66 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Creovex, on 19 March 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

My Enforcers have YET to lose to either.... explain that away before pushing for more nerfs

1. Since I do not own Enforcers, I can only assume that Enforcers are OP. Nerf them PGI. Nerf them all.

2. I can also assume that you are lying since you provide no proof of your actions. Post a video, or at least your Enforcer stats.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 March 2015 - 04:09 AM.

[Creovex]

El Bandito, on 19 March 2015 - 04:04 AM, said:

1. Since I do not own Enforcers, I can only assume that Enforcers are OP. Nerf them PGI. Nerf them all.

3. I can also assume that you are lying since you provide no proof of your actions. Post a video.

If I wasn't posting from my phone I would provide tons of screenshots from my steam library. Believe it or not, but go try it yourself and see.

Edited by Creovex, 19 March 2015 - 04:42 AM.

[Adamski]

I think most of the Resistance mechs have benefited from the same great hitboxes that the Firestarter / Stormcrow / Timberwolf / Spider have.

I would love to see PGI redo the older chasses with the same treatment.

[Duke Nedo]

Imo clan vs IS balance can only ever be had if there is balance between IS and clan XL engines.

Unlocking clan engines sizes would be a good buff for the timberwolf. It's good, but it's not optimal imo. If I could I would happily transfer a few tons from engine to podspace on the timber...

[Raggedyman]

The only way to balance the mechs is to either significantly down-power the clan mechs so that they are of equal strength as the IS ones (ie, stop them being Clan Mechs as per the TT/lore) or stop having IS and clan mechs on the same side so that you can go to a 10 vs 12 match approach.

You can't have Actual Clan Mechs and mixed forces and balanced sides. It just doesn't work.

[Widowmaker1981]

OK, while i absolutely HATE this idea, since it completely removes all of the 'essense' of clan tech being better, the ONLY way to silence the stupid whiners that cant see how locked mechlab is a balancing factor is as follows:

1) Balance EVERY SINGLE ITEM with its opposing side item - this means EVERYTHING on a 1 to 1 basis. C-FF = IS-FF, C-DHS = IS DHS, C-ECM = IS-ECM, etc, etc - stats dont need to be identical, but taking tonnage into account they should be equal, or in other words 'more advanced' clan tech must be WORSE because its lighter/smaller. Youd need to add the IS ERML too. Make the C-XL = the IS XL, either by stopping IS dying on ST loss or making Clan die on single ST loss.

You probably cannot use beamtimes as a balancing factor because a lot of people are too stupid to realize how important they are and wont stop complaining, so all balance to be done on dmg/range/heat

2) Completely open clan customization to the same levels as IS, no more locked ANYTHING. (this includes allowing clan mechs to use STD engines if they so desire) (the Omnipod system can be compensation for the lack of standard MLs/PPCs/LLs)

3) Remove all quirks and start again, they are now only there to balance lighter mechs/bad hardpoint mechs up to the top level of their respective faction.

This is the only way to silence the whiners, they will never understand balancing one thing (C-XL) with another, different thing (No customisation)

EDIT:

To people that say use 10v12 or some such number disparity to allow superior clan tech, i say "GET A CLUE" - regardless of what you would do, or your mate you spoke to said, simple human psychology says that the MAJORITY of people will go to the superior tech supposedly MINORITY faction, because most people want to be the Hero, not the Zergling. If the side with less numbers needs more players to form a team, whats gonna happen? Bad Things.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 19 March 2015 - 05:09 AM.

[Adamski]

The "essence" of Clan tech being better is meant to be balanced by the "essence" of IS having numerical superiority.

Since even 10v12 would not come close to balancing the BV of the teams, PGI is going to need to reach deep and use other methods.

[Karl Streiger]

Adamski, on 19 March 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

The "essence" of Clan tech being better is meant to be balanced by the "essence" of IS having numerical superiority.

Since even 10v12 would not come close to balancing the BV of the teams, PGI is going to need to reach deep and use other methods.

They can't fix what others broke.

[Widowmaker1981]

Adamski, on 19 March 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

The "essence" of Clan tech being better is meant to be balanced by the "essence" of IS having numerical superiority.

Since even 10v12 would not come close to balancing the BV of the teams, PGI is going to need to reach deep and use other methods.

