625 replies to this topic

[Telmasa]

My 2 cents tossed in here:

I wish that the Inner Sphere quirks had been implemented the same way. I imagine you'll be going back and doing more passes and so on as time goes by...it's just the key words there are "as time goes by" - meaning in the meantime, we players still play with the 25-50% weapon buff'd mechs that just blow competition away, literally.

I do admit I don't understand the existence of quirks that are less than 5% - but to be fair I don't think quirks more than 12.5% (so 25% if they stack) make sense either.

[FORGE88]

Remove all quirks already lol you cannot try make old tech stack up against new tech. end of.

Edited by FORGE88, 20 March 2015 - 05:26 PM.

[Summon3r]

FORGE88, on 20 March 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Remove all quirks already lol you cannot try make old tech stack up against new tech. end of.

this is a good point, if you want a semi balanced mechwarrior game then advance the time line a little.... as much as i like to see the AWS a viable mech in the game it is 400 year old tech vs 50-75 year old clan tech. barring this it will be non-stop QQ from both sides as it is now while one side is continually nerfed and one side buffed..... that or start taking the topic of more IS mechs then clan mechs on the field seriously which obviously means a rewind in quirks/nerfs.

[Ultimax]

ADR-Prime
+15% CERPPC velocity is decent
+CERPPC CD is not, mech already runs too hot with 2 of them - like ludicrously hot, on top of that +4% is functionally irrelevant.
If it's going to run CERPPCs, even just one of them because 2 is basically untenable, it needs -heat.

Ultimately the stock load out is awful. You can not run 2x CERPPCs with only ELEVEN Dual Heat sinks.

On top of this, the Engine is a 210.
That means it only has 8 Built in DHS.
Built in DHS have higher dissipation rates than DHS you add.

This is why this mech, and build, desperately needs -heat gen.


ADR-A
These weapon quirks are functionally useless.
-4% missile spread is irrelevant, even if you combine omni-pods for 4 missles and nothing else.
-2% Laser Duration is literally un-noticable in game, even if we combine with ADR-D LA, we only get -4%
CERMLAS = 1.15s duration
-4%
CERMLAS = 1.04s

A whole tenth of a second.

ADR-D
This one has +missile velocity, but only +4%.
Velocity is good, but you can't get enough value even if you combine pods from the A & D here.
It needs to be all -spread or all +velocity or the numbers need to be way higher.
Ballistic CD is irrelevant, and is basically a joke build for the Adder.


ADR-B
More ballistic cooldown, already covered.
Energy/Laser cooldown, which could be interesting, but generally speaking not enough to matter and we get back to the heat issues.





This is a Light Mech, 35 tons.

It is physically quite large compared to other 35 tonners.

It is shaped poorly with arms that stick out and legs that are easy to shoot.

It has no JJs, no ECM and is limited to a maximum of 4 usable hardpoints.


The quirks simply do not go anywhere near far enough to mitigate all of these negative attributes.

[Navid A1]

Ultimatum X, on 21 March 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

...
ADR-A
These weapon quirks are functionally useless.
-4% missile spread is irrelevant, even if you combine omni-pods for 4 missles and nothing else.
-2% Laser Duration is literally un-noticable in game, even if we combine with ADR-D LA, we only get -4%
CERMLAS = 1.15s duration
-4%
CERMLAS = 1.04s

A whole tenth of a second.
...

Actually 0.96 x 1.15 = 1.104

so a whole 0.046 seconds.

You know what is funny?... The server ticks at 1/20 second or 0.05 s (i think). This means that the game DOES NOT EVEN SEE that.

So.. one more time... when should we expect an explanation behind these lol numbers?... yup 4% cooldowns... or 4% MG range (can you believe this one?... 4% MG range on summoners...with both ballistic torsos)

[LordKnightFandragon]

I just hope on Warhawk quirk day, it gets a nice shiny PPD boost to it's PPCs....

