66 replies to this topic

[Reitrix]

Johnny Z, on 18 March 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

Does this work? If so why hasnt this been brought in before?

I would absolutely love for PGI to test that sort of thing with that fancy test server they put up.
Wouldn't take much effort, just slap a global hard limit of 35 on the Heat and see how the matches play out in the test server.

Im not the first to ask for a lower heat cap, Others (backed up with large amounts of maths and well reasoned posts) have made the request before.

[TwentyOne]

El Bandito, on 18 March 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

I still think the dominant Clan mechs such as the Timbie and Crow need chassis specific nerfs. Not only due to the omnipods etc, but them hitboxes man. I find it easier to take the Grasshopper out of commission than the Crow.

And yes, I mastered both the Crow and the TW, and yes, it felt like cheating when I drove them.

THANK YOU, someone with a brain on the forums *Gasp*

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Davers, on 18 March 2015 - 06:42 PM, said:

You know what mech would greatly benefit from Clan customization? The Timberwolf.

The Timber would benefit some from engine customization, but not from unlocking FF and Endo. Which is why I would propose a singular alternative engine. That way PGI could influence balance by dictating what the alternate engine could be.

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 18 March 2015 - 06:55 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Well, I decided to build anyway.

Nova, add Endo, upgrade to XL300, drop a single JJ.
You now have 15.5 tons of pod space, at the loss of exactly two Crit slots. Hand actuators could be removed and Endo slots put in their place, and the two DHS which now fit in the engine.
It also moves 107 with 4 JJs.

Ice Ferret could downgrade to a XL300, with the same 2 harwired DHS and move ~118 KPh with 17 tons of pod space. 8 more than it presently does, without much sacrifice, just 20 Kph. Not quite enough for the largest ballistics as an effective loadout, but if UAC10s ever became better. Can now boat lasers with adequate heatsinks.


Mr Gargles....oh, how TT construction rules hurt you. Downgrade to a 350XL, add Endo. Drop 2 DHS ( to fill the engine but not more).
Now, moving 78 Kph with 14 DHS and 34.5 tons of weapons.
Dual Gauss and 2 Med Pulses, with 65 rounds? Waste of heatsinks...but could always be removed. Dual LB20x on a semi fast chassis could be fun, but certainly not very effective.

Alternatively, the XL375 with 5 DHS, since Mr Gargles doesn't really have the hardpoints for effective use of dual ballistics+lazors. Moving at a faster 83.5, it can still mount 29 tons of weapons.
TimberGod levels, a tad above, without any JJs. However, more DHS can be added due to not having Endo.
Gauss(30)+6ERMLs with 23 Dubs
Laserspam could also be done, 2 LPLs, 4 ERMLs with 28 DHS (or swap DHS for more lasers)

Potent loadouts for Mr Gargles. If only you could shed your XL400.

[TwentyOne]

TheKillerWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

To derail all this and prove a point anyone watching MWOLN? only IS mechs in the game are a couple ravens and a firestarter... everything else is storm, timber, and hellbring.

shhhh, saying Clans are OP gets you flamed into oblivion on these forums.
Even if its ridiculously obvious

[Mcgral18]

Burktross, on 18 March 2015 - 06:38 PM, said:

The only thing that's thrown out is time, no?

Engine denominations.

TT is walking MPs*tonnage, up to 400 (or tonnage). Cannot exceed 400, so for example the Banshee is 95, 190, 285, 380.

MWO is whatever the duck you want, within the given range.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 18 March 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

Mr Gargles....oh, how TT construction rules hurt you. Downgrade to a 350XL, add Endo. Drop 2 DHS ( to fill the engine but not more).
Now, moving 78 Kph with 14 DHS and 34.5 tons of weapons.
Dual Gauss and 2 Med Pulses, with 65 rounds? Waste of heatsinks...but could always be removed. Dual LB20x on a semi fast chassis could be fun, but certainly not very effective.

