124 replies to this topic

[Idalgos]

Aren't you losing part of your firepower with losing ST? Or everyone runs assimetrical build?

From my expirience, any mech that lost his ST will be dead very soon anyway.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yea, these terrible Clan nerfs vicious clan nerfs. Now an 89kph clan mech can only do 81kph when a third of it's engine is blown away. How does it seem just that with a third of an engine GONE, speed tweak is negated. Clan mechs are crippled now. So unfair....so unfair.

[Nasinil]

Same BS all over again. As i mentioned before in another thread my Clan mechs are NOT better performers than the IS counterparts. I played Clan mechs a while now and i don´t see any reason to justify more nerfs. The range adwantage is good and comes at the cost of alot more heat. CERLL is almost useless in pug games. Build limitations Fixed JJ and so on. So when will the whine stop? They want clan mechs to be walking practice targets? I see no reason to support the "A clan mech killed me NERF it !!!" fraction. Did someone even realises that this game is getting buffed nerfed buffed nerfed nerfed to death. CLAN mechs are all over the line expensive and i dont want em to be collectors items not taken into battle anymore. And at last i never had the feeling to be underpowered against Clan mechs in my IS mechs.

[Paigan]

I can't take someone serious who writes his name with all-capitals and spaces after each letter.
It's annoying as hell to read.

[Gyrok]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Anything wrong with my Dakka Whale not being able to kill a Light 1v1 at close range fight? CUAC5s simply spread damage too much.

And you still have not answered my question--since CW maps do allow the Clanners to stay at range. I will only be convinced if the Clanners actually abandon their meta gods and try other mechs vs. the IS mechs. But I know they wont. Gotta pick the cherry on top and call the rest trash.

In any case, quirk passes are coming to help them.

Aside from Boreal in CW and Alpine in pubs, which maps can you keep range up that give you a way to sustain that range?

Oh...wait...none...and even Alpine and Boreal have areas where cover comes right up to the better spots to snipe if you know what you are doing.

[Gyrok]

Idalgos, on 18 March 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

Aren't you losing part of your firepower with losing ST? Or everyone runs assimetrical build?

From my expirience, any mech that lost his ST will be dead very soon anyway.

You know, you could be dead, or, you could move to the back of the pack and keep up and just poke when you can.

There are lots of asymmetrical builds on clans, but most of the laser based ones run entirely too hot when you lose 50%+ of your DHS and take a 20% penalty.

The reason no one really complained about the heat penalty before was, honestly, because most of us thought it would shut all of you up. It is bad enough that you run around in a LASER BOAT, with HOTTER WEAPONS, and when you lose a ST, you get EVEN HOTTER LASERS AFTER LOSING 50% OF YOUR DHS!!!

Take a look at this build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...10f6d9017e69782

If you lose your shield side, you lose 11 DHS, of those...3 True DHS. Any idea how hot that mech now becomes after you lost half your DHS, and then have 20% penalties on top of that? You can barely chainfire...seriously...

[Verkhne]

I wonder if PGI is purposely keeping most clan chassis bad. This will potentially have two benefits for them: 1) overplay of good chassis will allow their eventual nerf, 2) the current wave 3 may have boosted sales as they may be "salvation" mechs.

[Lily from animove]

Paigan, on 18 March 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

I can't take someone serious who writes his name with all-capitals and spaces after each letter.
It's annoying as hell to read.

So that defines a players credibility? His pilot skills are more of a matter because it shows if he can actually work well with mechs or not, and if he is able to understand what he speaks about.

Just having a glimpse into the IS section looking what builds they do thinking is good, gives me horrible visions and explaisn why clans get nerfed.

IS palyers need to lern building proper mechs first.

[Mawai]

Honestly, my hope is that PGI is ignoring all the forum angst and fan boys and are using the NUMBERS they have in their database of matches including ...

- overall mech effectiveness for every mech and variant - kills/assists/damage - over the entire player base for CW, group and solo queues
- overall clan vs IS mech effectiveness
- mech role effectiveness based on bonuses received for role based actions
- frequency and use of consumables

Based on those NUMBERS, if PGI is still nerfing clans it is because they still need nerfing to bring them into line with IS mechs.