LA: CERPPC PPD +25%
RA: CERPPC PPD +25%

total, 50%, end result? a 15/15 CERPPC

Then, on those same arms,

LA: CERPPC VElocity: +10%
RA: CERPPC VElocity: +10%

Then it has some 1200+m/s.....then it will be a decent loadout. But right now, yikes...they fire alot, they make alot of noise, but nothing really happens on the other end, 600 some damage into a mech, 1 kill, whihc was an AFK jager with an XL lol. several volleys even into the back of a Trebutchet or something, nothing lol,.

[Andi Nagasia]

i afraid the Nova will lose its Energy Heat Gen Quirk and probably get faster Energy cool-down

[Dagorlad13]

Andi Nagasia, on 21 March 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

i afraid the Nova will lose its Energy Heat Gen Quirk and probably get faster Energy cool-down

If that happens, PGI might as well just remove the Nova from the game.

[Richgar]

Gargoyle needs real quirks. There's no reason to use it. Can't believe I spent 15mil on it... I feel so dumb

Edited by Richgar, 21 March 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

im waiting for the Next Quirk Pass,
i feel the ADR IFR SMN & GAR will get more meaning full weapon Quirks,
and i think the MLX NVA MDD & WHK will be next to get Acel/decel turn ect Quriks,(and sucky weapon Quirks)
i hope im wrong but i have a feeling

[Dagorlad13]

Richgar, on 21 March 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

Gargoyle needs real quirks. There's no reason to use it. Can't believe I spent 15mil on it... I feel so dumb

I am having fun in mine, can't wait for my Executioner.

[EAP10]

IronClaws, on 21 March 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

I am having fun in mine, can't wait for my Executioner.

Same! The cauldron born also looks beast!

Edited by EAP10, 22 March 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[EAP10]

While everyone waits for viable summoner quirks, I have a few builds I play on mine for people.

SMN-PRIME
RA: 2×C-ERPPC
LA: 2×C-ERSML
LT: 1×C-SSRM6
This build is actually great for jumpsniping, and the twin ppcs deliver quite a punch. The smalls are for backup and the ssrm is mainly for lights.

SMN-B
RA: 1× C-SRM6 1×C-SSRM6
LA: 1× C-SRM6 1×C-SSRM6
LT: 1× C-SSRM6
CT: 1× CLAP
This build is great fun for pugs, despite having to get up close to your targets. Use cover a lot and jumpjet above them. The active probe allows you to lock on the ecm mechs, but you can remove it and a ton of ammo and put in artemis.

(The summoner d I just keep the way it is, but you can change it to:)
SMN-D
RA: 2×C-ERMEDL
LA: 2×C-ERMEDL
RT: 1×C-GAUSS RIFLE
This build is great at range, but lacks in ammo. You could switch to two medls and two smlls for an extra tin of ammo. Use cover well in this build, and remember your low slung arms.

Summoners just require a lot of love to work well. I wish all you summoner pilots luck in the metagame.

[LordKnightFandragon]

IronClaws, on 21 March 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

If that happens, PGI might as well just remove the Nova from the game.

What shoud happen is the ST with those locked DHS should be where there is -5% Heat generation and 2.5% Heat dissipation quirk goes, so the mech gets a combined -10% heat gen and +5% heat dissipation.

[FupDup]

All right, I'm going to actually take some time and churn out some Puma quirks that could actually help the little gundam be more effective and worthwhile. I'm going to run through each variant one at a time and try to think up some quirks that fulfill these criterion:

• Are useful
  
• Inspired by the stock loadout (i.e. if it comes with ERPPCs, it's gonna get more effective ERPPCs)...
  
• ...But with a little bit of leeway here and there for flexability
  
• Are possible within the current implementation of quirks (work with what we've got)
  
• Help the mech compensate for some of its innate weaknesses

Also note that the values I choose below may seem somewhat conversative. I’m being careful with this because I don’t want to spawn another Thunderthug 9S forum flamewar. Don’t get too caught up with the minute details.









Let’s get started…

ADR-PRIME

Spoiler

Stock loadout for inspiration: ADR-PRIME

Quirks:
ADR-Prime Center Torso: +6 Internal Structure, +5% ERPPC Velocity, +5% Ballistic Velocity
Logic: The Adder's center torso hitbox pokes out further than the sides and arms, which makes it a bit of a bullet magnet. This helps with that.

