124 replies to this topic

[Aiden Skye]

It's really getting annoying. No matter how many nerfs are delt out, some people just are never satisfied and just continue to complain and demand more nerfs. It's like cockroaches, just where do these people keep crawling out from? I play both IS and Clan, and I love my favorite chassis on both sides...but man when is it gonna stop? The gap between Clan and IS isn't the vast chasm as some would have you believe.

I like clan mechs. I usually don't go with the popular meta cheese builds that are hot and what not. I play what I feel is fun for me. But the fact of the matter is, all Clan mechs and all load-outs are not created equal. You issue a blanket nerf to bring a top teir mech and load-out in line, it just makes all others that are not up to that standard, worse.

- Clan mechs are supposed to have the range advantage at the cost of hotter, longer burning weapons. But most of the game-play I experience in MWO is face hugging death balling, thanks to the plethora of urban maps and choke-points and nascar pugging.. Where is the range advantage then?

- I still don't see the point of clan lights. With their lack of speed and armor I really consider them coffins on legs. No real reason to run any of them short of just being a fan of the chassis. Might as well take a stormcrow and be almost as fast, or an IS light.

-Clan AC's are still garbage and LRM's lag way behind IS chassis quirked for LRM's. Laser vomit is just straight up boring.

So my main point is, how about we take all the useless, pointless, placeholder, clan tech we have in our arsenals actually useful before even more nerfs are dealt out?

Edited by W A R K H A N, 17 March 2015 - 07:54 PM.

[El Bandito]

Why not do both at the same time? Giving quirks to weaker Clan mechs while doing global nerfs.

Oh wait, they are doing it right now. Rest assured, more quirks are bound to follow.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 March 2015 - 07:59 PM.

[Mcgral18]

CLAMS OP! PLZ NERF

BLANKET NERF THEM ALL11!!!1

Of course, as long as you ignore the Badder, Cute Fox, Myth Lynx, Ice Fridge, NoVa, Summoner, and Mr Gargles.
They all deserve blanket nerfs because two robots are exceedingly good, and in no way should be specifically targeted.

Nope, Blanket Nerfs are without a doubt the way to go. Who cares about 54% of the Clam robots, because 15% are quite good.

[El Bandito]

Mcgral18, on 17 March 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

CLAMS OP! PLZ NERF

BLANKET NERF THEM ALL11!!!1

Of course, as long as you ignore the Badder, Cute Fox, Myth Lynx, Ice Fridge, NoVa, Summoner, and Mr Gargles.
They all deserve blanket nerfs because two robots are exceedingly good, and in no way should be specifically targeted.

Nope, Blanket Nerfs are without a doubt the way to go. Who cares about 54% of the Clam robots, because 15% are quite good.

Are the so called "bad" Clan mechs (aside from the Lynx) really that bad? I see them frequently perform no less than IS mechs in the pug queue--especially the so called "Badder". In case of CW, it is more like the Holy Quadrinity is too good not to pick, rather than the rest are bad.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 March 2015 - 08:08 PM.

[ThrashInc]

I mean, you're the guy who complains about not being able to 1v1 a light in Dire Wolf lol.

But yes, they are that bad. Pug/group queue is a zero percent reflection of effectiveness.

No map or game mode allows clan mechs to stay at range - meaning that all fights happen within IS LL range. All IS mechs are quirked to perform better at this range than clan mechs.

It's really a statement as to how bad most players are that they don't understand this, ignoring the people who do understand it and proselytize otherwise for their own gain.

[El Bandito]

ThrashInc, on 17 March 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

I mean, you're the guy who complains about not being able to 1v1 a light in Dire Wolf lol.

Anything wrong with my Dakka Whale not being able to kill a Light 1v1 at close range fight? CUAC5s simply spread damage too much.

And you still have not answered my question--since CW maps do allow the Clanners to stay at range. I will only be convinced if the Clanners actually abandon their meta gods and try other mechs vs. the IS mechs. But I know they wont. Gotta pick the cherry on top and call the rest trash.

In any case, quirk passes are coming to help them.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 March 2015 - 08:22 PM.

[Red1769]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

Are the so called "bad" Clan mechs (aside from the Lynx) really that bad? I see them frequently perform no less than IS mechs in the pug queue--especially the so called "Badder". In case of CW, it is more like the Holy Quadrinity is too good not to pick, rather than the rest are bad.

I'd argue the Summoner. Some minor love (*stares at the Jump Jet quirks it should probably have) and it'll be pretty solid. The Nope-Va could use heat gen quirks, and it'll be a glass cannon, but at least would have something to boast about over the SC...maybe. The PeaceDove is actually pretty solid I'm finding. Aside from the Prime without having to mix and match omni-pods. I'd still take my Misery or any other Stalker over it, but it's not as bad as others seem to think it is.

The Badder and Cute Fox? Pocket Mediums...they need to be really unnoticed to be effective from what I've noticed. The Cute Fox has more utility though. Those two are pretty bad...to be good pocket mediums, they need weapon quirks, the Badder Prime especially...*stares at the quirks it got*

Otherwise, yeah, they really are. I'd say there's a good reason I haven't seen a Gargles since it first came out.

