173 replies to this topic

[delushin]

Fix CTDT

[ThatGuy539]

I do hope they come out before the 7th. I get a nice 5 day weekend starting on Thursday Apr 2nd. Would be nice to use the time to level up my shiny new Urbies.

Found a contender for the Urbie theme song....might be some guitar rifs in here that would make a nice Urbie specific war-horn too.

[HammerMaster]

Koniving, on 20 March 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

Proto-mech-sized?


This thing?

Compares to these?


When a lightly armored scout Shadowhawk at 55 tons...

A heavily armored Wolverine at 55 tons...

A Dragon at 60 tons...

And these guys...

?

If anything the spider's about right, if a little tall.

Compare this to the Shadowhawk's headroom.

Admittedly the spider cockpit we see (from inside) is HUGE!

Admittedly. "Almost" proto-mech sized. That one has always rubbed me the wrong way. I just don't see it being 1/3 of an Atlas. Excellent reference material by the way. ALSO! I always liked the Smith and Tinker "skinny" Atlas as averse the our "blocky" Atlas.

[Koniving]

HammerMaster, on 24 March 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

Admittedly. "Almost" proto-mech sized. That one has always rubbed me the wrong way. I just don't see it being 1/3 of an Atlas. Excellent reference material by the way. ALSO! I always liked the Smith and Tinker "skinny" Atlas as averse the our "blocky" Atlas.

Per my request, Haruko saw the artwork I sent her way giving multiple references to the Shadowhawk's scale (in total about 27 consistent ones)... and she informed me the original unseen art is based on a machine called the Dougram, whose scale is 9.63 meters. She tried to eyeball the scale, and also did 9.63 meters, and both wound up being about the same size.

On the far left is a Crysis tank. Center, the BT proper scale of the Shadowhawk (2 series, the 5 series is taller; much like Atlases AS7-letter and AS8-letter are also physically different, and the Hunchback 4-series and 5 series. I tend to refer to them as generations). On the right is MWO's scale.

To note, MWO's Commando is 9.7 meters. Such fun!

(Betcha the Shadowhawk's poor armor levels of usually around 4 tons makes a lot more sense now, eh? Far as the 5M, endo + XL + DHS... and the 5th generation Shadowhawk had grown nearly a meter and a half in size with these 'space consuming' mods causing it to physically grow. After all, it's "Big Boned" and still needs more storage space between its skeleton and its armor.)

(Oh, and the tank is 55 tons too.)

Also, have you got an image of the 'skinny' Atlas? I've seen many versions but nothing from Smith and Tinker (unless you mean the MW5 trailer which I think is PGI still or the Tactical Command Atlas?)

Edited by Koniving, 24 March 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Yes the MW5 Skinny Atlas. So correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying. PGI scale issues stems from meds/heavies/assaults being TOO large of a scale and that our (PGI) current lights are not too small but properly sized in the mix. The orginal FASA (my preference also) being overall smaller mechs in the grand scheme of things?

Edited by HammerMaster, 24 March 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Koniving]

HammerMaster, on 24 March 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

Yes the MW5 Skinny Atlas. So correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying. PGI scale issues stems from meds/heavies/assaults being TOO large of a scale and that our (PGI) current lights are not too small but properly sized in the mix. The orginal FASA (my preference also) being overall smaller mechs in the grand scheme of things?

More a mixture. Some of our lights (the Locust) are actually too small. Some of our mechs are too big (virtually all heavies and some assaults; the Gargoyle is supposed to be 0.5 meters shorter than the MWO Centurion [while the BT Centurion is MUCH shorter than that even if it is a very tall mech in BT. It is also supposed to be MUCH skinnier though I like the bulky look. This is the Alex art scale on the Centurion versus the MWO art scale and even that is bulkier but very acceptable), and the Executioner at 14.4 meters [MWO Centurion is 14.7 meters] is supposed to be the tallest mech until about 3065).

In general, there is fairly large variety in scale in the BT universe, with very small mechs and very large ones -- usually with some reasoning behind them. (Almost universally, every mech with Endo steel is bigger than mechs without, every mech with ferro is thicker than mechs of the same weight class without, and any mech with both can be significantly larger than another variant of the same mech that doesn't have these attributes. In a specific case of the Charger, a canonical modification / hero variant brought forth that by simply adding armor, the mech to grew in size and it had to be added evenly to try and hide the fact that it was modified.)