The velocity buffs help distinguish this variant as being the most accurate with projectile-based weaponry.


ADR-Prime Left Leg: +12 Internal Structure, +12.5% Acceleration, +12.5% Deceleration
Logic: This variant's frontloaded guns are used best with a peak-and-hide playstyle, which differs from laser puking. These quirks help the little guy be a better hill/corner humper.

The leg internal health boost is already in effect.


ADR-Prime Right Leg: +12 Internal Structure, +12.5% Acceleration, +12.5% Deceleration
Logic: This variant's frontloaded guns are used best with a peak-and-hide playstyle, which differs from laser puking. These quirks help the little guy be a better hill/corner humper.

The leg internal health boost is already in effect.


ADR-Prime Left Arm: + 7.5% ERPPC Velocity, -7.5% ERPPC Heat, +7.5% Torso Twist Rate
Logic: These are the main and only guns of the stock Prime. Pretty straightforward.

The torso twist agility helps compensate for the Prime lacking lower arm actuators.


ADR-Prime Right Arm: +7.5% ERPPC Velocity, -7.5% ERPPC Heat, +7.5% Torso Twist Rate
Logic: These are the main and only guns of the stock Prime. Pretty straightforward.

The torso twist agility helps compensate for the Prime lacking lower arm actuators.


ADR-Prime Left Torso: -5% Energy Heat, +10% Heat Dissipation Rate
Logic: This location contains an additional Double Heatsink compared to the base configuration. DHS improve your heat management. So, this location's quirks help improve your heat efficiency.


ADR-Prime Right Torso: +25% ERPPC Velocity, +25% Ballistic Velocity, -15% Laser Duration
Logic: This location comes equipped stock with a Targeting Computer. This equipment improves your accuracy for direct-fire weapons. These quirks make ballistics and energy more accurate.

ADR-A

Spoiler

Stock loadout for inspiration: ADR-A

Quirks:
ADR-A Center Torso: +6 Internal Structure, -5% Missile Spread, +5% Missile Cooldown
Logic: The Adder's center torso hitbox pokes out further than the sides and arms, which makes it a bit of a bullet magnet. This helps with that.

The missile spread gives a small nudge intended to make this variant a little bit better with missile accuracy (LRMs and SRMs). The missile cooldown helps this one be the best overall missile boat of the group.


ADR-A Left Leg: +12 Internal Structure, +12.5% Turning Rate
Logic: Honestly, I just wanted a variant, any variant, to get faster turning as an agility bonus. I arbitrarily chose the ADR-A for this role.

The leg internal health boost is already in effect.


ADR-A Right Leg: +12 Internal Structure, +12.5% Turning Rate
Logic: Honestly, I just wanted a variant, any variant, to get faster turning as an agility bonus. I arbitrarily chose the ADR-A for this role.

The leg internal health boost is already in effect.


ADR-A Left Arm: +7.5% LRM Cooldown, +2.5% Missile Cooldown, -7.5% LRM Spread, -2.5% Missile Spread
Logic: This location comes stock with an LRM20. It has a slow cooldown and a wide spread. These quirks help cover those issues.


ADR-A Right Arm: +7.5% LRM Cooldown, +2.5% Missile Cooldown, -7.5% LRM Spread, -2.5% Missile Spread
Logic: This location comes stock with an LRM20. It has a slow cooldown and a wide spread. These quirks help cover those issues.


ADR-A Left Torso: +7.5% Pulse Laser Cooldown
Logic: This location contains a Small Pulse Laser stock. When we look at the other body parts, we can see that this weapon is meant as backup for when the main guns (LRMs) can’t attack due to their minimum range. The cooldown quirks increase the damage output of the guns equipped in the side torsos.


ADR-A Right Torso: +7.5% Pulse Laser Cooldown
Logic: This location contains a Small Pulse Laser stock. When we look at the other body parts, we can see that this weapon is meant as backup for when the main guns (LRMs) can’t attack due to their minimum range. The cooldown quirks increase the damage output of the guns equipped in the side torsos.

