Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:
Bows.
Now if only he'd listen to you more often.
1
So My Summoner Prime Gets 2% Erppc Range Boost And Cooldown...because Pod Swapping Will Break It?
Started by Bishop Steiner, Mar 16 2015 02:29 PM
Balance BattleMechs Weapons
54 replies to this topic
#21
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:05 PM
Bows.
Now if only he'd listen to you more often.
#22
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:06 PM
Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:
Huge Basshopper?
But at least they seem like they'll find a workaround...
#23
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:08 PM
And id like to say the engineers hit it out of the park. It IS in easy fix, and they nailed it in less than an hour between the tweet, and the update that itll be hotfixed in.
Good job fellahs.
Good job fellahs.
#24
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:09 PM
Im glad they are getting a fix for it, don't get me wrong, but it baffles me sometimes that these go as "unknown problems" for so long.
At least they are fixing it though, and felt I should reiterate that.
At least they are fixing it though, and felt I should reiterate that.
Edited by WM Quicksilver, 16 March 2015 - 03:22 PM.
#25
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:10 PM
well its about time!
Gargoyle should totally climb hills like a Locust though
Gargoyle should totally climb hills like a Locust though
#26
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:10 PM
If I had to guess, my money is that they'll split up the movement archetype into TWO different categories instead of just one: the collision capsule and the climbing ability. Right now they're both lumped into one characteristic.
#27
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:11 PM
*Sigh*
So when Piranha makes massive changes to try and quickly adjust balance issues and make things better they get smacked for swinging the Hammer around willy-nilly and being Bad At Balance, but when they finally decide to try making smaller changes first, they get smacked for not going far enough and being Bad At Balance?
Make a decision, people - do we want them to try small, iterative changes, or do we want them to push the Fuggidall Button twice a year? Besides, as I said in my own thread on the matter, Clan weapons basically come pre-megaquirked. Nothing in the Clan side - no, not even the Suckoner - needs gigantic, stupidly overdone and highly depressing Spheroid-style 40% nonsense quirks to be good, since the power of their weapons isn't their problem. Things like the Gargoyle, the Summoner, the Adder, their guns are just fine - it's other factors entirely which hold them all back.
Forty-percent quirks are an admission of failure, not a fix. The only one of them I feel is even remotely justified is the new set on the IV4, because if any 'Mech in the game can be honestly considered to be Tier 6, it's the IV4.
So when Piranha makes massive changes to try and quickly adjust balance issues and make things better they get smacked for swinging the Hammer around willy-nilly and being Bad At Balance, but when they finally decide to try making smaller changes first, they get smacked for not going far enough and being Bad At Balance?
Make a decision, people - do we want them to try small, iterative changes, or do we want them to push the Fuggidall Button twice a year? Besides, as I said in my own thread on the matter, Clan weapons basically come pre-megaquirked. Nothing in the Clan side - no, not even the Suckoner - needs gigantic, stupidly overdone and highly depressing Spheroid-style 40% nonsense quirks to be good, since the power of their weapons isn't their problem. Things like the Gargoyle, the Summoner, the Adder, their guns are just fine - it's other factors entirely which hold them all back.
Forty-percent quirks are an admission of failure, not a fix. The only one of them I feel is even remotely justified is the new set on the IV4, because if any 'Mech in the game can be honestly considered to be Tier 6, it's the IV4.
#28
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:12 PM
KraftySOT, on 16 March 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:
And id like to say the engineers hit it out of the park. It IS in easy fix, and they nailed it in less than an hour between the tweet, and the update that itll be hotfixed in.
Good job fellahs.
Good job fellahs.
Agreed. I think a lot of it simply is oversights and things that sometimes you need the outside the box guys speaking up to see. Generally speaking, I feel the code guys work their butts off.
#29
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:13 PM
FupDup, on 16 March 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:
If I had to guess, my money is that they'll split up the movement archetype into TWO different categories instead of just one: the collision capsule and the climbing ability. Right now they're both lumped into one characteristic.
Also a good possibility. You can do a Large 1 and Large 2, where one emulates Huge but is the same size as Large, and a Huge 1 and Huge 2, where Huge 2 is the size of Huge, but acts like Large.
#30
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- The Ominous
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:13 PM
1453 R, on 16 March 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:
*Sigh*
So when Piranha makes massive changes to try and quickly adjust balance issues and make things better they get smacked for swinging the Hammer around willy-nilly and being Bad At Balance, but when they finally decide to try making smaller changes first, they get smacked for not going far enough and being Bad At Balance?
