716 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 March 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

depends which side you lose.


exactly this.

And the Summoner and Nova are my favorite Clan Mechs. But I am able to see the big picture a heck of a lot better than some folks can, apparently.

all you see is a very very biased picture, your filtered "pros" lists you spammed everywhere for clantech proofes this.

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

Yup, because the IS has immortal XLs, 2 crit DHS, 7 Crit Endo, 7 Crit and stronger Ferro, Half Weight Missiles, Lighter Gauss, ER PPC, LB-10X, etc.....

Yup, IS has ALL the advantages.

Your histrionics hurt your cause far more than help.

so still you have not answered me this questionf or the last 2 times:

would you really pilot any is light with clanconstruction rules if you had clantech on them?
you know fixed stiock equip, fixed stcik engine soze but "immortal" XL?

cmon show me those builds mr "big picture".

The big picture is, majority of clans are broken and bad mechs and the "superior" Xl is worthless when the sze doesn't fit, or a STD would be a better option.

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

ah, but it's ok for them to have arbitrary advantages the IS can't match. gotcha.


Really hard to tell anything definitive off of CW alone, since all it really says is which side had more people dropping. Especially on a challenge weekend where good portion of both factions are just point farming. (And *gasp* a lot of point farmers run clan tech) Which tends to lead to losses.

Be curious to see how CW stabilizes post challenge.

That, and TBH, I've been watching and fighting against certain Clan Units that were losing to PUGs.

wait, recently clans winning more missions counted as argument, suddenly when the statistics flips its an invalid argument?

not biased at all right?

Edited by Lily from animove, 29 March 2015 - 11:57 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 29 March 2015 - 11:53 PM, said:

would you really pilot any is light with clanconstruction rules if you had clantech on them?
you know fixed stiock equip, fixed stcik engine soze but "immortal" XL?

cmon show me those builds mr "big picture".

The big picture is, majority of clans are broken and bad mechs and the "superior" Xl is worthless when the sze doesn't fit, or a STD would be a better option.

wait, recently clans winning more missions counted as argument, suddenly when the statistics flips its an invalid argument?

ok wait - you ask for - locked stock structure?
So example - stock UrbanMech locked for STD60, SHS and Standard Structure?
Or do you ask for a FireStarter - with interchangeable -pods - but locked Clan 210XL - plus FF plus ES plus JJs?

Considering the STD the better option - only works for the Gargoyle - not the 400 - but any STD <= 340

But while you like strange comparisons:
So lets predict you can change your engine towards a STD of your liking, add/remove ES and FF add/remove heatsinks minimum of 10, add/remove jumpjets. Remove fixed equipment - but still you are not allowed to change the XL rating
Should i tell you that you still want more? After all that stuff - you will ask for exact that stuff that is still locked -the Engine Rating. because after all that stuff -the KitFox and the Adder didn't have changed much - nor does the TimberWolf or the StormCrow.
So you may get this too - for ClanBattleMechs with interchangeable OmniPods - but i can predict we will see:
only Hankyus, ShadowCats, StormCrows, TimberWolfs and Executioners afterwards.

And there is your problem.

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 30 March 2015 - 12:08 AM, said:

ok wait - you ask for - locked stock structure?
So example - stock UrbanMech locked for STD60, SHS and Standard Structure?
Or do you ask for a FireStarter - with interchangeable -pods - but locked Clan 210XL - plus FF plus ES plus JJs?

Considering the STD the better option - only works for the Gargoyle - not the 400 - but any STD <= 340

But while you like strange comparisons:
So lets predict you can change your engine towards a STD of your liking, add/remove ES and FF add/remove heatsinks minimum of 10, add/remove jumpjets. Remove fixed equipment - but still you are not allowed to change the XL rating
Should i tell you that you still want more? After all that stuff - you will ask for exact that stuff that is still locked -the Engine Rating. because after all that stuff -the KitFox and the Adder didn't have changed much - nor does the TimberWolf or the StormCrow.
So you may get this too - for ClanBattleMechs with interchangeable OmniPods - but i can predict we will see:
only Hankyus, ShadowCats, StormCrows, TimberWolfs and Executioners afterwards.

And there is your problem.

i don't think so, if an adder can go 140kph, a 4 SPL adder would be a vialble build or any KFX.

question is if your IS lights could:

upgrade to DHS, use ES7FF, but have to keep any other fixed equip (JJ's) and stock engine indestructible XL's. what would you use that way (even if ES/FF is 7 crits). it would be very much a hardly usable mech. FS9's may be decent becuse of a lot hardpoints, yet with clantech, maybe not anymore because they run too hot without any real quirks.

and I guess a lot clanlight pilots would prefer a destructible XL if they cna go 150kph with it.
Saying clan XL is an advantage is not true, its only a advantage in soem cases. but at the kfx and adder spee, its not an advantage its even more pointless than a "easy dead" Is XL. CTs on adders and KFX are quite easy to hit and destroy at this lousy speed.

