presently, some builds aren't Terribad.

• 6MPLs
  
• 6SPLs, LPL
  
• Gauss+ Your choice of lasers

The extra 6E arm allows for boating of small lasers, so instead of being a worse Loki you can become a worse Nova.

[Brody319]

1 LPL 6 SPLS
2 ERLL 4 MLs
8 SPL
2 LPL 4 MLs
2 ERPPC
1 AC20 (4 tons of ammo) 3 MLs
1 LB-X20 (4 tons of ammo) 3 MLs

[Creovex]

Ultimatum X, on 14 March 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

You put up a similar build from what is the SECOND BEST heavy mech in the entire game.

Welcome to the magic of Omni-pods, we already knew this at the onset of this thread.


The OP is asking for help with his Gargoyle.

You can contribute and try to help, or you can be obtuse and post hellbringer builds we all knew were available.

I can't make the OP NOT SUCK in Gargoyles.... he is the pilot and responsible party.

[charov]

Unplayable?
It's sub-par indeed but it's well far from being useless. It's just more skill intensive than the crow and the tw.

Try the Gar-D with GR+3t, 2xER ML in ct and 4x ER SL in the arm. Keep the distance in the early game, than close in and try to tank as much as possibile. I have 2.46 KDR and ~475 avg damage. Nothing impressive, but not unplayable at all.

[Brody319]

Guys guys. I'm ******* super cereal right now. There is a reason I always bring up the 1 LPL 6 SPL build, Its amazing.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6c78f4c3ad89cb9

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 14 March 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

Or we can hope that the quirks make the 80 ton mech the size of a 100 ton mech, the speed of a Heavy mech, and the firepower of a Medium mech make it worthwhile.

Unfortunately this game's balance is consistently hindered by legacy carry overs from TT/BT history that PGI seems reluctant to change.





The Gargoyle is faster than most IS heavy mechs, just not clan Heavies.



I've updated my mech size thread, it appears tall mechs are made "huge" for collision purposes. Feel free to challenge Russ on twitter about it.