To people that say use 10v12 or some such number disparity to allow superior clan tech, i say "GET A CLUE" - regardless of what you would do, or your mate you spoke to said, simple human psychology says that the MAJORITY of people will go to the superior tech supposedly MINORITY faction, because most people want to be the Hero, not the Zergling. If the side with less numbers needs more players to form a team, whats gonna happen? Bad Things.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 19 March 2015 - 05:13 AM.

[Kmieciu]

I wouldn't say the Direwolf is overpowered compared to the KGC. Both have their pros and cons. I own both and the KGC feels easier to use, mainly because 25% faster twist speed and 80 degrees more torso yaw. And you have the option to mount a bigger engine.

Hellbringer is a fair contender against the Thunderbolt. It's got ECM, but the thunderwub does not give a frack.

The only mechs that need fixing are the Timber and Stormcrow. Timber has got simply too much heat capacity and cooling (compared to any other mech clan or IS) along with a broken jump animation, while the Stormcrow is more durable than the Centurion back in closed beta. It needs a hitbox redesign.

[Rhaythe]

TheKillerWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

IS have lights goin for them at least

As an IS light pilot, I can confidently say you are correct. And that nobody in the IS uses lights. >_<

Kmieciu, on 19 March 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

The only mechs that need fixing are the Timber and Stormcrow. Timber has got simply too much heat capacity and cooling (compared to any other mech clan or IS) along with a broken jump animation

And that speed. Curiously, I don't get why clan mechs have speed boost unlocks. Their chassis should already be what it is from the get-go.

[Kmieciu]

Rhaythe, on 19 March 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

And that speed. Curiously, I don't get why clan mechs have speed boost unlocks. Their chassis should already be what it is from the get-go.

Stormcrow rush is the bane of CW. You simply cannot leg all of them fast enough.Their legs are so skinny and their running animation spreads damage without them even trying. You might fight one or two waves, but the third one will take down Omega.
IS simply does not have a tier I medium mech that could compete with a 109kph 5xSRM6 Stormcrow. Neither do the clans - all other mediums are a joke.

Edited by Kmieciu, 19 March 2015 - 06:16 AM.

[Mcgral18]

DivineEvil, on 19 March 2015 - 12:03 AM, said:

Increasing Clan Mech customization is not an option in my opinion. I don't see a reason for this. PGI has a clear determination to balance the IS and Clans using quirks, and for me it's a valid method. Increasing Clan AC velocity across the board, adding carefully chosen quirks to underperforming Clan mechs and omni-pods while also adding some positive and negative quirks to high-tier ones might just do the job. The question is just if PGI really has developed a philosophy around what quirks to give or not.

Then you just lead to more Grab Deals and powercreep, since PGI will simply release a robot that's optimised after a trash tier pack.

Grab an 85 tonner with Endo instead of Ferro, and right there it gains one ton. Drop the heatsinks down to 13, which all fit in the engine, and suddenly you have an 85 tonner with 40.5 tons of guns, that moves 71 Kph. Just as the Night Gyr will move at the same speed with 37.5 tons of guns, 12 DHS and 4 JJs, at 75 tons.


When the Arctic Cheetah is released, all other Clan lights will be rendered, for the most part, useless. It's an almost optimised light mech, with too many JJs and an engine at least 10 ratings too small. It has both Endo and Ferro, while also having the most hardpoints of any Clan light, while making every one of those useful.
It's also the only Clan light with a torso mounted Jesus Box.



If customization was allowed, the Myth LYnx could become a half decent light mech. If it was allowed to follow TT construction rules, it could actually be a superior Death's Knell, with JJs and Clam lasers. 178 speed with 5 JJs, and 10 TrueDubs. The 4 tons of pod space would be adequate for hit and runs.

Badder could upgrade to a 280 (a denomination of 35), gain 10 TrueDubs, move 142 while still having 12.5 tons of guns.

Remove that awful Flamer and get 13 tons, and 5 E hardpoints. Suddenly, it can carry heavier but comparable loadouts to the Cheetah, just without the JJs and fewer hardpoints.

Gargles could go down a few ratings and have loadouts to exceed the TimberGod (without the hitboxes or hardpoint locations, also slower)


Mechlab restrictions are what make Bad Robots. With fewer restrictions, the Bad robots could be made viable, and if needed then proper faction balance could be considered.