I realize that in terms of lore the clan mechs should utterly annihilate IS mechs. Two stars vs 3 lances would NOT be a fair fight with un-normalized clan tech ... BUT this does not work with the game setup in MWO with public solo and group queues that do not split IS and clan mechs onto different teams ... and PGI can NOT do that because it would require constantly equal numbers of IS and clan players in order to avoid huge queue times for one of the sides. As a result, MWO MUST try to balance clan mechs vs IS mechs so that they are at least roughly comparable.

As it is, Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Dire Whale and Hellbringer are generally more effective than any IS mech of comparable tonnage.

This is why the clan quirks seem almost negligibly small ... they are also only the first iteration.

----------------

On the topic of clan lights .. they fill a support and close scout role in clan forces. They do it pretty well. They are comparable to the new Panther on the IS side with a top speed in the 115 range. They are better armored and carry more heavy weapons than the fast IS lights like the Jenner/Raven/Firestarter. I've done pretty well in my KItfox with various builds ... it can be effective but it just doesn't have the same playstyle as the fast IS lights.

[El Bandito]

Gyrok, on 18 March 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

You know, you could be dead, or, you could move to the back of the pack and keep up and just poke when you can.

There are lots of asymmetrical builds on clans, but most of the laser based ones run entirely too hot when you lose 50%+ of your DHS and take a 20% penalty.

The reason no one really complained about the heat penalty before was, honestly, because most of us thought it would shut all of you up. It is bad enough that you run around in a LASER BOAT, with HOTTER WEAPONS, and when you lose a ST, you get EVEN HOTTER LASERS AFTER LOSING 50% OF YOUR DHS!!!

Take a look at this build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...10f6d9017e69782

If you lose your shield side, you lose 11 DHS, of those...3 True DHS. Any idea how hot that mech now becomes after you lost half your DHS, and then have 20% penalties on top of that? You can barely chainfire...seriously...

At least Clan XL mech would be alive. Both builds have their ups and downs. If you do not want to over heat often after XL torso loss, then don't run asymmetrical build.

Besides, neither you nor I got the actual Clan vs IS numbers in CW. PGI has it, and is doing something about it.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 March 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[ThrashInc]

Mawai, on 18 March 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Honestly, my hope is that PGI is ignoring all the forum angst and fan boys and are using the NUMBERS they have in their database of matches including ...

- overall mech effectiveness for every mech and variant - kills/assists/damage - over the entire player base for CW, group and solo queues
- overall clan vs IS mech effectiveness
- mech role effectiveness based on bonuses received for role based actions
- frequency and use of consumables


As it is, Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Dire Whale and Hellbringer are generally more effective than any IS mech of comparable tonnage.

1. I hope not. I could care less about RP, I don't know **** about BT or TT and I don't really care other than to see what type of new mech I can kill people with in the future. I recently switched to CSJ because honestly, I think success in CW boils down to lack of choice on the clan side. This lack of choice makes it so it's easy to drop in a game with people in mechs that don't have bad builds and that's probably 75% of the battle right there.

My IS drop deck is comparable and even better in a lot of scenarios. There are IS mechs I would drop Stormcrows and Timberwolves for.

That said, if you think about my statement and what it implies, I'm also inferring that IS players use bad builds which can mean they are new, bad players, or some other alternatives. Datamining information to determine quirks is almost certainly tainted by this.

2. Datamining would (separately) be tainted by players who are just not good in general. How do you kill a Timberwolf? In about 6 seconds, depending on your mech, you can rip both its arms off. How do most people try to kill Timberwolves? Shoot CT, shoot legs because OMG HE JUMPED???, shoot LT, shoot RT, shoot CT (by this point you're probably dead), shoot legs because OMG HE JUMPED??? You get the picture.

I love my IS mechs, I'd probably still be in an IS faction if every time I dropped I didn't have to read 4 separate people telling me to press R because they have 4100 LRMs. You don't see that on the clan side.

[Gyrok]

El Bandito, on 18 March 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

At least Clan XL mech would be alive. Both builds have their ups and downs. If you do not want to over heat often after XL torso loss, then don't run asymmetrical build.