Make a decision, people - do we want them to try small, iterative changes, or do we want them to push the Fuggidall Button twice a year? Besides, as I said in my own thread on the matter, Clan weapons basically come pre-megaquirked. Nothing in the Clan side - no, not even the Suckoner - needs gigantic, stupidly overdone and highly depressing Spheroid-style 40% nonsense quirks to be good, since the power of their weapons isn't their problem. Things like the Gargoyle, the Summoner, the Adder, their guns are just fine - it's other factors entirely which hold them all back.
Forty-percent quirks are an admission of failure, not a fix. The only one of them I feel is even remotely justified is the new set on the IV4, because if any 'Mech in the game can be honestly considered to be Tier 6, it's the IV4.
So when Piranha makes massive changes to try and quickly adjust balance issues and make things better they get smacked for swinging the Hammer around willy-nilly and being Bad At Balance, but when they finally decide to try making smaller changes first, they get smacked for not going far enough and being Bad At Balance?
Make a decision, people - do we want them to try small, iterative changes, or do we want them to push the Fuggidall Button twice a year? Besides, as I said in my own thread on the matter, Clan weapons basically come pre-megaquirked. Nothing in the Clan side - no, not even the Suckoner - needs gigantic, stupidly overdone and highly depressing Spheroid-style 40% nonsense quirks to be good, since the power of their weapons isn't their problem. Things like the Gargoyle, the Summoner, the Adder, their guns are just fine - it's other factors entirely which hold them all back.
Forty-percent quirks are an admission of failure, not a fix. The only one of them I feel is even remotely justified is the new set on the IV4, because if any 'Mech in the game can be honestly considered to be Tier 6, it's the IV4.
Too big a buff and you ruin the game
Too Small a buff and you change nothing.
2% is so impossibly little, that they should have just not bothered.
#31
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:14 PM
Which of course you can also do other movement profiles. You could make your Large chickenwalkers have a different profile from your Large Manwalkers, etc.
In theory they could have as many movement profiles as they want.
In theory they could have as many movement profiles as they want.
#32
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:15 PM
Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:
Spoiler
SHAZAAM!!!!
They're fixing the gargoyle.
They're fixing... the gargoyle!
DEAR GOD!
THEY'RE FIXING THE GARGOYLE!
Happy dance, everyone! HAPPY DANCE!
#33
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:15 PM
1453 R, on 16 March 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:
*Sigh*
So when Piranha makes massive changes to try and quickly adjust balance issues and make things better they get smacked for swinging the Hammer around willy-nilly and being Bad At Balance, but when they finally decide to try making smaller changes first, they get smacked for not going far enough and being Bad At Balance?
Make a decision, people - do we want them to try small, iterative changes, or do we want them to push the Fuggidall Button twice a year? Besides, as I said in my own thread on the matter, Clan weapons basically come pre-megaquirked. Nothing in the Clan side - no, not even the Suckoner - needs gigantic, stupidly overdone and highly depressing Spheroid-style 40% nonsense quirks to be good, since the power of their weapons isn't their problem. Things like the Gargoyle, the Summoner, the Adder, their guns are just fine - it's other factors entirely which hold them all back.
Forty-percent quirks are an admission of failure, not a fix. The only one of them I feel is even remotely justified is the new set on the IV4, because if any 'Mech in the game can be honestly considered to be Tier 6, it's the IV4.
So when Piranha makes massive changes to try and quickly adjust balance issues and make things better they get smacked for swinging the Hammer around willy-nilly and being Bad At Balance, but when they finally decide to try making smaller changes first, they get smacked for not going far enough and being Bad At Balance?
Make a decision, people - do we want them to try small, iterative changes, or do we want them to push the Fuggidall Button twice a year? Besides, as I said in my own thread on the matter, Clan weapons basically come pre-megaquirked. Nothing in the Clan side - no, not even the Suckoner - needs gigantic, stupidly overdone and highly depressing Spheroid-style 40% nonsense quirks to be good, since the power of their weapons isn't their problem. Things like the Gargoyle, the Summoner, the Adder, their guns are just fine - it's other factors entirely which hold them all back.
Forty-percent quirks are an admission of failure, not a fix. The only one of them I feel is even remotely justified is the new set on the IV4, because if any 'Mech in the game can be honestly considered to be Tier 6, it's the IV4.
you do realize there is a common sense middle ground? Seriously, in what universe does 2-4% make a difference?
Seriously. Not asking for a 40-50% stackable buff, we'll save that for Dragons and Thuds and such.
But 2-4% That seems like a good compromise position, how? Maybe try setting it so that when they stack, you see numbers from 10-15-20% total, when Minmaxed?
Which, BTW, the only stackable minmaxxing the Summoner Pods allow is for a total 4% boost to missiles.
Wow.
