716 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

Illya Arkhipova, on 20 March 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

Can we add "Unlimited Ammo", "No Heat" and "Repair Drops" (for Clan Wolf only) , so the Pups have a chance to keep up?

Your Inner sFear is showing...

I am pointing out that the IS does not have it rough, nothing more. There is this continual propagation by "the powers that be" if you will, that Clans are dramatically stronger...the reality is that they are not.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Gyrok, on 20 March 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Your Inner sFear is showing...

I am pointing out that the IS does not have it rough, nothing more. There is this continual propagation by "the powers that be" if you will, that Clans are dramatically stronger...the reality is that they are not.

so tell me again why it's pretty much only Wolves...and apparently a specific unit of Wolves making 95% of the fuss, again?

[Kristov Kerensky]

Gyrok, on 20 March 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Your Inner sFear is showing...

I am pointing out that the IS does not have it rough, nothing more. There is this continual propagation by "the powers that be" if you will, that Clans are dramatically stronger...the reality is that they are not.

Incorrect, YOUR inability to use the Clan toys to their full potential does not equate to them being inferior or even equal to the IS toys.

Players see it all the time in CW and outside of CW, Clans are more powerful, as they are supposed to be. Problem is, they are a little TOO much more powerful for a well balanced PvP game format, so there needs to be more balance changes made.

The ST XL destruction causing a slow down of 20% is an attempt to balance them, nothing more. They already have a 20% cooling loss when destroyed, and THAT has had so little effect that no one even realized it was in play. And by the way, the actual math shows the MOST cooling loss attained is by a Mist Lynx losing it's 2 DHS torso side, for a massive 37% loss in cooling. The OTHER Clan Mechs are around 25-35% cooling loss when they lose their ST with the most DHS tied to it(35% when you put a LOT of DHS in the st/arm, to reach more than 40%, you need to have 10 DHS in the st/arm combined, which means NOTHING else on that side). Again, this has been in the game for a bit now, no one noticed it, it was NOT effective as a balance change, so Russ is now considering the speed loss, and that's ALL, there's no stunlock and 10s of immobility, just a loss of max speed attained, 10% to 20%, which is a grand 20kph for most of the Clan Mechs, less for the Dire.

Me, I can survive the loss of a LEG in my KitFox, Nova, Summoner, Hellbringer, even my Dire, and that HAS a stunlock mechanic AND drops my top speed massively. I am an above average player, I freely admit that, but I'm NOT a top tier player, so if I can deal with a lost leg, a slight drop in speed isn't going to be instant death for me.

You can't deal with a slight slow down or you die? Maybe you really aren't as good as you think? Just saying...

[Gyrok]

Illya Arkhipova, on 20 March 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:

so tell me again why it's pretty much only Wolves...and apparently a specific unit of Wolves making 95% of the fuss, again?

Bishop Steiner...it is not just wolves, or specifically a single unit doing the talking, there are even people in your alt accounts affiliated unit CGBI that disagree, like cimarb who is in your keshik among many others.

If you are going to present an argument from an IS perspective, RPing in your clan alt account is not going to get you any favors from me as you are simply trying to make me look like I am divergent from many clan players perspectives, and the truth is most, clans players do not frequent this forum or twitter enough to know the truth of what may happen, and thus are not here.

Recall the "remove the hard limits on queue for pub/solo" poll where everyone who hated it got outvoted massively, then 30 minutes after they changed it the forums erupted with "OMGWTFBBQ!!!! QUEUE IS BROKN PLZ FIX!!!"

The EXACT same thing will happen here, and it will piss people off.

Kristov Kerensky, on 20 March 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:

Incorrect, YOUR inability to use the Clan toys to their full potential does not equate to them being inferior or even equal to the IS toys.

Players see it all the time in CW and outside of CW, Clans are more powerful, as they are supposed to be. Problem is, they are a little TOO much more powerful for a well balanced PvP game format, so there needs to be more balance changes made.

