49 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Scout Derek, on 20 March 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

Actually, let me rephrase what I said. Maybe allow a word or name to be used only 5 times overall in the game, then increase that threshold as more players join. What say you?

what will this change? I just take a simple dictionary and have thousends of words available, how will this prevent anything?

Flash Frame, on 20 March 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

So basically it all boils down to "Trolls gonna troll."

God...just wait till this game hits steam guys... it's gonna get bad.

that is going to be a problem, yet if steam would be the ONLY way to login (which I doubt) blocking the entire steam account could work. at leats one has then to swithc IP, mail and make an steam and MWO account. A bit more annoying at all. But only a bit.

True solution is FROM THE BEGINNING of steamrelease have some active GM's banning these people so that trolls never gonna find the game attractive. Once a game has reached the state "trollfriendly" you will never ever get rid of them anymore.
Do you really think that after 2 decades of onlinegaming no trolls would still exist if there would be any feasable solution

[Kristov Kerensky]

There are simple and rather effective methods of banning via hardware id's that can be used, but they do require more interaction with the end user's system than MWO currently uses. This is how services like PunkBuster work, it's rather invasive though, and most of the F2P community would have a fit about that sort of invasive software being used, just see the PB forums for examples of this. It IS extremely effective however, I've seen the reports of some of the hackers who were extremely hardcore on how much they had to spend to get around those. When one has to replace multiple pieces of hardware, up to and including motherboards, trolls soon vanish, only the extremely dedicated and well funded keep trying.

So, for MWO, this means, like every other F2P game out there, we get to deal with the twits on those occasions when they show up. REPORT THEM, do not TK them yourself, because they WILL report you and get YOU banned.

[Lily from animove]

Kristov Kerensky, on 20 March 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

There are simple and rather effective methods of banning via hardware id's that can be used, but they do require more interaction with the end user's system than MWO currently uses. This is how services like PunkBuster work, it's rather invasive though, and most of the F2P community would have a fit about that sort of invasive software being used, just see the PB forums for examples of this. It IS extremely effective however, I've seen the reports of some of the hackers who were extremely hardcore on how much they had to spend to get around those. When one has to replace multiple pieces of hardware, up to and including motherboards, trolls soon vanish, only the extremely dedicated and well funded keep trying.

So, for MWO, this means, like every other F2P game out there, we get to deal with the twits on those occasions when they show up. REPORT THEM, do not TK them yourself, because they WILL report you and get YOU banned.

MUAHAHHA PUNKBUSTER; dude you are cute, have you ever palyed APB? Punbuster isn't worth the diskspace its written on.

[Scout Derek]

Lily from animove, on 20 March 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

what will this change? I just take a simple dictionary and have thousands of words available, how will this prevent anything?

It means that if a certain letter is used so many times, they cannot use it, and eventually, they'll grow tired of having to use the dictionary to look up words because its too much work for them to do so. Though what you say is feasible too.

Lily from animove, on 20 March 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

MUAHAHHA PUNKBUSTER; dude you are cute, have you ever palyed APB? Punbuster isn't worth the diskspace its written on.

I wonder that too, for me I wonder: Why use that reference?

And Lily, you have any other solutions to this aside from what you said before?

[ollo]

Dillirium, on 20 March 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

IP Bans are really easy to get around.. Reset your modem (if it's DHCP) and bam you have a new IP.

Mac address ban is better but can be spoofed.

Please don't ever suggest MAC bans again. Even IP bans would be better...

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lily from animove, on 20 March 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

MUAHAHHA PUNKBUSTER; dude you are cute, have you ever palyed APB? Punbuster isn't worth the diskspace its written on.

Pretty sure there's no active support for APB anymore, since they haven't have a PB update for it since last year, and that contract was with the previous owners of APB, not with the current owners, who really aren't known for running great games, unless it's for running them into the ground.

PunkBuster works just fine for known hacks, and that means they are always behind the hackers, nature of the business. Their hardware based bans do work quite effectively however, because they don't use MAC, they use system hardware IDs and multiples at a time, which means replacing multiple pieces of hardware, including the motherboard, to get around them. Again, very invasive software required for this, EvenBalance charges for their services, they aren't free, and we won't see that in MWO.

Accept that it happens in F2P games, nature of the beast, report them, do NOT retaliate, because THEY will report you when you do. We had them really bad for a while during closed beta, the Goonies, remember? I would not be surprised that the current crop of trolls, I've seen them myself, are some returning Goonies, this IS what they do in other games after all, and they do love F2P games for this reason.

[PurpleNinja]

I still think TK isn't a big issue here.
I've seen then, but not that often.

[Scyther]

In-game code to reduce the griefing trolls can do is the only approach, then you eliminate the whole bans/fake accounts process.

What you want to do is make the process specifically unrewarding to trolls while not affecting normal gameplay too much.