#34
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:15 PM
Brody319, on 16 March 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:
can you ask about the movement profile of the gargoyle, I don't have a twitter.
If you don't have twitter PGI couldn't care less what you think. I mean it's not like they have an official forum just for MWO related stuff.
#35
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:17 PM
SO, my 89kph 'mech will no longer ascend the stairs on Viridian Bog as terribly as the Dire Wolf?
Please tell me this is real.
Please tell me this is real.
#36
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:21 PM
1453 R, on 16 March 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:
*Sigh*
So when Piranha makes massive changes to try and quickly adjust balance issues and make things better they get smacked for swinging the Hammer around willy-nilly and being Bad At Balance, but when they finally decide to try making smaller changes first, they get smacked for not going far enough and being Bad At Balance?
So when Piranha makes massive changes to try and quickly adjust balance issues and make things better they get smacked for swinging the Hammer around willy-nilly and being Bad At Balance, but when they finally decide to try making smaller changes first, they get smacked for not going far enough and being Bad At Balance?
Yes.
Too much of even a good thing spoils it, as does too little.
Moderation in everything, as Aristotle said.
In principle, small iterative changes is a great plan. In practice, PGI... just isn't that great at small, iterative changes. They tend to start doing them, then for one reason or the other (*cough* Mech Packs *cough*) stop and forget all about it, leaving the initial small change as the only change - except for the huge changes that preceded and necessitated the iterative changes in the first place.
End result? Balance is still off, and PGI is still Bad At Balance.
#37
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:25 PM
RG Notch, on 16 March 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:
If you don't have twitter PGI couldn't care less what you think. I mean it's not like they have an official forum just for MWO related stuff.
wow what a useful and insightful post. And utterly full of it, as I have had many Devs comment directly on my posts, and have seen it on others.
Twitter with Russ though is an effective way to shout over the morass of crap that the Forums tend to be filled with.
#38
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:29 PM
Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:
RLY?!?!?!?! 
Look I get the Min/Max podd conundrum, in theory. Mechs liek the DWF and HBR could conceivably break a lot of things, if their pods had individual heavy buffs.
But could someone take the Summoner Quirks and show me just what fearsome stacking combo is going to make the 2% range and cooldown boosts on my ER PPC into a broken OP weapon of doom?
Summoners
There is NOTHING in any other usable Pod it stacks with.
And the fearsome missile stacking by slapping Bravo arms onto my Prime? Totals -4% to LRM or SRM spread.. and plus a total 4% to Velocity?
Umm.......
Seriously, am I missing something here? Please tell me I am?
Because as said, I can see cases on certain Mechs (note ones that are already Tier 1 and 2?) that one would have a possible issue. So, um, on THOSE mechs, you give minor percentages? But .... on this... I ...uh. Yeah.
*SMH*
Look I get the Min/Max podd conundrum, in theory. Mechs liek the DWF and HBR could conceivably break a lot of things, if their pods had individual heavy buffs.
But could someone take the Summoner Quirks and show me just what fearsome stacking combo is going to make the 2% range and cooldown boosts on my ER PPC into a broken OP weapon of doom?
Summoners
Spoiler
There is NOTHING in any other usable Pod it stacks with.
And the fearsome missile stacking by slapping Bravo arms onto my Prime? Totals -4% to LRM or SRM spread.. and plus a total 4% to Velocity?
Umm.......
Seriously, am I missing something here? Please tell me I am?
Because as said, I can see cases on certain Mechs (note ones that are already Tier 1 and 2?) that one would have a possible issue. So, um, on THOSE mechs, you give minor percentages? But .... on this... I ...uh. Yeah.
*SMH*
Bishop - as much as this is going to suck to hear:
The last thing any clan mech needs is more range. The only reason that the IS get insanely high % quirks is due to the massive difference in firepower that errs to the side of Clan.
The Summoner's primary issue is not range, it's issues are that it lacks free tonnage - which isn't something that can be fixed by quirks.
#39
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:33 PM
Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:
wow what a useful and insightful post. And utterly full of it, as I have had many Devs comment directly on my posts, and have seen it on others.
Twitter with Russ though is an effective way to shout over the morass of crap that the Forums tend to be filled with.
Twitter with Russ though is an effective way to shout over the morass of crap that the Forums tend to be filled with.
Oh I stand corrected, lol. If you spend enough money and post 27K times you too might get a dev response. For the rest of you peasants please stick to Twitter as Russ can't be bothered to read his own forums.
#40
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:35 PM
RG Notch, on 16 March 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:
Oh I stand corrected, lol. If you spend enough money and post 27K times you too might get a dev response. For the rest of you peasants please stick to Twitter as Russ can't be bothered to read his own forums.
They read them. They just do not always make a post.
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