ADR-B

Spoiler

Stock loadout for inspiration: ADR-B

Quirks:
ADR-B Center Torso: +3 Internal Structure, -5% Energy Heat
Logic: The Adder's center torso hitbox pokes out further than the sides and arms, which makes it a bit of a bullet magnet. This helps with that.

The reduced energy heat is because this variant equips more energy weapons stock than any other. This is the laser vomit variant, basically.

The internal structure boost was reduced to compensate for the sheer utility of reduced heat (which is IMO the best individual quirk in the game).


ADR-B Left Leg: +16 Internal Structure
Logic: This variant gets the toughest legs because of reasons. It’s arbitrary really.


ADR-B Right Leg: +16 Internal Structure
Logic: This variant gets the toughest legs because of reasons. It’s arbitrary really.


ADR-B Left Arm: +10% LBX Cooldown, +5% Ballistic Cooldown, -15% LBX Spread
Logic: This location comes stock with an LB 5-X. It has lower damage per ton than energy (the best choice for lights) and has a wide spread. These quirks help address that.


ADR-B Right Arm: -5% Pulse Laser Heat
Logic: This location comes stock with a Large Pulse Laser. It already has excellent range, so no range quirk is really needed. It has good damage, so cooldown isn’t really needed. That leaves just heat. The value is fairly small here because reduced energy heat is such a powerful quirk by itself.


ADR-B Left Torso: +5% ER Laser Range, -2.5% ER Laser Heat
Logic: The default weapon here is an ER Medium Laser. More range helps it be more pokey-skirmishy. Reduced heat helps it be a bit more of a backup weapon.


ADR-B Right Torso: +5% ER Laser Range, -2.5% ER Laser Heat
Logic: The default weapon here is an ER Medium Laser. More range helps it be more pokey-skirmishy. Reduced heat helps it be a bit more of a backup weapon.

ADR-D

Spoiler

Stock loadout for inspiration: ADR-D

Quirks:
ADR-D Center Torso: +10 Internal Structure
Logic: The Adder's center torso hitbox pokes out further than the sides and arms, which makes it a bit of a bullet magnet. This helps with that. It has a higher boost than other variants because I can’t think of secondary weapon quirks to attach with it. It has all three weapon types (energy/ballistic/missile) and can engage at all ranges, so it’s a generalist build. This is the best I can think of right now.


ADR-D Left Leg: +3 Internal Structure, +5% Top Speed
Logic: I gave it a small speed boost because I ran out of ideas. There’s already an agility variant, hillhumper variant, and a tough variant. This is literally all I could think of. The internal structure quirk got reduced a lot because of how useful this speed is.


ADR-D Right Leg: +3 Internal Structure, +5% Top Speed
Logic: I gave it a small speed boost because I ran out of ideas. There’s already an agility variant, hillhumper variant, and a tough variant. This is literally all I could think of. The internal structure quirk got reduced a lot because of how useful this speed is.


ADR-D Left Arm: -10% ER Laser Duration
Logic: This location is equipped stock with an ER Large Laser. Its biggest weakness by far is its long beam duration.


ADR-D Right Arm: +10% UAC Cooldown, +5% Ballistic Cooldown, -5% UAC Jam Rate (Additive, not multiplicative!)
Logic: This location comes stock with a UAC/5. It has lower damage per ton than energy (the best choice for lights) and has an annoying tendency to jam up. These quirks help it compete with energy on a basis of damage output.


ADR-D Left Torso: +10% SSRM Cooldown, +2.5% Missile Cooldown
Logic: The default weapon here is an SSRM2. This weapon isn’t particularly strong when not boated, due to both RNG targeting and a slowish cooldown. This helps alleviate that.

This weapon is also clearly meant as a short-range backup option if the long-range main guns couldn’t finish off the enemy robot before he got close.