The ST XL destruction causing a slow down of 20% is an attempt to balance them, nothing more. They already have a 20% cooling loss when destroyed, and THAT has had so little effect that no one even realized it was in play. And by the way, the actual math shows the MOST cooling loss attained is by a Mist Lynx losing it's 2 DHS torso side, for a massive 37% loss in cooling. The OTHER Clan Mechs are around 25-35% cooling loss when they lose their ST with the most DHS tied to it(35% when you put a LOT of DHS in the st/arm, to reach more than 40%, you need to have 10 DHS in the st/arm combined, which means NOTHING else on that side). Again, this has been in the game for a bit now, no one noticed it, it was NOT effective as a balance change, so Russ is now considering the speed loss, and that's ALL, there's no stunlock and 10s of immobility, just a loss of max speed attained, 10% to 20%, which is a grand 20kph for most of the Clan Mechs, less for the Dire.

Me, I can survive the loss of a LEG in my KitFox, Nova, Summoner, Hellbringer, even my Dire, and that HAS a stunlock mechanic AND drops my top speed massively. I am an above average player, I freely admit that, but I'm NOT a top tier player, so if I can deal with a lost leg, a slight drop in speed isn't going to be instant death for me.

You can't deal with a slight slow down or you die? Maybe you really aren't as good as you think? Just saying...

You are incapable of reading the numbers, even guys like Jman5 admit that there are quite a few IS builds that outdps the clans.

Also, just FYI, my winning % in CW happens to be around 90%; however, I know when we face tough teams, they have advantages we have to play against, just as clans have advantages they need to play against.

The reality of the situation is, right now, the side that can best dictate what the other team has to do to engage them wins.

That comes through a combination of factors that play out as the match wears on.

Unfortunately, you have a strategy fail of epic proportions going on, and do not understand the concepts that go beyond the simple surface of the game. Those are all components of the "meta game". It is not just mechs.

Edited by Gyrok, 20 March 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Gyrok, on 20 March 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

Unfortunately, you have a strategy fail of epic proportions going on, and do not understand the concepts that go beyond the simple surface of the game. Those are all components of the "meta game". It is not just mechs.

Epic? Fail?
I think you exaggerate.
First if 20% of a part of a component get nerfed - the impact on your 90% gameplay for winning CW should be nil - in the worst of all cases it changes to 89%

Next - maybe i did not have seen the UeberEnemys you face - at best i can remember only a couple of times where a ClanMech with "one" destroyed Side Torso still hat much armor in CT or the other torso
And the numbers of dead by 2 side torso destructions clan mechs are even less.
Those serious damaged mechs that lost their side torso were mostly on the move into cover - they would have get there even with reduced speed - while if you start moving after your side went off - you don't make it into cover not even with 120%

You should look realistic on the fact - and stop using "this" feature as a balance issue of extreme magnitude. Its not - i expect it will hardly be visible.

[Gyrok]

Karl Streiger, on 20 March 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Epic? Fail?
I think you exaggerate.
First if 20% of a part of a component get nerfed - the impact on your 90% gameplay for winning CW should be nil - in the worst of all cases it changes to 89%

Next - maybe i did not have seen the UeberEnemys you face - at best i can remember only a couple of times where a ClanMech with "one" destroyed Side Torso still hat much armor in CT or the other torso
And the numbers of dead by 2 side torso destructions clan mechs are even less.
Those serious damaged mechs that lost their side torso were mostly on the move into cover - they would have get there even with reduced speed - while if you start moving after your side went off - you don't make it into cover not even with 120%

You should look realistic on the fact - and stop using "this" feature as a balance issue of extreme magnitude. Its not - i expect it will hardly be visible.

Clan mechs die frequently from double ST loss...in fact I would bet as many or more die from losing both ST than do from CT as any part of that equation.

Why? Because it is quicker...now you want to accelerate that process...?

As for diminishing the performance...yes it will *GREATLY*, most clan pilots worth anything will ensure they lose a ST before a CT because it is more effective to use that strength. Now you want to penalize the mech making certain they die when they might have escaped? That is as bad a joke as the 15 kph while fired at and legged thing...I mean really...are we not WELL past the point that we can all say that rule is simply ridiculous by now?

