625 replies to this topic

[Amardez]

CHH Badkarma, on 16 March 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

Clan quirks are laughable. Couple with TCs that scale terrible I am starting to feel like we will soon be fighting with one hand behind our backs.

PGI, I know russ said he would not do it, but at least run some tests with your "comp" units before dismising it. Try giving clans release day power and having us drop 8 vs 12 IS. I know it is not a proper star, but it give IS the weight they want and clans a chance for honor. Best of all, no silly quirks needed. Plus, it is a nod to lore that would go a long way in the game. IS numbers vs a technically superior enemy. Try it before you blow it off.

It works in table top games and I would be willing to give up my time on the test server to try it playing either side, at least if it is tried you can then say with certainty that is isn't going to work even try 10 v 12. I get a little dismayed when things like that are dismissed with lines like nobody wants to play on the side of the fodder .... whey the heck not you would just need to tweak the rewards I have no issues with dying like that as i know what i am getting myself into.

Clan have lost their flavor and to keep balance the formulas used in the past are not working so give other things a try. The most powerful war-machines that were winning outmatched fights with ease are not losing 1 v 1 fights to the is which is not impossible but should be a with the IS pilot can be proud of not I am so quirked up i am like a body builder on steroids going to have a short life but it will be in the fast lane.

[Amardez]

aniviron, on 16 March 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

To be fair, the Summoner wasn't that great in the tabletop game either. I just PGI just managed a faithful port of the construction rules after all, to the detriment of the game.

It looked bad on the stat sheets yeah but faithful would have required real pods not fixed mounts. There were other mechs they could have picked but it was a great mech in most of the previous computer games which is where the bulk of players seem to be getting their experience from and may have been a better reference point the the TT as they have already made the transition to electronic.

[aniviron]

Amardez, on 16 March 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

It works in table top games and I would be willing to give up my time on the test server to try it playing either side, at least if it is tried you can then say with certainty that is isn't going to work even try 10 v 12. I get a little dismayed when things like that are dismissed with lines like nobody wants to play on the side of the fodder .... whey the heck not you would just need to tweak the rewards I have no issues with dying like that as i know what i am getting myself into.

About six months ago, PGI & NGNG organized a weekend test to try out 10v12. I showed up, we played, it was a lot of fun, very intense- after a round, players would swap sides and the people who were playing clan played IS and vice versa. It worked, pretty much everyone agreed that this would balance things out. After a few rounds, the groups who were dropping would swap out players and go again.

The problem was, sometime between the announcement of the event and the actual event, PGI decided they weren't going to do 10v12 anyway, so our feedback was relegated to an informal hour-long chat on TS.

From the perspective of balancing an individual match, 10v12 worked nicely. PGI's objection was that having 10v12 would mean admitting a clan mech was 1.2 times as good as an IS mech, which would mean everyone who plays to win would flock to the mechs which PGI itself acknowledged as better. I do think that's a fair point- it's hard to say what the player base would have done, but as of yet I have not seen anyone give a real solution to the fact that players are going to gravitate to the mechs that make them as individuals do the best.

[CHH Badkarma]

aniviron, on 16 March 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

About six months ago, PGI & NGNG organized a weekend test to try out 10v12. I showed up, we played, it was a lot of fun, very intense- after a round, players would swap sides and the people who were playing clan played IS and vice versa. It worked, pretty much everyone agreed that this would balance things out. After a few rounds, the groups who .were dropping would swap out players and go again.

The problem was, sometime between the announcement of the event and the actual event, PGI decided they weren't going to do 10v12 anyway, so our feedback was relegated to an informal hour-long chat on TS.

From the perspective of balancing an individual match, 10v12 worked nicely. PGI's objection was that having 10v12 would mean admitting a clan mech was 1.2 times as good as an IS mech, which would mean everyone who plays to win would flock to the mechs which PGI itself acknowledged as better. I do think that's a fair point- it's hard to say what the player base would have done, but as of yet I have not seen anyone give a real solution to the fact that players are going to gravitate to the mechs that make them as individuals do the best.

Thank you for that info. I was not aware they tried 10v12. I thought 8v12 mainly to give IS players a larger tonnage base to use and less of a leg to stand on if QQing started.

Sadly, I fear that PGI surfers from something along the lines of a "stay the course" mentality even though it might work will to make these changes and prevent the need for constant quirks

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 16 March 2015 - 08:55 PM.

[Em3r4ld]

No KFX quirks?

[CHH Badkarma]

S204STi, on 16 March 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

So much butthurt from people who can't understand iterative changes...

I mean I guess I understand. If I paid so much money to easy mode, I'd be pissed if everything in my stable wasn't dominant, too.

We are trying to be constructive here, atleast the last few comments. Please do not try to derail it

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 16 March 2015 - 09:34 PM.

[Amardez]

aniviron, on 16 March 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

About six months ago, PGI & NGNG organized a weekend test to try out 10v12. I showed up, we played, it was a lot of fun, very intense- after a round, players would swap sides and the people who were playing clan played IS and vice versa. It worked, pretty much everyone agreed that this would balance things out. After a few rounds, the groups who were dropping would swap out players and go again.

The problem was, sometime between the announcement of the event and the actual event, PGI decided they weren't going to do 10v12 anyway, so our feedback was relegated to an informal hour-long chat on TS.

From the perspective of balancing an individual match, 10v12 worked nicely. PGI's objection was that having 10v12 would mean admitting a clan mech was 1.2 times as good as an IS mech, which would mean everyone who plays to win would flock to the mechs which PGI itself acknowledged as better. I do think that's a fair point- it's hard to say what the player base would have done, but as of yet I have not seen anyone give a real solution to the fact that players are going to gravitate to the mechs that make them as individuals do the best.