Alternatively, the XL375 with 5 DHS, since Mr Gargles doesn't really have the hardpoints for effective use of dual ballistics+lazors. Moving at a faster 83.5, it can still mount 29 tons of weapons.
TimberGod levels, a tad above, without any JJs. However, more DHS can be added due to not having Endo.
Gauss(30)+6ERMLs with 23 Dubs
Laserspam could also be done, 2 LPLs, 4 ERMLs with 28 DHS (or swap DHS for more lasers)

Potent loadouts for Mr Gargles. If only you could shed your XL400.

Doug....I mean Mr Gargles wants 20 class ACs in the Clans to be better so it can brawl like no other. It was pretty much the only reason we used them in MW4:HC, smallest twin 20 carrier on the Clan side, had that great humanoid profile to spread damage and could still carry decent speed to get it close enough in time. If it had JJs it would be the Clan's Victor.

Though the option to run 12 SPL is always there too.

[Mcgral18]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 March 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Doug....I mean Mr Gargles wants 20 class ACs in the Clans to be better so it can brawl like no other. It was pretty much the only reason we used them in MW4:HC, smallest twin 20 carrier on the Clan side, had that great humanoid profile to spread damage and could still carry decent speed to get it close enough in time. If it had JJs it would be the Clan's Victor.

Though the option to run 12 SPL is always there too.

Double ballistics limit the hardpoints severely, which was an issue I found while building those.

12 lasers should make it a worse Nova, in a month. I'll probably go that route.

[CaptainScumBa11s]

TwentyOne, on 18 March 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

shhhh, saying Clans are OP gets you flamed into oblivion on these forums.
Even if its ridiculously obvious

ive seen that. the second game was pretty good it was basic ly firestarters vs kfxs and an adder and the clan mechs won

[One Medic Army]

I'd not be against opening up Endo+Ferro. All the best clan mechs already have their ideal Endo+Ferro configs, it'd be a boost to the poorly performing ones. The question is how do you deal with the dynamic crits, as allowing them to be fully dynamic starts boosting the power 4 again.

Opening up addition/removal of Engine DHS would, for instance, boost the Stormcrow significantly (it has no DHS in the engine, that's a lot of extra cooling potential right there).

Swapping engines would vastly buff both the Direwolf and the Timberwolf, one being sped up to non-whale status while still carrying huge weapons payload and a clan XL, and the other being able to down-engine to increase the pod space even more.

Edited by One Medic Army, 18 March 2015 - 07:33 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

One Medic Army, on 18 March 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

Opening up addition/removal of Engine DHS would, for instance, boost the Stormcrow significantly (it has no DHS in the engine, that's a lot of extra cooling potential right there).

Swapping engines would vastly buff both the Direwolf and the Timberwolf, one being sped up to non-whale status while still carrying huge weapons payload and a clan XL, and the other being able to down-engine to increase the pod space even more.

Yes but at the same time they are getting widespread nerfs because the restrictions are no longer an excuse to keep certain equipment or weapons overpowered. At the same time, the engine swap could be a little more restrictive than the IS since the omnipod system kind of ruins the role situation a little bit. In other words the Timber Wolf probably shouldn't be able to become a poor mans Night Gyr. As for engine DHS, if the ERMLs get nerfed a bit, you might not be as concerned about them running too many DHS and more worried about Gauss vomit builds more so.

[One Medic Army]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 March 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

Yes but at the same time they are getting widespread nerfs because the restrictions are no longer an excuse to keep certain equipment or weapons overpowered. At the same time, the engine swap could be a little more restrictive than the IS since the omnipod system kind of ruins the role situation a little bit. In other words the Timber Wolf probably shouldn't be able to become a poor mans Night Gyr. As for engine DHS, if the ERMLs get nerfed a bit, you might not be as concerned about them running too many DHS and more worried about Gauss vomit builds more so.

True, just opening up too many things means that PGI has to start looking at the clan weapons themselves, and maybe making them more equivalent to their IS counterparts, mainly for the energy weapons as the missiles and ballistics aren't that far apart between clan and IS.