As it stands, any additional blanket nerfs just ducks over the bad robots even more.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 19 March 2015 - 04:58 AM, said:

OK, while i absolutely HATE this idea, since it completely removes all of the 'essense' of clan tech being better, the ONLY way to silence the stupid whiners that cant see how locked mechlab is a balancing factor is as follows:

Clan tech being better is just bad for the game in general, it is partially to blame for why the meta is dominated the way it is.

Granted, at the time of release, the IS still had the advantage of better poptarts but even that wouldn't last forever, all it takes is an optimized Omni to throw balance completely out of whack. This is part of the problem with trying to balance a tech base that has the better toys, but is heavily restricted in a way that mechs that are optimized as far as MWO goes become the top mechs.

[terrycloth]

For 10v12, if there's a huge population disparity, you just put the extra clanners in 10v10 clan v clan matches. This is not a real problem.

I also don't see most players flocking to the side that's always outnumbered.

[Steve Pryde]

I would prefer much less (yes, less) range for all clan weapons and then remove this quirk **** from all mechs.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Widowmaker1981, on 19 March 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

To people that say use 10v12 or some such number disparity to allow superior clan tech, i say "GET A CLUE" - regardless of what you would do, or your mate you spoke to said, simple human psychology says that the MAJORITY of people will go to the superior tech supposedly MINORITY faction, because most people want to be the Hero, not the Zergling. If the side with less numbers needs more players to form a team, whats gonna happen? Bad Things.

That`s simply not true.
Since clan introduction, clans meks are simply OP, yet game still running, IS faction still have players.
And that`s without a single drawback, pure OP. Even massive ridicule overquirks did not fix that.
So If now players don`t migrate in masses, I don`t see them migrating when clans will be hit by numbers.

[Widowmaker1981]

WM Quicksilver, on 19 March 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

Clan tech being better is just bad for the game in general, it is partially to blame for why the meta is dominated the way it is.

Granted, at the time of release, the IS still had the advantage of better poptarts but even that wouldn't last forever, all it takes is an optimized Omni to throw balance completely out of whack. This is part of the problem with trying to balance a tech base that has the better toys, but is heavily restricted in a way that mechs that are optimized as far as MWO goes become the top mechs.

And quirks are the fix to that, they still need a great deal of work, but the essence as i see it is the IS mechs are more 'quirky' and have individual variants that do certain things extremely well, and clans have slightly better 'base' tech, but it just doesnt get boosted by the same amount, balancing it overall. I could also see giving IS a much greater level of armour and structure quirks, making them feel more tanky

[BARBAR0SSA]

Yokaiko, on 18 March 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

Lower the engine I can dual gauss and add a stack of lasers.

Correct, but isn't the TW OP because of its speed and maneuverability (people won't make up their minds) if they make massive engine restrictions you might have a 60KPH TW, with a bit less FP than the DWF and less armor. Gauss would only be on right side as well, take out RT and there goes the TW..sort of lrm boat warhawkish.

It could be planned around via limited engine size, fixed hardpoints moved specifically to stop builds deemed op

I attempted the dual gauss with shield arm in CW, ammo really gimps you for the tonnage wasted in drop deck, dual erPPC + Gauss was better, however much hotter. but that does 35 PPFLD and hot hot hot

Grid iron can fire off 2 gauss rounds within same time frame carry lasers or PPC...little mean machine, so it's not completely like there's not other mechs (be it XL weakness but faster speed & maneuverability which is an advantage)

Edited by shad0w4life, 19 March 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Extremist Pain]

i notice such ease running inner shere compared to clans. as a clan central player, i am being more and more disheartened. as i buy each new mech package, I regret my desire to support this game more and more. With this new engine nerf, i am concidering requesting a refund for my preorder of the wave 3. from a market standpoint it is rediculous to see you beating the hell out of the product you are trying to sell with a nerf bat. On top of that, all the clan mechs are or will be available for c-bills, so trying to nerf them on the argument of availability is ludacris. if its that big of a problem in cw, permit both sides to include a mech of the opposing side in a drop deck. a captured mech persay. but to punish one side of the player base, you risk alienating them. and i for one am feeling alienated.