Far as the Locust and the Flea, the difference in their scales stems more from their purpose and speed.
Fleas put more weight into their armor, and while large enough to encase the pilot in the torso alongside the engine, cooling systems, etc. Even so, their legs are short and thick.
Meanwhile the Locust has long, thin legs and is more than twice as tall. Its weight goes instead into the engine, there is in every case lower armor levels, and it is reasoned that its long legs are necessary to achieve high speeds (such speeds are otherwise 'not possible' with shorter legs). Even so, its overall surface area considering how thin it is, comes out to (short of the turret) roughly the same size, if a little less than the Flea. Long thin limbs are difficult to hit, its arms are almost non-existent, its vertical torso measurement is still smaller than the Flea, and the up-high position is depicted as advantageous in both recon-spotting as well as towering over infantry in such a way that makes climbing it difficult (a problem that often has mechwarriors armed with a knife and small handgun with a watchful eye on their hatches, as well as the true reason for the Adder's Flamer).

Pilots:

This is the old style Neuro Helm -- which enabled the mechs of yesteryear to be as flexible and as capable as machines in 08th Mobile Suit Squadron, (and yes, BT even has mech tasers to do exactly what you see there) and Patlabor (not so serious) (serious).
Can you see the heavy Patlabor influence here? It's even in the uniforms (not to mention an identical hanger -- short of exactly where the windows are and lack of catwalk in the visual [as the Labors are transported by truck to leave the building while here they walk out].


Anyway, the lights go from roughly 8 meters long OR tall to less than 12 meters, mediums about the same, heavies from roughly 8 meters (with much more girth) to 13, and assaults can vary from the short but stocky no-torso-twist King Crab to the 14.4 meter Executioner. (Behemoth is big, but it's clearly more girth than height).

So there's a huge range in heights in BT. MWO's heights have most mechs considerably taller and larger, however, lights are about the closest with the MWO Locust being around 9.4 meters (don't know the exact height, but I know the MWO Commando is 9.7 meters and the Locust is ever so slightly shorter). (BT Commando ranges from 8 to 8.5 meters, as does the Hunchback; the HBK is also a boatload girthier and carries most of its weight in the hunch).

The Urbie is a big, clunky tin can and it is meant to be tall enough for the pilot to stand inside and still have room for its equipment. You don't sit in an Urbanmech -- after all if you sat down what would be the point of having viewports to see outside on All Angles? (UrbanMechs were never depicted as having 360 twist as they never needed it, but you could look directly behind yourself and flip the guns to shoot to the rear). It's fairly near what I would consider to be about the right height for its 1980s depictions. Hatch is on top, btw.

Edit, this Locust image has a good story behind it. However the absolutely blatant disregard for scale (people in background larger than the cars in foreground) cause me to discount it. I really need to find the image of Locusts next to trees hunting infantry; it's by far the best one for a sense of scale with the amount of work that went into it for proportions).

Edit 2:

Don't know if I put this later in the thread, but... I got Haruko to scale the Shadowhawk to what the original arts were at 9.63 meters. On the left is a 55 ton Crysis Tank. Center, the BT scale of the Shadowhawk 2nd generation (2D, 2D2, 2H, etc.), and to the right is MWO's scale.

Edited by Koniving, 27 March 2015 - 02:28 PM.

[Drakhan]

Screw highlander burials......

PREPARE FOR AN "URBIE CURBIE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ShinobiHunter]

Pariah Devalis, on 19 March 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Well... Now we need a cute off. Cutefox or Adder vs Urbanmech.

3, 2, 1, go!

Edit:

Just realized they even gave it little black shoes. Well... Damn. No contest now.

https://static.mwome...46f094e9407.jpg

It was over before you started counting

[Dorci]

Can't wait to have one.

[Dawnstealer]

MOOOOOAAAAAR

[Ridir Semii]

Bill Lumbar, on 19 March 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

So I guess size really doesn't matter?

nope, its all in the way you use it!! LMAO

[ShadowDarter]

ThatGuy539, on 24 March 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

I do hope they come out before the 7th. I get a nice 5 day weekend starting on Thursday Apr 2nd. Would be nice to use the time to level up my shiny new Urbies.

Found a contender for the Urbie theme song....might be some guitar rifs in here that would make a nice Urbie specific war-horn too.

in two words "Hell YES!!!"