Edited by Red1769, 17 March 2015 - 08:22 PM.

[MechaBattler]

You're right. They should just nerf the Stormcrow, Timberwolf and Hellbringer. Since they are the most dominant mechs in the game.

As for lasers burn time and heat. We're talking about .25 of a second difference. 2 more heat. For greater range. Lighter weight. Less slots in some cases. And generally 2 more points of damage that completely offset the burn time difference. The heat is negated on the Holy Trinity because they have the tonnage and slots to load up on heatsinks.

The Timberwolf has the firepower of an assault. The Stormcrow has the firepower of a high end heavy. And they out range most of their opponents. Unless their opponents try to build for range. Also they have all of their armor and mobility.

Edited by MechaBattler, 17 March 2015 - 08:38 PM.

[luxebo]

W A R K H A N, on 17 March 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

- Clan mechs are supposed to have the range advantage at the cost of hotter, longer burning weapons. But most of the game-play I experience in MWO is face hugging death balling, thanks to the plethora of urban maps and choke-points and nascar pugging.. Where is the range advantage then?
- I still don't see the point of clan lights. With their lack of speed and armor I really consider them coffins on legs. No real reason to run any of them short of just being a fan of the chassis. Might as well take a stormcrow and be almost as fast, or an IS light.
-Clan AC's are still garbage and LRM's lag way behind IS chassis quirked for LRM's. Laser vomit is just straight up boring.
So my main point is, how about we take all the useless, pointless, placeholder, clan tech we have in our arsenals actually useful before even more nerfs are dealt out?

I agree that some Clan mechs are truly struggling... but:
-Clan's range advantage comes in severe handy in CW. A pug brawling IS team against a comp 12 man laser vomiting with 4 ER LL per mech is pretty much game over for the waves of DDCs that the IS send.
-You'll see the point of the lights when the Arctic Cheeter is coming. Well really see less point in the other lights while Cheeter takes out the entire meta alone, maybe with a niche Shadow Cat. Even Firestarter might be dethroned.
-Lurms are gonna either rule or suck in any case; the LRMs either side have their own niche niche niche purpose. Either way both sides need a serious rework on Lurms.
-Well Clan ACs aren't absolute garbage but they need help. Russ said to buff Clan regular AC's velocity, but I don't know if it actually is buffed at this point.

Regardless, we need a stronger overall med/heavy on the IS side, while you guys need some niches for some of the underused mechs. Especially poor poor poor Mist Lynx. It's a sad day when it didn't even get quirks.

Oh yeah and you guys get Wave 3. All useful as heck mechs. Executioner maybe on the niche side, depends on MASC and depends on if movement archetypes change or not. Shadow Cat depends on MASC really, otherwise Ice Fridge 2.0, just like lore! Cauldron gets more pod space than the Garg or the Timber, perhaps making the Timber/Hellbringer somewhat useless? Questionable, as dual high mounted gauss with more ammo and more speed than any of the other mechs Clan/IS... well RIP Jagermech.

But with Wave 3 anything not in Wave 3 or the quadruple godfathers might start to suffer. Even the Timber God might with the Cauldron in place.

Oh yeah and I'm not asking for a nerf in any of the godfathers. We just need MOAR GODFATHERS, MOAR MECHJESUSES. HURRAH FOR AWESOMES AND MIST LYNX IN COMP PLAY!!!!!!!

I want to see em both in tier 1 soon. TM.

Edited by luxebo, 17 March 2015 - 08:35 PM.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

Why not do both at the same time? Giving quirks to weaker Clan mechs while doing global nerfs.

Oh wait, they are doing it right now. Rest assured, more quirks are bound to follow.

Yes, a 1% Clan quirk is just absolutely fabulous. It's so much better than a 50% IS quirk.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 17 March 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

Yes, a 1% Clan quirk is just absolutely fabulous. It's so much better than a 50% IS quirk.

1. That's for individual omnipods.

2. Russ stated that more will follow. Since he learned form the 50% IS quirks, it is a progress I suppose.

[Red1769]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

1. That's for individual omnipods.

2. Russ stated that more will follow. Since he learned form the 50% IS quirks, it is a progress I suppose.

1. That's no excuse.

2. True. But most players weren't asking for that anyway. They were asking more along the lines of 5% to 7.5% per pod. Also, notice that these were pretty specific, and not split into half general, half specific. So there is that to consider.

[ThrashInc]

luxebo, on 17 March 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

-Clan's range advantage comes in severe handy in CW. A pug brawling IS team against a comp 12 man laser vomiting with 4 ER LL per mech is pretty much game over for the waves of DDCs that the IS send.

A pug range clan team against a comp 12 man with brawl (read: any) IS mechs is pretty much game over for the waves of Timberwolves and Stormcrows that the clans send.

See, I can't say "a pug brawl clan team..." because there is no such mech on the clan side.