ADR-D Right Torso: +10% SSRM Cooldown, +2,5% Missile Cooldown
Logic: The default weapon here is an SSRM2. This weapon isn’t particularly strong when not boated, due to both RNG targeting and a slowish cooldown. This helps alleviate that.

This weapon is also clearly meant as a short-range backup option if the long-range main guns couldn’t finish off the enemy robot before he got close.

Thoughts? Values too high or too low, just right? Is the general idea good even if the specific values are off?

Edited by FupDup, 22 March 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 22 March 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

All right, I'm going to actually take some time and churn out some Puma quirks that could actually help the little gundam be more effective and worthwhile. I'm going to run through each variant one at a time and try to think up some quirks that fulfill these criterion:

Thoughts? Values too high or too low, just right? Is the general idea good even if the specific values are off?

I would swap the LRM quirks on the A to a general Missile quirk, or half and half.


Otherwise, they seem pretty good. Perhaps a touch down, but I like them as a starting point. Would be nice to restrict the quirk to the component, though.

Your using the Prime STs as incentive does a similar thing, at least. It makes them worthwhile, perhaps even enough to sacrifice the high mounts.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 22 March 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

I would swap the LRM quirks on the A to a general Missile quirk, or half and half.


Otherwise, they seem pretty good. Perhaps a touch down, but I like them as a starting point. Would be nice to restrict the quirk to the component, though.

Your using the Prime STs as incentive does a similar thing, at least. It makes them worthwhile, perhaps even enough to sacrifice the high mounts.

I edited the A to have a small generic missile spread reduction for those who want to Spladder. Maybe I could change the way the spread got split, perhaps throw a small cooldown bone to all missiles, but overall the variant's purpose was to be a fire supporter with some backup small wubs in case things hit the fan. It wasn't built for SRM brawling.

Quirks restricted to just one location are probably not within the current coding abilities, and it just adds another layer of complication anyways. I don't think it's really worth the effort, we can just adjust the values up or down to get to a better place.


Note that some of the quirks kinda did "need" to be high, for things like ballistics (because energy and sometimes missiles are just waaay better on lights) and the Prime side torsos (no hardpoints at all, meaning if you take both then all you get is just 2 hardpoints total!). I dunno. It's all just an academic exercise anyways, unless Frosty or someone decides that they see a few ideas they like.



EDIT: I slightly split the LRM cooldowns from the A's arms and added a small generic cooldown to the A's CT as well. As said before, it wasn't built for SRM brawling, so it wouldn't make much sense to quirk it specifically for the player-made Spladder build. Otherwise, I demand that all variants come with handsome LPL quirks for my long-range Wubber build.

Edited by FupDup, 22 March 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 22 March 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

I would swap the LRM quirks on the A to a general Missile quirk, or half and half.

Seconded.

Maybe if you really want it to be a decent lurmer, boost the cooldowns so that it can be roughly on par with the 4J if you stack the right pods?

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 22 March 2015 - 10:26 AM.

[TibsVT]

Dear PGI,

Changing the ER PPC cooldown on my Adder Prime is not going to change the fact I already need to stagger the shots severely to keep it from overheating.

Love Kel.

P.S. To clarify, you're making the bad situation worse.

Edited by KelesK, 22 March 2015 - 11:11 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

KelesK, on 22 March 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

Dear PGI,

Changing the ER PPC cooldown on my Adder Prime is not going to change the fact I already need to stagger the shots severely to keep it from overheating.

Love Kel.

P.S. To clarify, you're making the bad situation worse.

THe issue isnt they are to hot, they should be. THey should be hot to fire. The issue is they only deal 10 damage for that 15 heat.

PGI needs to put damage quirks on the CERPPC maining Clan mechs.

WHK-P, SMR-P and ADR-P

Should be for the adder: 20% less heat, 10% more damage, 20% velocity
SMR: 20% LEss heat, 20% more damage, 20% velocity
WHK, 20% less heat, 30% more dmg. 30% velocity

Its hot, its slow to charge, its slow to travel and it deals no damage.....atleast not worthy of its heat. Even a Pulse laser does 13.....CERPPC should do atleast that...13/13.5? that would be great.