Edited by Gyrok, 20 March 2015 - 08:38 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I'm glad to hear that your win percentage in CW is 90%, thank you very much for showing us exactly how under powered the Clan toys are currently.

I think we've seen enough, quiaff.

[Karl Streiger]

no no no the Cw supperiority has nothing to do with the used Mechs - or at least this way i did unterstand his former post.
That means on the other hand 20% from nothing important will have no impact.

Keep it simple currently not critable components (engine, gyro, Sensors, life Support, Cockpit, activators) have to become a part of game Play - question of the BattleMech Expierience is to sit in a Mech that is dying around you - not to switch from 100% to 0% in a split second.
The most simple cause of engine criticals is the destruction of side torso - we have allready 3hits (Is XL) so its not a nerf but simple a fact of objektiv Balance to have effect after 2 criticals
Am I right?

[Jman5]

Gyrok, on 20 March 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

You are incapable of reading the numbers, even guys like Jman5 admit that there are quite a few IS builds that outdps the clans.

"Guys like Jman5" was comparing an 85 ton IS assault mech with a 75 ton Clan heavy mech. Despite the 10 ton advantage, several other metrics came out in favor of the timberwolf. In fact one point I brought up was that neither of us know what the practical DPS comparison is (ie how much damage can you put out over time without overheating.). Smurfies indicates that the timberwolf wins in sustained dps without overheating, but I don't trust the number. In fact another point I brought up, which seems to have been ignored, is that being able to take on a mech that is 10 tons underweight does not really have much bearing on the smaller mech's balance. Assuming equal pilot skill, an 85 ton, strongly quirked, Stalker 4N should be able to take on a 75 ton timberwolf in a straight fight. It would be a disturbing imbalance if that is not the case.

There were no "quite a few IS builds" mentioned and I think you're the last person to call people out for being incapable of reading numbers.

Edited by Jman5, 20 March 2015 - 09:29 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Jman5, on 20 March 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

"Guys like Jman5" was comparing an 85 ton IS assault mech with a 75 ton Clan heavy mech. Despite the 10 ton advantage, several other metrics came out in favor of the timberwolf. In fact one point I brought up was that neither of us know what the practical DPS comparison is (ie how much damage can you put out over time without overheating.). Smurfies indicates that the timberwolf wins in sustained dps without overheating, but I don't trust the number. In fact another point I brought up, which seems to have been ignored, is that being able to take on a mech that is 10 tons underweight does not really have much bearing on the smaller mech's balance. Assuming equal pilot skill, an 85 ton, strongly quirked, Stalker 4N should be able to take on a 75 ton timberwolf in a straight fight. It would be a disturbing imbalance if that is not the case.

There were no "quite a few IS builds" mentioned and I think you're the last person to call people out for being incapable of reading numbers.

It also beats the PeaceDove, though that's inferior to the TimberGod.



I'll ask again...can I have an isXL for my Myth Lynx with TT style engine construction rules?

It wouldn't beat the Arctic Cheetah, but it wouldn't be far off.

[KraftySOT]

Gyrok, on 20 March 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

Why? Because it is quicker...now you want to accelerate that process...?

Heres your faulty logic. Your firing, speed below 100kph, and heat generation, have absolutely nothing to do with my TTK you.

Nothing thats being done to your STs makes you die any faster. Im still going to CT core you, because its NOT faster to go through 2 STs, than it is to go through one CT that at most, has around 80 or so HP, that can be cored instantly with some builds, on both sides. A dire is rocking 160hp, but over 300 between both STs, its still faster to core it. The best way to kill them is with headshots since they just stand there and Dakka you or line up their gooserifles.

Im pretty sure if I went back and read all your other posts, those would contain a bunch of false hoods as well.

Edited by KraftySOT, 20 March 2015 - 09:50 AM.

[KraftySOT]

And when is someone going to mention that every single Clan mech has a half damage absorbing void shield when its ST is destroyed, but no IS mech with an XL engine will ever have one.