With the construction rules we have most clanmechs are so low customizeable that it hurts them a lot. balancing the engines agaonst eahc other will not create balance, because the Stock XL in a TBR is amazing and semi OP. yet the stock XL in the adder or KFX? pitiful.

I don't know why people thik this will cerate balance and the only thing to ask the IS players to understand this is:

would you play your lights with those construction rules if your XL is St loss safe? Answer: you wouldn't you would still use IS construction rules because this is still way better.
The light queue is abitiful picture already, and trying to balance clan vs IS on a feature like this is the most wrong way ever. This is going to be a giant nerf for the clanlights and an even more worse impact on the light queue.
This is not how we gonna achieve balance.

And you see the mechs you name, why do w have to nerf the clan XL's when we clearly know the emchs being issues that should be nerfed instead of across all board nerfs.

[Karl Streiger]

Of course they want to run > 120kph - because anything below that doesn't screw HSR on big scale won't save you.

I think one of the reasons lights want to run as fast as possible - to force more lead. Thanks to the advanced zoom its also highly predictable that the shooter will miss. I never use adv zoom since i recognized that it does not scale properly (good for shots a stationary targets - but nothing more) - without adv zoom - its not very hard to hit even a Spider at >1000m with a Gauss or even the ERPPC - as long as this spider did not recognized you yet.

That was the point i did want to mention - the benefit of speed and the reactor weight is based on a game - that was not designed to have XL engines - given the "power" of fast mechs combined with good armor - made it necessary to have those engine weights.
The Adders and Kit Fox speed given with their long range armament works good in TT - but speed doesn't scale properly.
Same for the Gargoyle - its a huge target with bad mobility and low slung arms - but 26.5t for the reactor.

I know i will regret this - but I'm for a blanket buff of engine output - the engine weight not the rating should scale proportional to the available speed. (if that means a Gargoyle running 110 kph - and a TimberWolf 100 - so be it)

[dimachaerus]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

Yup, because the IS has immortal XLs, 2 crit DHS, 7 Crit Endo, 7 Crit and stronger Ferro, Half Weight Missiles, Lighter Gauss, ER PPC, LB-10X, etc.....

Yup, IS has ALL the advantages.

Your histrionics hurt your cause far more than help.

I'd trade a good chunk of that to have Centurion level ballistic bonuses for my Kit Fox's right arm, Panther level ERPPC bonuses for my adder, and hell, lets be generous here: Swayback bonuses for my Nova, Summoner gets the "Dragon" treatment, Warhawk is the new "Awesome"...

Sound like a good trade?

Seriously Bishop, when "quirks" make your one LBX, ER-large, PPC, or whatever, more than equivalent to firing TWO of that weapon in chain fire, and then can be applied across say, two or three of that same system, the clans bonuses in terms of weight, and space tend to look a bit pale.

Take my CN9-D I was driving in CW earlier: I have an LBX-10, Two Mediums, and ten tubes of SRM's (6/4). With my LBX refire rate module and that mechs binuses, I have an EFFECTIVE Dual LBX-10 and then some. That thing fires OBSCENELY fast, I can chew through five tons of ammo lickety-split, and guess what that does to poor sods pushing in the gate?

Like I've said before, all this hoopla over "Clams OP! Pls nerf!" is asinine anymore. I **** you not, I don't even drive my clan mechs anymore unless I'm feeling particularly plucky, because lets face it: I can get more kills, and more damage in my Locust, than I can my Kit-fox, and that is just plain STUPID.

Edited by dimachaerus, 30 March 2015 - 01:28 AM.

[Adamski]

Gyrok, on 29 March 2015 - 09:36 PM, said:

Then give CXLs the ability to lose both STs and zombie...since being a STD engine after ST loss seems "balanced" to you...

Lose 1 ST and become a IS STD, lose 2 ST and become an IS XL.

Get a tissue for your issue and stop crying.

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 30 March 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

Of course they want to run > 120kph - because anything below that doesn't screw HSR on big scale won't save you.

I think one of the reasons lights want to run as fast as possible - to force more lead. Thanks to the advanced zoom its also highly predictable that the shooter will miss. I never use adv zoom since i recognized that it does not scale properly (good for shots a stationary targets - but nothing more) - without adv zoom - its not very hard to hit even a Spider at >1000m with a Gauss or even the ERPPC - as long as this spider did not recognized you yet.

