309 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

All I've done so far is run my non-basic'd stock mechs and I'm impressed. A bit hot, but a very good chassis.

[Wintersdark]

Ultimatum X, on 21 March 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

I highly recommend you do not shave cockpits down so low, I find the cockpit of this mech easy to view due to it's design.

If you are already shaving from a shield arm, just shave more from there first. It's a dead arm, it's only use is to be ablative.

I always shave from ablative locations before critical areas like legs and cockpits.

heh I tend to shave a somewhat fixed amount from legs (for pug matches only), except on certain mechs that tend to get legged more. I'm pretty aggressive with my cockpit shaving, but my experience is that I get headshot very rarely, so it's not too bad. In this laser-filled meta, i have my cockpit glanced frequently, but reflex saves it from any significant damage.

I've got <10 armor on most of my mechs cockpits, and I've been headshot once in the last three months...

That once, though, was just the other night. Funny story: I was in an intact Timberwolf, had just legged a Firestarter and ravaged the rest of his armor, who jumped down into the lava of the TT caldera, and took cover behind the ramp leading back up... That was pretty convenient for me - I'd nail him, and run right back up.

I rounded the corner, stopped and took a half second to gloat because who doesn't like ruining Firestarters, even if it is in a grossly OP mech like a Timberwolf? I was packing a silly loadout because Pugging and Fun and Reasons - an LBX20 and 2 cLPL's, so I was anticipating the hammerblow of the LBX20 tearing him apart, when *FLASHWUBWUBWUB*

Zero damage to me anywhere but my cockpit. Mech from 100% to dead, by a ravaged and neardead Firestarter, standing in lava so already cooking hot. Such an awesome shot, guy absolutely earned that kill.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 21 March 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

heh I tend to shave a somewhat fixed amount from legs (for pug matches only), except on certain mechs that tend to get legged more. I'm pretty aggressive with my cockpit shaving, but my experience is that I get headshot very rarely, so it's not too bad. In this laser-filled meta, i have my cockpit glanced frequently, but reflex saves it from any significant damage.

I've got <10 armor on most of my mechs cockpits, and I've been headshot once in the last three months...

That once, though, was just the other night. Funny story: I was in an intact Timberwolf, had just legged a Firestarter and ravaged the rest of his armor, who jumped down into the lava of the TT caldera, and took cover behind the ramp leading back up... That was pretty convenient for me - I'd nail him, and run right back up.

I rounded the corner, stopped and took a half second to gloat because who doesn't like ruining Firestarters, even if it is in a grossly OP mech like a Timberwolf? I was packing a silly loadout because Pugging and Fun and Reasons - an LBX20 and 2 cLPL's, so I was anticipating the hammerblow of the LBX20 tearing him apart, when *FLASHWUBWUBWUB*

Zero damage to me anywhere but my cockpit. Mech from 100% to dead, by a ravaged and neardead Firestarter, standing in lava so already cooking hot. Such an awesome shot, guy absolutely earned that kill.

definitely feeling this build. Screw the ac5 quirks, slap an ac10 and MPL on it.

[FupDup]

Maybe if the 12.5% missile range quirk was yanked out in favor of a minimum of 25% missile cooldown, that singular right arm missile might be semi-useful.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

definitely feeling this build. Screw the ac5 quirks, slap an ac10 and MPL on it.

Yeah the AC 5 quirk is completely ignorable.

+10% more AC 5 range.


It's not something you are going to make realistic use out of, I can't remember the last time I bothered shooting at someone 700+m away with an AC 5.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 21 March 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

Maybe if the 12.5% missile range quirk was yanked out in favor of a minimum of 25% missile cooldown, that singular right arm missile might be semi-useful.

single SRM racks are still largely jokes (work OK when torso mounted with lasers likewise mounted, but in an arm? Yeech), and LRMs are too..iffy.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

definitely feeling this build. Screw the ac5 quirks, slap an ac10 and MPL on it.

Or ZEU-6S. I know, I know, I hate on LBX's all the time... but they're FUN. MPL's? Bah. 3xLPL is mean, and this rocks a near 50% cooling efficiency with Smurfy which is really good - most of my normal builds are 40%ish.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 21 March 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

Maybe if the 12.5% missile range quirk was yanked out in favor of a minimum of 25% missile cooldown, that singular right arm missile might be semi-useful.

Quirking singular hardpoints is just one of those things that unless the quirk is massive and to something important, it's really just a wasteful use of a quirk.

I'm not even sure if 25% would be enough for a single SRM (yeah, yeah I know LRMs, I don't use them at all really)

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 21 March 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Quirking singular hardpoints is just one of those things that unless the quirk is massive and to something important, it's really just a wasteful use of a quirk.

I'm not even sure if 25% would be enough for a single SRM (yeah, yeah I know LRMs, I don't use them at all really)

Yeah, but we can't quirk mechs based off what You, or I, or individual players use. That's one reason I prefer "stock" oriented.... takes the shifting meta and player bias out of it. The Mech was designed for a Role,. the quirks reflect that role. Don't like it, either go counter quirk, or use a chassis that does fit the role.

As for quirking single hardpoints...I mostly agree. My thing is that primary weapon systems should get the specific quirks, secondary maybe generic ones....and tertiary, none at all. That whole, "Gotta Quirk them All" crap on the Omni Pass just waters it down for everyone.

[Hillslam]

Here's my impression of the Zeus as I grind it:

[DaZur]

Hillslam, on 21 March 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Here's my impression of the Zeus as I grind it:

I don't think it even THAT hydrodynamic...

[Wintersdark]

Ultimatum X, on 21 March 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Quirking singular hardpoints is just one of those things that unless the quirk is massive and to something important, it's really just a wasteful use of a quirk.

