58 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Green, I find the lasers to be a wash between the sides, Clan gets better range, slightly more damage, for much higher heat, lower ghost heat cap, much more ghost heat linking and longer burn times.

The range though is really a non issue for me since I've gone IS, I have no problems getting into face hugging range, with taking little to no damage on the way in, only to kill the clan mech. Just have to use the map to my advantage.

[Evan20k]

I find it fascinating how much mental gymnastics dedicated clan players do to convince themselves that clan energy weaponry isn't outright superior to IS energy weapons.

[Nayru]

One problem is there's a clash between the faceburst up-close and cover-humping long range 'doctrines' at the moment, and the particular clan laser we've been talking about here is generally bad in either scenario (should be good at long range, but as the 1.5s burn time ticks off, the probability of getting hit by gauss/ppc approaches 1).

[KraftySOT]

Yeah I think youre just bad or playing with bads.

If the mech can turn around, acquire you, and hit the location they want in 1.5 seconds, you picked the wrong time to pop out, and the wrong target to shoot at.

The goods, generally are doing it like fighter pilots. If you never see me, you cant shoot back. The object is to kill you from a place where you cant react or return fire. If youre playing peekaboo trading hits. Youre bad.

The CERLLs damage at range is good enough that it drastically increases the number of places you can be and targets you can pick from.

If you want to brawl, get pulse and tac.

[Nayru]

KraftySOT, on 14 March 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

But really, who tries to brawl with ER larges?

We're all aware of the 'pop out, hit target, don't get hit back' facet of the meta, but anyone who isn't bad -will- gauss you before 1.5s + backing into cover action completes.

Which is completely irrelevant to the thread's subject, that IS/clan larges aren't really overpowered.

Edited by Nayru, 14 March 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[Wintersdark]

DaZur, on 14 March 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

Comprehend it "yes"... Acknowledge it as significant deficit... "no".

It IS a significant deficit... but Clan lasers are so much better otherwise, it more than makes up for it.

but seriously, even as a clanner, it's just ridiculous to cry about IS using too many lasers. Seriously.

The ONLY case where IS Lasers compete with Clan Lasers is when they are heavily quirked; our ERML's are pretty damn close and 1t/1s.

God knows, I'm sure the IS teams we face really wish we'd use something other than lasers.

But you absolutely can't complain about IS teams using too many lasers, that's just... it's just absurd. We've been vomiting lasers pretty much exclusively for ages.

Edited by Wintersdark, 14 March 2015 - 12:44 PM.

[Shatara]

Anyone who thinks 'Clan range advantage' is a thing that exists, has never seen NS (or any other competent IS outfit) on Boreal.

"Don't peek. Peek and you're dead. Get in cover. Make them come to us. And Don't. Peek."

Without quirks, the IS and Clan ERLLs are actually pretty comparable; they do their damage at almost the exact same rate, with the Clans' extra damage being done in the extra quarter second of burn. The clan laser is better in weight and range.

Quirks break this. IS mechs get 10% to 25% bonus to range, putting the ERLL at 704-800m optimal. By investing seven tons in a TarComp, the clans can get a range bonus of their own...a whopping 7.5%, putting their ERLL almost at par at 795.5m, and completely negating the weight advantage. IS quirks also usually give a bonus to duration as well, further pushing their burn time advantage. And IS can fire 3 ERLL without ghost heat, while the clans can only fire 2.

I'm not saying clan laservomit isn't good, but IS owns the extreme range bracket.

[Burktross]

Shatara, on 14 March 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Anyone who thinks 'Clan range advantage' is a thing that exists, has never seen NS (or any other competent IS outfit) on Boreal.

"Don't peek. Peek and you're dead. Get in cover. Make them come to us. And Don't. Peek."

Without quirks, the IS and Clan ERLLs are actually pretty comparable; they do their damage at almost the exact same rate, with the Clans' extra damage being done in the extra quarter second of burn. The clan laser is better in weight and range.

Quirks break this. IS mechs get 10% to 25% bonus to range, putting the ERLL at 704-800m optimal. By investing seven tons in a TarComp, the clans can get a range bonus of their own...a whopping 7.5%, putting their ERLL almost at par at 795.5m, and completely negating the weight advantage. IS quirks also usually give a bonus to duration as well, further pushing their burn time advantage. And IS can fire 3 ERLL without ghost heat, while the clans can only fire 2.

I'm not saying clan laservomit isn't good, but IS owns the extreme range bracket.

In the ER LL category, at least. Small lasers and medium lasers still remain undisputed. The only thing that came close was the locust 1E's small lasers with quirks + modules, but that's long gone now.