That was the point i did want to mention - the benefit of speed and the reactor weight is based on a game - that was not designed to have XL engines - given the "power" of fast mechs combined with good armor - made it necessary to have those engine weights.
The Adders and Kit Fox speed given with their long range armament works good in TT - but speed doesn't scale properly.
Same for the Gargoyle - its a huge target with bad mobility and low slung arms - but 26.5t for the reactor.

I know i will regret this - but I'm for a blanket buff of engine output - the engine weight not the rating should scale proportional to the available speed. (if that means a Gargoyle running 110 kph - and a TimberWolf 100 - so be it)

it's not only about hitreg cheating, its still abotu aim, its quite harder to stay ona runnign target at 800m with lasers in a single section. o speed here is life vs a few weapons.

yes yes, engines should work a bit different they do not correctly affect the mechs at all. you can put in so many weight in an asault, but the outcome is quite pitiful. And that they affect torso twist rate is kinda also weird.

maybe every mech should have a "speed cap" because gyros can'T go past that speed, and further weight is then making the engine more tanky but that may require engine critting again. maybe like adding 1HP to the internals per 5 ratings. lights would then by % benefit a lot more of this, especially with XL's. and clanners dont at all because they can't go above stock size. STD could even be buiffed to 2HP would truly mmake zombies tanky.

Adamski, on 30 March 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

Lose 1 ST and become a IS STD, lose 2 ST and become an IS XL.

Get a tissue for your issue and stop crying.

is standard dies when CT is dead, a clanemch also when CT is left. this is not a correct comparison.

difficult topic at all, but I think the general clan XL debuff will nto lead to any further improvement at all.

Edited by Lily from animove, 30 March 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Gyrok]

Karl Streiger, on 30 March 2015 - 12:08 AM, said:

ok wait - you ask for - locked stock structure?
So example - stock UrbanMech locked for STD60, SHS and Standard Structure?
Or do you ask for a FireStarter - with interchangeable -pods - but locked Clan 210XL - plus FF plus ES plus JJs?

Considering the STD the better option - only works for the Gargoyle - not the 400 - but any STD <= 340

But while you like strange comparisons:
So lets predict you can change your engine towards a STD of your liking, add/remove ES and FF add/remove heatsinks minimum of 10, add/remove jumpjets. Remove fixed equipment - but still you are not allowed to change the XL rating
Should i tell you that you still want more? After all that stuff - you will ask for exact that stuff that is still locked -the Engine Rating. because after all that stuff -the KitFox and the Adder didn't have changed much - nor does the TimberWolf or the StormCrow.
So you may get this too - for ClanBattleMechs with interchangeable OmniPods - but i can predict we will see:
only Hankyus, ShadowCats, StormCrows, TimberWolfs and Executioners afterwards.

And there is your problem.

You still ignore Clans -44 planets over the weekend.

[Karl Streiger]

Gyrok, on 30 March 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

You still ignore Clans -44 planets over the weekend.

So what? CW isn't relevant for balancing.
The Clans invading half the IS after the CEASE fire change - and at this time the IS had the "OP" Thundergod and Wubverine.
So this argument is pure nonsense

[Gyrok]

Karl Streiger, on 30 March 2015 - 06:48 AM, said:

So what? CW isn't relevant for balancing.
The Clans invading half the IS after the CEASE fire change - and at this time the IS had the "OP" Thundergod and Wubverine.
So this argument is pure nonsense

The "Clamz OP pls Nerf!" crowd is citing CW as the very source of the imbalance, so please stop shifting the goal posts.

[Karl Streiger]

Gyrok, on 30 March 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

The "Clamz OP pls Nerf!" crowd is citing CW as the very source of the imbalance, so please stop shifting the goal posts.

I never care about other persons agenda - i have my own - they are wrong your are wrong - simple is simple

[Gyrok]

Karl Streiger, on 30 March 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

I never care about other persons agenda - i have my own - they are wrong your are wrong - simple is simple

You just said above, CW is not relevant, except when you say it is. The weekend event is not relevant, but clans expansion after the ceasefire change is...? Moving the goalposts much?

EDIT: So basically, your *opinion* is you are right, and everyone else is wrong, because you are just going to dismiss the relevant facts.

Edited by Gyrok, 30 March 2015 - 07:19 AM.

[Adamski]

Gyrok, on 30 March 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

You just said above, CW is not relevant, except when you say it is. The weekend event is not relevant, but clans expansion after the ceasefire change is...? Moving the goalposts much?