There are always player who flock to the most powerful, but making decision purely based on them robs people who like things like Lore and setting some of the main reason that I and many others I play with tried this game to start with. Clan by lore are just better no if buts or maybes, this game is not balanced and it swings one way and then the other 10 v 12 would have been ok I play other games like this not giant robots but FPSish games where there is clearly a weaker side and it works out that people who want to play play both sides as the waits to get in with the better side are always very long, so if you want a game you play both. I don't think it would be as bad as PGI is assuming and a test on things like this should have been a few weeks not a weekend though i am kinda sad i missed that.

There are still other way to encourage players to go a weaker faction cheaper gear more rewards etc. none of which would take away from the game as a whole.

[CHH Badkarma]

"There are still other way to encourage players to go a weaker faction cheaper gear more rewards etc. none of which would take away from the game as a whole. "

yup, like the bribery errr I mean rewards adjustments the PGI does for faction rewards. More cbills to the underdog works, as well as much more in the way of rewards for permcons to discourage faction jumping and reward fidelity.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 16 March 2015 - 09:39 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Russ Bullock, on 16 March 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

Remember the Clan omnipod amounts are low because players can stack with other pods

Sorry Russ but I find this quite shocking to be frank...

These are considered some of the worst mechs in game.
T5's pretty much for all.

And 1 to 5% bonuses on most of these mechs (ie adder) when including matching set of quirks is a bit shocking...

It makes me think T3 mechs will get negatives, T1's will have negative 20%'s while T4's get nothing...

it really shakes my faith.

MW: O has been the game I can never be mad at, it was amazing even when there was only 3 maps and 1 game mode with a hand full of mechs. It was the game i found impossible to rage at.

but these past few weeks have made me very concerned..

I do hope that this is just a 'test' to see how well the clan mechs that got quirks respond to this and to increase it gradually...

(PS if you are reading this... I think heat reduction for the Adder prime would be much more appreciated then fire rate )

[Nightshade24]

Em3r4ld, on 16 March 2015 - 09:19 PM, said:

No KFX quirks?

kitfox is considered the current best light clan mech in game and is the "half meta" mech...

Half meta = hellbringer (ECM) and kitfox (ECM
Meta meta = Stormcrow and Timberwolf
Semi meta = direwolf, ice ferret, and warhawk.

[Amardez]

Nightshade24, on 16 March 2015 - 09:57 PM, said:

kitfox is considered the current best light clan mech in game and is the "half meta" mech...

Half meta = hellbringer (ECM) and kitfox (ECM
Meta meta = Stormcrow and Timberwolf
Semi meta = direwolf, ice ferret, and warhawk.

what is the difference between half and semi meta ?

[Nightshade24]

Mcgral18, on 16 March 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

where are the leg medium lasers?

[Nightshade24]

Amardez, on 16 March 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

what is the difference between half and semi meta ?

In my books? half meta are mechs that are taken by top comp players in a 'few' situations (in this situation, zombie/ ECM boating)

Semi meta is a mech that is kinda popular but not in a meta basis or the meta players way of being 'casual' and mechs often blamed as a meta by people (these day mainly IS whiners) as the "OP" assault. or what have you.

In this context I put it up there for mainly laughs and giggles. As semi and half are kinda nearly the same thing in this situation.

[Mad Strike]

Nightshade24, on 16 March 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

where are the leg medium lasers?

That would be interesting. Malthus Summoner on the TV show was a laser vomit........the original laser vomit XD

[Telmasa]

I just feel like there wouldn't be as much outrage over 1-5% quirks shown here, if the IS mechs weren't simultaneously getting (or already have) quirks ranging from 25-50%...that's a HUGE power gap there.

[Nightshade24]

strikebrch, on 16 March 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

That would be interesting. Malthus Summoner on the TV show was a laser vomit........the original laser vomit XD

Yep!

So was the Bounty Hunters Timberwolf.

4 medium pulse,2 large pulse, (light tag, light AP, and targeting computer)

Just like normal laser vomit before the first clan nerfening.

[Mad Strike]

Nightshade24, on 16 March 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

Yep!

So was the Bounty Hunters Timberwolf.

4 medium pulse,2 large pulse, (light tag, light AP, and targeting computer)

Just like normal laser vomit before the first clan nerfening.

what do you mean with light tag?

[ThrashInc]

CHH Badkarma, on 16 March 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

Clan quirks are laughable. Couple with TCs that scale terrible I am starting to feel like we will soon be fighting with one hand behind our backs.

PGI, I know russ said he would not do it, but at least run some tests with your "comp" units before dismising it. Try giving clans release day power and having us drop 8 vs 12 IS. I know it is not a proper star, but it give IS the weight they want and clans a chance for honor. Best of all, no silly quirks needed. Plus, it is a nod to lore that would go a long way in the game. IS numbers vs a technically superior enemy. Try it before you blow it off.

They should do 8/10 vs. 12, with release balancing for clan, sans IS quirks, for CW.

Public queue should probably remain as it is to keep the matchmaker only having to balance Elo.

Plenty of games have different sets of stats and abilities, timers, etc, for their PvP game modes. Treat CW as such. You let people who enjoy the lore enjoy the lore. You let people who like to be the underdog be the underdog. You let people who want to faceroll in TBRs faceroll in TBRs.

[Ceefood]

Adder is still stuck with that stupid flamer - I was hoping this quirk changes meant 1 energy slot now available but no still the stupid flamer

[Sarlic]

FupDup, on 16 March 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

If they actually do iterate on it often (like once each month or two months) then that would be kewl.

But if there's still huge time gaps between each iteration, then we wouldn't have really gained much in the end...

Do you even know how data analytics works? I guess not.