A flag needs to go off when an account exceeds a team-damage threshold. At that point you have various options depending on whether you want the process automated or to require team/player input.

Best option would be to simply reduce team damage for that mech/account to virtually nothing (10%) but keep tracking the unmodified damage total. If it exceeds the next threshold, no rewards are granted, and there is a 1-hr suspension of the account.

After the suspension, the account needs to play 5 matches with a reduced team-damage threshold to clear the flag.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

the easy fix to TK's, is to turn off friendly fire.

or turn Friendly Fire into reflected damage that only hurts your mech, instead of the one getting hit.

[Lily from animove]

Kristov Kerensky, on 20 March 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

Pretty sure there's no active support for APB anymore, since they haven't have a PB update for it since last year, and that contract was with the previous owners of APB, not with the current owners, who really aren't known for running great games, unless it's for running them into the ground.

PunkBuster works just fine for known hacks, and that means they are always behind the hackers, nature of the business. Their hardware based bans do work quite effectively however, because they don't use MAC, they use system hardware IDs and multiples at a time, which means replacing multiple pieces of hardware, including the motherboard, to get around them. Again, very invasive software required for this, EvenBalance charges for their services, they aren't free, and we won't see that in MWO.

Accept that it happens in F2P games, nature of the beast, report them, do NOT retaliate, because THEY will report you when you do. We had them really bad for a while during closed beta, the Goonies, remember? I would not be surprised that the current crop of trolls, I've seen them myself, are some returning Goonies, this IS what they do in other games after all, and they do love F2P games for this reason.

yeah PB is pointless, APB had it for years and all it did was cleanign superobvious rage hackers with public hacks, anything else was free to roam and cheat as wanted. Its Pointless. APB is using fairfight now, which works way better vs the worst, but would not help vs trolls.

PB is great if you may be one doing hacks, because those people get richt with PB protected geames selling their customers skill.

there was once a unexpected update on PB, that banned over 2000 hackers in APB at once, but this didn't helped a lot, because they were there for month and rerolled in a few days and stayed for mongth again.

you are really extremely out of date about this topic. I wonder why PB even still exists.

Scout Derek, on 20 March 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

It means that if a certain letter is used so many times, they cannot use it, and eventually, they'll grow tired of having to use the dictionary to look up words because its too much work for them to do so. Though what you say is feasible too.



I wonder that too, for me I wonder: Why use that reference?

And Lily, you have any other solutions to this aside from what you said before?

believe me they do NOT get tired, I have seen them and they do this with passion (and probably because they lack a proper RL to have something better to do with their time).

Flash Frame, on 20 March 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

the easy fix to TK's, is to turn off friendly fire.

or turn Friendly Fire into reflected damage that only hurts your mech, instead of the one getting hit.

So the troll now jumps in your shots whenever possible, especially with long beamduration lasers?
Trolls are horrible creative when it comes to such things. And they culd do so many great things in their life if they used that for something useful.

so yes turning FF of for maybe the first 10 hours he spends ingame may work, since then he has quite to make some playing effort before being able to troll.
But maybe he will just afk around those 10 hours afk trolling 10 hours then tk trolling. But then he can at least not instant tk troll again. No beginner FF may also help reduce frustration for teams having newbeis with them until they get used to the game.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 March 2015 - 09:35 AM.

[EvilCow]

Simple solution, an account: 5$ with a mech and 2000 MC (a good deal by MWO standards).

It would be an "almost free to play" (patent pending).

[Lily from animove]

EvilCow, on 20 March 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Simple solution, an account: 5$ with a mech and 2000 MC (a good deal by MWO standards).

It would be an "almost free to play" (patent pending).

yeah against the f2p spirit, but at least he paid to troll and supported the game for a short time in his existence.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lily, EvenBalance evidently works well enough that EA keeps reupping their contracts on existing games and just added Battlefield Hardline to their list. Then again, BF admins and EA have always been big on busting hackers and getting copies of new hacks to EB so they can be blocked, it's how busting game hackers works, you are always behind them playing catch up and you need the latest version of hacks to counter them. I worked for a hosting company that ran BF servers, had a lot of contact with EB, good people doing a very difficult job, and I appreciated the hell out of their work and their help busting hack users. I know exactly how effective their hardware bans are, tested them, expensive to get around them, stops the majority of the problems.

We won't see that here, ever, so report them and go on about your gaming, again, do NOT retaliate, it's what they want, because they WILL report you. Always let PGI deal with the problem players, do NOT take matters into your own hands, please, it just gets you busted.