[Pjwned]

Mcgral18, on 17 March 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

CLAMS OP! PLZ NERF

BLANKET NERF THEM ALL11!!!1

Of course, as long as you ignore the Badder, Cute Fox, Myth Lynx, Ice Fridge, NoVa, Summoner, and Mr Gargles.
They all deserve blanket nerfs because two robots are exceedingly good, and in no way should be specifically targeted.

Nope, Blanket Nerfs are without a doubt the way to go. Who cares about 54% of the Clam robots, because 15% are quite good.

What nerf(s) would you propose for the top tier clan mechs that are not completely asinine then? Actual penalties (rather than a minor annoyance at worst) for losing 20% of your engine is appropriate, and if other clan mechs need some extra assistance as a result of higher penalties then they can have it after things are adjusted properly.

Edited by Pjwned, 18 March 2015 - 12:13 AM.

[ThrashInc]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

And you still have not answered my question--since CW maps do allow the Clanners to stay at range. I will only be convinced if the Clanners actually abandon their meta gods and try other mechs vs. the IS mechs. But I know they wont. Gotta pick the cherry on top and call the rest trash.

CW doesn't allow you to stay at range. There is an objective with short range firing lines/terrain/obstacles preventing a Timberwolf from sitting at 850m and bursting full damage C-ERLL into whatever potato mech someone is piloting.

As soon as you're inside the gate, you're inside IS LL range. When you're inside IS LL range, trading with the IS is absolutely bananas. Shorter beam time, shorter recycle, and less heat. After that, you're getting mauled by -1N's (also lol at this mech still being a thing with 2% adder buffs)

Also, if we're going to pretend that the difference between IS and Clan lasers is only "0.25" duration are we also going to pretend that quirks don't exist? lol. My 4N fires LL's faster than a C-ERML for less heat and more damage.

[Brody319]

Well its just as much the whine warriors as it is PGI.

They should know by now that blanket nerfs do not work, but they do it.

Blanket nerf JJ and for most chassis they are still trash.
Blanket nerf clan lasers and suddenly chassis that were "okay" become "Trash tier"

Don't know how many more times we gotta go through this before PGI is just willing to fix the problem.

[Lily from animove]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

Why not do both at the same time? Giving quirks to weaker Clan mechs while doing global nerfs.

Oh wait, they are doing it right now. Rest assured, more quirks are bound to follow.

No buffs will ever close these gaps, because they are huge due to the construction rules. the Is chassis soften more by differences due to having full engine rating access and ES/FF available. and they don't have fixed equip. Now you nerf a clanmech by a "one nerf for all" that is very much an already bad fixed loadout. The quirks needed to make this mecj working properly will require values making no sense anymore.

El Bandito, on 17 March 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Anything wrong with my Dakka Whale not being able to kill a Light 1v1 at close range fight? CUAC5s simply spread damage too much.

And you still have not answered my question--since CW maps do allow the Clanners to stay at range. I will only be convinced if the Clanners actually abandon their meta gods and try other mechs vs. the IS mechs. But I know they wont. Gotta pick the cherry on top and call the rest trash.

In any case, quirk passes are coming to help them.

there is enough osbtactles to ALWAYS allow the IS to get in range when attacking in cover.
And there is no where for the clanners to go and hide at range if IS is defending behind the gates.

The only reason why clanners stay at range and are able to shoot the IS is, when the IS is going to make sniperduells vs mechs who cna do that job better. When clanners cna stay at range while the IS has the faster chassis and maps have plenty of terrain cover, then the IS is just playing their mechs wrong.

And then they come whining at the forum baout evil clanners, then we clanners tell them how they should do it better, but instead they flame us being wrong and continue QQ'ing. Too many are stuck in thier habit not willing to change their playstyle.

[Vassago Rain]

A blo blo blo.

Sorry, but you're getting gimped. No one'd give this game a chance on steam if one side so obviously outclasses the other.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 18 March 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

A blo blo blo.

Sorry, but you're getting gimped. No one'd give this game a chance on steam if one side so obviously outclasses the other.

I mean this from the bottom of my heart. **** Steam.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ozealot, on 18 March 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

Honestly, I'm done with reasoning. You can't stop this. PGI are IS fans, old enough to be the kind of fans that loved the real old battltech stuff, the kind of fans that were annoyed when the Clans were introduced. It shows. Additionally, obviously being a caste driven semi fascist warrior society is not as popular as it was. Main community is IS loyalist. The quirks testify this, don't they? I mean first they throw in that TDR PPC monster and now they talk about iterative? These guys may not be the brightest but that is intended trolling. You really think they didn't see that coming? You really think they are so stupid they really think 2% quirks are worth anything? They can take that crap and go away. Now there will be morons who talk sh*t like "but you have quirks too..." I'M SO ANGRY, you wouldn't believe it.

So I'm getting over it, because that's not worth it. It's just a game.

How old does that have to be? I'm 49. I started in CBT when there was no Clans. I'm a Lyran and I don't want Clanners Nerfed any more... I didn't even want them Nerfed to begin with.