EDIT: So basically, your *opinion* is you are right, and everyone else is wrong, because you are just going to dismiss the relevant facts.

CW is only relevant when looking at the Meta Data of each teams collective Elo and win% in CW. Planetary Conquest is meaningless except to show population imbalance.

[Karl Streiger]

Well you seem to have a habbit to missunderstand the others, nothing unique but anyhow.

I just said your reasoning poor Clams Wopfs - because poor Clams Wopfs did loose 44 worlds during weekend - is as senseless as to say Clams Wopfs are Op because they captured planets enmasse while Is Mechs where off balance with Thundergod and Wubveribe

About agenda - i don't say I'm right you are wrong - there is always a chance to convince me that I'm wrong - but you did not even get close to convince me - neither that Is is complete Op nor Clams Op, nor your Trial mech idideas, nor that its a good idea to remove Torso Xl death for Is nor to give Is LFE

[Gyrok]

Adamski, on 30 March 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

CW is only relevant when looking at the Meta Data of each teams collective Elo and win% in CW. Planetary Conquest is meaningless except to show population imbalance.

By your logic, then CW is not a valid reason to use to state that Clans are OP.

So, by that premise...how can you even justify that clans are OP at all?

[Adamski]

Gyrok, on 30 March 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

By your logic, then CW is not a valid reason to use to state that Clans are OP.

So, by that premise...how can you even justify that clans are OP at all?

CW is relevant because its the only game mode where the mechs/pilots are sorted by faction.

Also, I've never said Clans were OP, I want all IS & Clan mechs to be competitive, which means adjustments down for the top performers and adjustments up for under performers.

The fact that you want TBR & SCR (and soon ACH, SHC, & EBJ) to remain at current power levels until every other Clan mech is buffed up, but were RAGING about TDR-9S when there are MANY IS mechs that are trash tier, shows how slanted and self serving your arguments are.

[Gyrok]

Adamski, on 30 March 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

CW is relevant because its the only game mode where the mechs/pilots are sorted by faction.

Also, I've never said Clans were OP, I want all IS & Clan mechs to be competitive, which means adjustments down for the top performers and adjustments up for under performers.

The fact that you want TBR & SCR (and soon ACH, SHC, & EBJ) to remain at current power levels until every other Clan mech is buffed up, but were RAGING about TDR-9S when there are MANY IS mechs that are trash tier, shows how slanted and self serving your arguments are.

Actually, no...

I have lobbied for IS mechs to get buffs...in fact, my favorite light mech, is still secretly the TDK commando.

I lobbied against -50% ERPPC heat gen quirks...especially for a mech people could bring 3 of to CW.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lily from animove, on 29 March 2015 - 11:53 PM, said:

all you see is a very very biased picture, your filtered "pros" lists you spammed everywhere for clantech proofes this.



so still you have not answered me this questionf or the last 2 times:

would you really pilot any is light with clanconstruction rules if you had clantech on them?
you know fixed stiock equip, fixed stcik engine soze but "immortal" XL?

cmon show me those builds mr "big picture".

The big picture is, majority of clans are broken and bad mechs and the "superior" Xl is worthless when the sze doesn't fit, or a STD would be a better option.

The statement your Hero, Gyrok made was the IS has "All the ******* advantages", which my reply categorically proved was not true. Shifting the goalposts doesn't change it. And since i have a full Clan account, with Clan Lights, aka, locked components and Clan Tech, that I use the Lights on regularly? Why would it bother me if IS Mechs had locked components... IF THEY HAD OMNI HARDPOINTS AND CLAN TECH?

Sorry, I don't need to milk lag shield to play the game, so slower than top speed Lights don't exactly fill me with dread.

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 March 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

The statement your Hero, Gyrok made was the IS has "All the ******* advantages", which my reply categorically proved was not true. Shifting the goalposts doesn't change it. And since i have a full Clan account, with Clan Lights, aka, locked components and Clan Tech, that I use the Lights on regularly? Why would it bother me if IS Mechs had locked components... IF THEY HAD OMNI HARDPOINTS AND CLAN TECH?

Sorry, I don't need to milk lag shield to play the game, so slower than top speed Lights don't exactly fill me with dread.

I actually have a few VERY niche builds for the badder that work, and 1 ECM/PPC build on the MLX that is not bad...the KFX is just an ECM/AMS boat outside the UAC5+3ERML build.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 30 March 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

I lobbied against -50% ERPPC heat gen quirks...especially for a mech people could bring 3 of to CW.

yet vehemently have fought any change to the SCR and TBR which have been demonstrably just as OP........

yup, no slant or agenda here.