Besides, neither you nor I got the actual Clan vs IS numbers in CW. PGI has it, and is doing something about it.

CW is the LAST thing they should look at.

In my experience, 1 out of perhaps 15 matches do we actually get an organized drop from the IS. EVERYTHING ELSE, 14 of 15 drops, are pubs with maybe a group of 2-3 mixed in.

Of course they get rolled by a 12 man on comms...is anyone surprised by that in the group queue? Just because they get 4 waves does not change the outcome at all.

There is no elo, and there is no matchmaking in CW. You get what you had in the old group queue before...surprised? You should not be.

They should run more public tests before they do anything, and the bad clan mechs need buffs badly before that.

[Lily from animove]

El Bandito, on 18 March 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

At least Clan XL mech would be alive. Both builds have their ups and downs. If you do not want to over heat often after XL torso loss, then don't run asymmetrical build.

Besides, neither you nor I got the actual Clan vs IS numbers in CW. PGI has it, and is doing something about it.

so clan pilots if they just tryharded more than IS pilots in their weird broken builds will not get shafted?

and CW matches hopefully do noit even count into these statistics, because half of these are not even about fighting its just rushing into the objectoves, LOL. CWI floods the objectves with Timbers, done in single wave. The XL nerf will not even change this.

Gyrok, on 18 March 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

CW is the LAST thing they should look at.

In my experience, 1 out of perhaps 15 matches do we actually get an organized drop from the IS. EVERYTHING ELSE, 14 of 15 drops, are pubs with maybe a group of 2-3 mixed in.

Of course they get rolled by a 12 man on comms...is anyone surprised by that in the group queue? Just because they get 4 waves does not change the outcome at all.

There is no elo, and there is no matchmaking in CW. You get what you had in the old group queue before...surprised? You should not be.

They should run more public tests before they do anything, and the bad clan mechs need buffs badly before that.

yeha they need long term public tests, and divide is/clan for like 4 days inncluding weekend to get some proper data. anything else is juts no proper data.

[zeta44]

W A R K H A N, on 17 March 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

- I still don't see the point of clan lights. With their lack of speed and armor I really consider them coffins on legs. No real reason to run any of them short of just being a fan of the chassis. Might as well take a stormcrow and be almost as fast, or an IS light.

an SRM6, S-SRM6, LRG laser adder is a powerful adder. never forget

[Verkhne]

Paigan, on 18 March 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

I can't take someone serious who writes his name with all-capitals and spaces after each letter.
It's annoying as hell to read.

W A R K H A N can do wonders in a dual erPPC Timber, not many can (Coldreive?), so I consider him a skilled player.

[Johnny Z]

Gyrok, on 18 March 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

CW is the LAST thing they should look at.

In my experience, 1 out of perhaps 15 matches do we actually get an organized drop from the IS. EVERYTHING ELSE, 14 of 15 drops, are pubs with maybe a group of 2-3 mixed in.

Of course they get rolled by a 12 man on comms...is anyone surprised by that in the group queue? Just because they get 4 waves does not change the outcome at all.

There is no elo, and there is no matchmaking in CW. You get what you had in the old group queue before...surprised? You should not be.

They should run more public tests before they do anything, and the bad clan mechs need buffs badly before that.

I agree. The star map win loss ratio doesnt show an accurate picture of Clan vrs IS balance.

Doesnt change the fact the Omni XL engine is so far from being balanced with the IS engine it isnt funny.(ok its a little funny because i get to make jokes about crutch wielding clan pilots but other than that it isnt very funny) This needs to be changed. Clan cant change their engines true, so some extra durability for clan engines is fair. Thats not what is in game now.

About the OP. I agree there shouldnt be any more blanket nerfs to clans once the engines are balances. The quirks have done a good job with balancing the equipment and weapons already. More minor quicks will be coming also for anything thats messed up. Thats what they said anyway.

The top 4 Clan mechs need nerfs then maybe Clan pilots can take pride in their mechs again. Minor nerf for Direwolf, not sure minor or nothing for loki, heavy nerf for storm crow. medium nerf for tw.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 March 2015 - 07:20 AM.