[Lily from animove]

Kristov Kerensky, on 20 March 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Lily, EvenBalance evidently works well enough that EA keeps reupping their contracts on existing games and just added Battlefield Hardline to their list. Then again, BF admins and EA have always been big on busting hackers and getting copies of new hacks to EB so they can be blocked, it's how busting game hackers works, you are always behind them playing catch up and you need the latest version of hacks to counter them. I worked for a hosting company that ran BF servers, had a lot of contact with EB, good people doing a very difficult job, and I appreciated the hell out of their work and their help busting hack users. I know exactly how effective their hardware bans are, tested them, expensive to get around them, stops the majority of the problems.

We won't see that here, ever, so report them and go on about your gaming, again, do NOT retaliate, it's what they want, because they WILL report you. Always let PGI deal with the problem players, do NOT take matters into your own hands, please, it just gets you busted.

and what? is not a proof that PB is owrthless, its just another proof that EA is doing stupid stuff.

and no you bust maybe public hacks, and low budget hacks, but not premium hacks, that are written for special people with especially big wallets. Having an anticheat is to calm some customers down thinking they are safe.

Just go to google and find the game of your choice and you will see a hack advertising video for it on youtube. if you really think PB does protect anything, then you are very very naive. Anythign that is working on your PC is just datas in the flow, and this can always be reengineered and manipulated. It's just a matter of price. And many people nowdays are willing to cheat. and thats why hackers aren't geeks hidden in the dark with wanna be pro egoistic purposes. Thats why hackers are high professional coders with a big bank account doing some professional buisness.

Have you read the link? 20 seconds and he knwos what got him, a few minutes and he has fixed this. wow, PB such protection, much antihack.
Its a palceboo, nothing else.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 March 2015 - 09:52 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I have seen a single intentional TKer once since Closed Beta. And in Closed Beta I saw it twice. How are people seeing all these TKers and I'm not?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 20 March 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

I have seen a single intentional TKer once since Closed Beta. And in Closed Beta I saw it twice. How are people seeing all these TKers and I'm not?

Because you're not in ELO hell Johan.

[Funkmaster Rick]

Lily from animove, on 20 March 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

sneak something into the gamefiles on his local files that marks him as a troll, then everytime he does weird stuff, "bug" him out, as long as trols are not able to identify what and where this is, they will get bored by the "broken" game and leave it. They would have to redownlaod the entire game.

Hell, that's actually a decent idea. Hiding a Boolean variable deep in the executables would at least force determined trolls to download the game again. Though the question of the bandwidth costs on PGI's end does come into question.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lily from animove, on 20 March 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

and what? is not a proof that PB is owrthless, its just another proof that EA is doing stupid stuff.

and no you bust maybe public hacks, and low budget hacks, but not premium hacks, that are written for special people with especially big wallets. Having an anticheat is to calm some customers down thinking they are safe.

Just go to google and find the game of your choice and you will see a hack advertising video for it on youtube. if you really think PB does protect anything, then you are very very naive. Anythign that is working on your PC is just datas in the flow, and this can always be reengineered and manipulated. It's just a matter of price. And many people nowdays are willing to cheat. and thats why hackers aren't geeks hidden in the dark with wanna be pro egoistic purposes. Thats why hackers are high professional coders with a big bank account doing some professional buisness.

Have you read the link? 20 seconds and he knwos what got him, a few minutes and he has fixed this. wow, PB such protection, much antihack.
Its a palceboo, nothing else.

Tell ya what, go buy some of those professional hacks, see how well they work, and get back to us. There's a number of them for MWO hacks, all promise that the hacks work 100% and are totally safe from detection! You can give the hack to PGI so they can counter it, there ya go!

I really worry about you sometimes Lily, someone so clueless online, that's just a bad bad thing in the reality that you don't even realize you live in.

[Ratpoison]

All of these awful, abusable ideas scare me.

[Lily from animove]

Kristov Kerensky, on 20 March 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

Tell ya what, go buy some of those professional hacks, see how well they work, and get back to us. There's a number of them for MWO hacks, all promise that the hacks work 100% and are totally safe from detection! You can give the hack to PGI so they can counter it, there ya go!

I really worry about you sometimes Lily, someone so clueless online, that's just a bad bad thing in the reality that you don't even realize you live in.

The only one clueless is you, sure everyone advertises this like that even if they aren't but you have special hacks being safe, if youw ant to get them and are willing to pay the relate sums. if you think client side antihack is any real protection, then continue to think so, and lets hope you never host any onlinegame with PB protection.

Whats the sense of knowing how THIS one hack works, when he in few minutes makes a new one? oh lets just say he dioes this every 5 mnutes and sells it for 10$ you wanna pay him everytime? then he gets just rich sololy buy you buying them as antihack measures.

so care to explain how you beloved Punkbuster was not able to detect people that rather blatantely were hackign sicne closed beta in APB? becasuse PB never worked on hacks some script kidies made on their own. and such a hack you can't download and give someone to analyse. All you can hope is that the antihack catches on some signatures. Which it often does not.

someone defending PB does work properly, telling someone else to be clueless, wow that has meme potential.