[BARBAR0SSA]

One Medic Army, on 18 March 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

I'd not be against opening up Endo+Ferro. All the best clan mechs already have their ideal Endo+Ferro configs, it'd be a boost to the poorly performing ones. The question is how do you deal with the dynamic crits, as allowing them to be fully dynamic starts boosting the power 4 again.

Opening up addition/removal of Engine DHS would, for instance, boost the Stormcrow significantly (it has no DHS in the engine, that's a lot of extra cooling potential right there).

Swapping engines would vastly buff both the Direwolf and the Timberwolf, one being sped up to non-whale status while still carrying huge weapons payload and a clan XL, and the other being able to down-engine to increase the pod space even more.

What? Laser vomit(the one that everyone ******* about) maxes out every slot, downgrading engine could reduce heatsinks in engine making it even hotter and slower with no pod space freed up at all. Any engine swap doesn't free up space other than DHS engine slots

[Yokaiko]

shad0w4life, on 18 March 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

What? Laser vomit(the one that everyone ******* about) maxes out every slot, downgrading engine could reduce heatsinks in engine making it even hotter and slower with no pod space freed up at all. Any engine swap doesn't free up space other than DHS engine slots

Lower the engine I can dual gauss and add a stack of lasers.

[Adamski]

I really love the idea of opening up the Clan Mechlab with Ferro and Endo upgrades, and allowing them a single engine type for each chasses that they could swap to.

Timerwolf and Stormcrow could both have their optional engines be 25 rating higher than their current loadout.

Gargoyle and Summoner could both have 50 rating lower than current

Then allow all Clan mechs to add / remove jumpjets and engine heatsinks, as well as Flamers or BAP.

EDIT: Clan weapons really don't need a buff, their Gauss rifle weighs THREE TONs less than an IS version, and can be used for their front loaded pinpoint damage needs. Their missile launchers all weigh HALF the weight of the IS versions as compensation for streaming instead of clusters.

Edited by Adamski, 18 March 2015 - 11:53 PM.

[DivineEvil]

Increasing Clan Mech customization is not an option in my opinion. I don't see a reason for this. PGI has a clear determination to balance the IS and Clans using quirks, and for me it's a valid method. Increasing Clan AC velocity across the board, adding carefully chosen quirks to underperforming Clan mechs and omni-pods while also adding some positive and negative quirks to high-tier ones might just do the job. The question is just if PGI really has developed a philosophy around what quirks to give or not.

[Adamski]

I'll trust PGI's quirk system when they manage to balance IS mechs against other IS mechs. I'm not holding my breath.

[Lily from animove]

El Bandito, on 18 March 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

I still think the dominant Clan mechs such as the Timbie and Crow need chassis specific nerfs. Not only due to the omnipods etc, but them hitboxes man. I find it easier to take the Grasshopper out of commission than the Crow.

And yes, I mastered both the Crow and the TW, and yes, it felt like cheating when I drove them.

They needed nerfs since the beginning, and in my opinion they should have gotten nerfs before the IS even should have received buffs. But Decisions were made differently. and now we have loads of buffs and laods of nerfs that compete with each other. And everytime an adjustment is mad,e it has to be reevauated with all other mechs and all their other quirks, which is quite complex. The Thunderbolt was the example of how this can go wrong. One emch buffed many other IS mechs suddenly obsolete.

[Creovex]

El Bandito, on 18 March 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

I still think the dominant Clan mechs such as the Timbie and Crow need chassis specific nerfs. Not only due to the omnipods etc, but them hitboxes man. I find it easier to take the Grasshopper out of commission than the Crow.

And yes, I mastered both the Crow and the TW, and yes, it felt like cheating when I drove them.

My Enforcers have YET to lose to either.... explain that away before pushing for more nerfs

Edited by Creovex, 19 March 2015 - 04:00 AM.

[Johnny Z]

This may come as a surprise to some, but I am of the opinion that the only answer is a good old fashioned nerfing of the top 4 Omni mechs.