Asymmetrical balance. Being fun and generating whines since the first world war two game ever.

(The M1 is OP!!!! NO the MG42 is OP!!! STUPID SPITDWEEB!!! DAMN RUNSTANG!!! THAT Fw190 IS BS OP!!!)

Edited by KraftySOT, 20 March 2015 - 09:55 AM.

[Mystere]

Kristov Kerensky, on 20 March 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:

Incorrect, YOUR inability to use the Clan IS toys to their full potential does not equate to them being inferior or even equal to the IS Clan toys.

FTFY. It works both ways, you know.

[KraftySOT]

Thats true.

You cant base balance on what the bads do with their toys.

The Lords went Marik. Ask them.

[KraftySOT]

Alooooot of people in here with some rather outlandish opinions, who arent people id consider top tier players, and who havent spent solid time on both sides, in the best mechs, with the best builds, with all the modules and whistles, playing with 11 other guys who all have the same mechs and abilities.

I dropped with the Aces last night against CI.

All thunderbolts, against all stormcrows. Was a very close game, I think 43-48 for a clan win, with us counter attacking. We lost at the end really because we couldnt get Omega down and get out of there with more kills. We had them out killed until our last wave. The tight valleys of Sulphorus Rift kept our IS light pwnage at bay.

Im not seeing this world where the two sides balance is that out of whack. Its pretty good with a slight edge to the clans, though im not in a Clan unit, and dont drop with them, so take my experience with a grain of salt.

Go ask Shimmering Sword, or one of the Goons or the Lords.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Remove Speed Tweak from TWolf and SCrow, make both have Large Archtype

problem solved

[Zeusus]

I honestly feel that even if IS won 90% of games people would still be saying 'OP clans'

[Karl Streiger]

Zeusus, on 20 March 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

I honestly feel that even if IS won 90% of games people would still be saying 'OP clans'

Missed the topic nobody did complain that Clan are Op - can i beat a Timber in a battle of my choice sure so not Op.
Heck there was Is Op stuff for sure - 50% Quirks in General are off - maybe they are necesary for balance - but i hate a system that gives one out of dozens the option to be balanced.
Like the is Lpl is off in comparison with the is ll but not in comparison with the c Lpl.

Anyhow can't say how the St. Louis CORRECTION will affect balance - so can't yoyou.
So verdammt nochmal, give it a try and look afterwards - Deal!!!
If i think its not Ok i will change my mind

[Zeusus]

If you haven't seen people claiming clans are op you haven't read this thread at all. That's how 3/4 of people who want this have justified it. Heck there are people crying op clans on this thread page even...

Personally I'm not too concerned about this Nerf, if I've lost a st I'm probably about to go down anyways so Meh.

[Gyrok]

KraftySOT, on 20 March 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Heres your faulty logic. Your firing, speed below 100kph, and heat generation, have absolutely nothing to do with my TTK you.

Nothing thats being done to your STs makes you die any faster. Im still going to CT core you, because its NOT faster to go through 2 STs, than it is to go through one CT that at most, has around 80 or so HP, that can be cored instantly with some builds, on both sides. A dire is rocking 160hp, but over 300 between both STs, its still faster to core it. The best way to kill them is with headshots since they just stand there and Dakka you or line up their gooserifles.

Im pretty sure if I went back and read all your other posts, those would contain a bunch of false hoods as well.

If the mech is torso twisting, the TW has enormous STs. In fact, you can hit the exact same ST on a TW through greater than 90 degrees of the torso twist arc.

So, if you are an intelligent player, and you know 2 areas where a single panel can be hit with consistent regularity, why would you not focus that area? Especially when every TW tries to shield legs/feather JJs. You can easily keep damage on the ST panels without trying very hard at all, and you can drop a TW insanely fast by dropping those 2 STs.

Also, it will not take you any longer to kill 2 STs than it will to kill 2 legs, and most people will tell you legs are the fastest way to kill a mech. Except now you can leg clan mechs by knocking out a ST.