[MerryIguana]

Ozealot, on 18 March 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

Honestly, I'm done with reasoning. You can't stop this. PGI are IS fans, old enough to be the kind of fans that loved the real old battltech stuff, the kind of fans that were annoyed when the Clans were introduced. It shows. Additionally, obviously being a caste driven semi fascist warrior society is not as popular as it was. Main community is IS loyalist. The quirks testify this, don't they? I mean first they throw in that TDR PPC monster and now they talk about iterative? These guys may not be the brightest but that is intended trolling. You really think they didn't see that coming? You really think they are so stupid they really think 2% quirks are worth anything? They can take that crap and go away. Now there will be morons who talk sh*t like "but you have quirks too..." I'M SO ANGRY, you wouldn't believe it.

So I'm getting over it, because that's not worth it. It's just a game.

I got over the intended trolling of clan launch, you can get over this. 6 months of curbstomping, matches were won/lost by the number of clan mechs on a side. But you go on believing there is an IS bias.

[Wren2773]

There is a simple fix to this issue. From my understanding it is mostly an issue with bringing multiple versions of top performing mechs in CW. The easiest fix would be to limit drop decks for CW to only allowing one version of each mech to be add to the drop deck. This must go for both IS and Clans to be fair. Also, this should only be implemented after Wave III is available for C-bills so Clan players will have enough decent options to fill out a drop deck. The TW and SCR are both excellent mechs and the ability to have multiple copies of them in a drop deck I believe is the cause of all this complaining. Nice thing about this, it also limits problem mechs on the IS side as well so it is fair all around.

[Mcgral18]

Wren2773, on 18 March 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

There is a simple fix to this issue. From my understanding it is mostly an issue with bringing multiple versions of top performing mechs in CW. The easiest fix would be to limit drop decks for CW to only allowing one version of each mech to be add to the drop deck. This must go for both IS and Clans to be fair. Also, this should only be implemented after Wave III is available for C-bills so Clan players will have enough decent options to fill out a drop deck. The TW and SCR are both excellent mechs and the ability to have multiple copies of them in a drop deck I believe is the cause of all this complaining. Nice thing about this, it also limits problem mechs on the IS side as well so it is fair all around.

Yet it doesn't even touch on the issue; TT construction rules screw the Bad robots over.

IS mechs completely ignore those rules, yet Clam robots are forced to keep them. I would gladly take an isXL in a Myth Lynx, for example, if it means it could compete with a Lolcust.

[Lily from animove]

Ozealot, on 18 March 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

And that's the hilarious part. Put in to balance the Clans, and now weapon adjustments (which are fine most often) where just the tip of the Iceberg and everything get's stomped. Fugg that. Wave 3 of the trilogy, very likely to be the last investement for me. Just look at the gift shop - clan reinforcements? And you can't even use your MC for that stuff? It's getting more and more wtf.

Just look again at the Timber, got nerfed because so many use it. You like Cheetah? Will get nerfed (will be the only light used anymore, look at the Kit Fox quirks with JJs, several 15% !!! nerfs). You like the Shadow Cat? Will get nerfed (because it will be played as a skirmisher with ECM - look at Cicada - which is annoying when done right, so there will be whine...). You like the Ebon Jaguar? Will get nerfed (will be used often because of it's agility and podspace potential with great customizability). You like the Executioner? Will get nerfed because of it's JJs and MASC (just look at the Victor and the Highlander...). That they don't have a clue how to implement MASC will be the final dealbreaker, believe me.

well, I do thnk the timber should still have been nerfed, because we need balance. But in the end, as a good palyer, you better not touch any mech anymore, because if many good palyers do this, its getting nerfed.
unfortunately now, all clans get nerfed because of a few good ones, GG big fail in the balance at all. And I doubt we as clans will be allowed to use masc on mechs not having one naturally. That means adder, Nova and gargoyle are the totally screwed mechs. And MDD with its giant St's.

Guess its time to save c-bills for a stalker and undust the phracts. But what then? do the IS then cry about gettign owned by the other IS faction where all the clanners went to?

We should all go liao and conquer the map from the bottom to the top showing the IS, their mechs potential. then we return to clanners and eat the giant sized liao bubble we created.