[Kenyon Burguess]

Ajtexaskilla32, on 14 March 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Every time i go in to a match for CW all i see on IS mech is Large lasers on every single mech that i notes that not how u play mechwarrior it is unfair to pugs as well as ppl that are in clan mechs something need to be done about this now, how can u win a match if u have to keep going thru this for every match that i play are anyone that plays CW everyday because ppl will just stop playing CW in all.

weird, that's how you play table-top battletech. that's also how people played MechWarrior 1-4. now, that's how you play MWO. you bring long range weapons to the fight and wear your enemy down before they can get to you. currently that's not just large lasers, but gauss, erppc, and ac 5s too. personally I like the erppc because its oddly soft glowing light attracts clanners to watch it slowly drift into their face. must be some moth dna the scientist caste slipped in.

Edited by Geist Null, 14 March 2015 - 02:59 PM.

[Rossario x Vampire]

Ajtexaskilla32, on 14 March 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Every time i go in to a match for CW all i see on IS mech is Large lasers on every single mech that i notes that not how u play mechwarrior it is unfair to pugs as well as ppl that are in clan mechs something need to be done about this now, how can u win a match if u have to keep going thru this for every match that i play are anyone that plays CW everyday because ppl will just stop playing CW in all.

[Richard Warts]

@ OP

p.s.: Nice troll thread

Edited by Tabu 73, 14 March 2015 - 03:13 PM.

[Graugger]

Another Gauss / LRM / PPC boater complaining that another weapon has the potential of being a threat at a modest range just like the Guassmasters complained about AC/2s back in Beta.

-.-

Probably a JJ Sniperwhale at that.

[Fire for Effect]

let me sum it up:

mi mi mi mi mimi mim mi mi mi mi mi mi mimi mim mi mimi mi mi mi mimi mim mi mi
enemy shoots back
mi mi mi mi mimi mim mi mi mi mi mi mi mimi mim mi mimi mi mi mi mimi mim mi mimi mi mi mi mimi mim mi mi mi mi mi mi mimi mim mi mimi mi mi mi mimi mim mi mi
stop that I cannot win easily enough

[Kiiyor]

Corbenik, on 14 March 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

In war the MWO forums there are no unfair tactics winning whining is everything .

FTFY

[Corbenik]

Kiiyor, on 14 March 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

FTFY

that too :X

[ROSS-128]

What'd you say? I can't hear you over all this wub.

Seriously though there's a reason Clan lasers have the heat and burn time they do. Got to have something to offset their advantages in weight, slots, range, and damage. That's a lot of advantages.

[stjobe]

E Rommel, on 14 March 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

Why does that... that thing have six fingers on each hand?

3D modeler drunk on the job? QA asleep at the wheel?

[Widowmaker1981]

Evan20k, on 14 March 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

I find it fascinating how much mental gymnastics dedicated clan players do to convince themselves that clan energy weaponry isn't outright superior to IS energy weapons.

I find it fascinating how some people dont understand that burn time and heat per damage are the 2 most important stats for lasers. The IS LPL is the best laser in the game imo (and i have about 4x as many games in IS mechs as clan)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 14 March 2015 - 04:49 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Nayru, on 14 March 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

But really, who tries to brawl with ER larges?

60% of the player base.

You people seem to keep thinking youre all good and everyone else is too. Its like everything else in the world. The vast majority of people are bad at it. A few are good at it. Fewer still are great at it. A handful of people are masters at it.

Nothing that happens outside of that handful of people, matters. Nothing you say, do, play, log off, or whine about it, no matter how bad your gundams are designed, matters. This is how the tiers were set up, this is how quirks were set up.

This is why you have not one, but many different distinct "Inner Sphere Large Lasers".

You have the one you can put on a locust with a 45% greater range. You have the one that has no quirks. You have the one with 25% of its heat removed, removing ghost heat effectively on the LL, you have the smaller 12.5% Large Laser. You have the one with cooldown modules. You have the one with range modules and quirks. You have the cool down quirks not always with the range quirks, or the burn time quirks.

Go ahead. Whine about large lasers more.

Im sure theyre riiiiiight about to change them. You just have to whine a little louder.

Sorry im in a bad mood lately, but you people are pathetic. Its like watching people on the Monday after the superbowl. You dont play football. You never did. You have no idea what youre talking about. Leave it to the professionals.

There is no "best laser". What there is, is situations. The more a situation is shared by the majority of players, the more the most effective weapon in that situation will be used, and thus be "meta".

Without even changing the weapon stats, other changes, can 'dethrone' certain weapons as meta.

While statistically the clan weapons are better, they are not the best weapons in every situation for a variety of factors, and if you think only burn time and heat for damage are the most important factors...

You.

Are.

Bad.

[KraftySOT]

Map design, is far more affecting of the 'large laser' ******** midget pillow fight debate, than either burn time, or heat for damage.

You only see people hate on a few builds with a few specific quirks, at a specific type of situation, in a specific game mode.