I'm not even sure if 25% would be enough for a single SRM (yeah, yeah I know LRMs, I don't use them at all really)

Even with LRM's, you'd need a pretty damn massive quirk to make a single LRM20 problematic.

[Wintersdark]

Actually, I'm a really big fan of crazy-big quirks for single, primary weapon system hardpoints. Like the CN9-D's LBX quirks, for example.

The TDR-9S ERPPC quirks where stupid, because it could mount so many ERPPC's it could reap too much of a bonus from that quirk, but really big quirks on a single weapon make the mech very unique.

The HBK-4G is a good example. It's AC20 quirks are obscene, but that doesn't make the 4G overpowered. What would happen if you put those quirks on a King Crab?

With that said, I dunno if I'd go that far with the M hardpoint on the Zeus, as it's not really a primary hardpoint... but it still could have a fairly substantial quirk without it being overpowered.

[C E Dwyer]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

single SRM racks are still largely jokes (work OK when torso mounted with lasers likewise mounted, but in an arm? Yeech), and LRMs are too..iffy.

yeas, I'm still trying to make LRMs work on it as well its a Zeus and stuff min maxing, but I am close to admitting defeat with the single launchers, even though it looks more like a suppository, without a weapon in it, and yes ouch!

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

Yeah, but we can't quirk mechs based off what You, or I, or individual players use. That's one reason I prefer "stock" oriented.... takes the shifting meta and player bias out of it. The Mech was designed for a Role,. the quirks reflect that role. Don't like it, either go counter quirk, or use a chassis that does fit the role.

As for quirking single hardpoints...I mostly agree. My thing is that primary weapon systems should get the specific quirks, secondary maybe generic ones....and tertiary, none at all. That whole, "Gotta Quirk them All" crap on the Omni Pass just waters it down for everyone.

I think we can quirk it for the role the stock build was designed for while giving it leeway to do more, and be more.

The ZEU-6S comes stock with:

LRM 15
1 LLAS
2 MLAS
1 AC 5

These are the weapon quirks it has:

AC/5 RANGE: 10.00 %
BALLISTIC RANGE: 10.00 %
BALLISTIC COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
MISSILE RANGE: 12.50 %


These are the weapon quirks I would give it

AC/5 Velocity +10%
Ballistic Velocity +10%
Ballistic Cooldown +12.50%
Laser Heat Generation -12.50%

I gave it roughly similar values but changed the range quirks into velocity quirks which will encourage players to use them. (Ideally, I'd double up on +CD bonuses - one generic and one AC 5 specific, but let's start small)

Velocity is a good quirk but +20% is hardly OP on AC5s and +10% for an AC 10 is not going to overperform in my opinion.

It's a mech that can use two ballistics but can't stack 2x UAC 5s, and can't use an AC 20 - so some of the best ballistics are out.

I also gave it Laser heat generation, because it has more energy hardpoints than missile hardpoints.


I feel the stock build is completely respected here, I didn't turn the right arm into SRM cooldown +50% or anything.



All I did was enhance the stock elements to make them focused and beneficial and improve the mech's performance, while giving it enough generic quirk leeway that it can run some different, but potentially effective, combinations.

I ignored the LRM because in my opinion it's not even the focus of the stock build, it's more of a support weapon on supporting the rest of the loadout. I don't feel it needs quirks to function as is.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 21 March 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[Alek Ituin]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

Never been a huge fan of single energy points in the arms of Assaults...they always look so lonely, lol.

This is why we need Blazers. Big purple beams of death, truly fitting for Assault E hardpoints. (Yeah, purple beams, figured they'd be pretty damn unique)

None of the energy weapons feel like they have any oomph in an Assault unless you put at least 2-4 of them on. Blazers would fix that by looking like they actually belong on an Assault chassis by virtue of their size, weight, and firepower.

[FupDup]

Alek Ituin, on 21 March 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

This is why we need Blazers. Big purple beams of death, truly fitting for Assault E hardpoints. (Yeah, purple beams, figured they'd be pretty damn unique)

None of the energy weapons feel like they have any oomph in an Assault unless you put at least 2-4 of them on. Blazers would fix that by looking like they actually belong on an Assault chassis by virtue of their size, weight, and firepower.

There's a timeline-friendly Zeus variant with a Blazer stock...

[Sjorpha]

I've only just started out, but so far so good.

6S - I'm running a std300 build with 3ERLL and 2AC5, endo, ferro. I like having the full shield side and with the long range loadout is fine going a little slower. It's still fast enough to maneuver around the big friendly assaults to kite.

6T - Same here, the quirks give you extreme ERLL range. I'm running a standard 300 with 5ERLL, 1ML and 20 DHS.

Both the the above make nice zombies with the CT ERLL as well. I have no doubt they both have nice XL builds, and there is probably nice gauss/PPC snipers, laser vomits and hybrid support mechs using the missile launcher in there, but I like the ones I have for now.

9S - Different approach, 350XL, 3ASRM6 and 3LL. Very nice fast brawler, the 3ASRM6 arm is a pretty big deal as you can shoot fast mechs while twisting the torso away, shoot mechs above and below you, and lead shots against lights. That arm is the closest thing the game has to a melee weapon so far.

I'm loving the fact that the balanced hitboxes allow both standard and XL builds, I love the compact design and the tanky armour. I love how the low tonnage and nice long range builds make it perfect for CW decks. It's a great mech IMO, I can't wait to get them all elited.

Edited by Sjorpha, 21 March 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 21 March 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

There's a timeline-friendly Zeus variant with a Blazer stock...

Sadly, no binary lasers for us. I think they'd really help some limited hardpoint IS assaults (like those 1E arms)... particularly given it's whole reason to exist is basically to allow big mechs to mount a bigger LL when it can't just mount more LL's.

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

My hitboxes seem fine, very XL friendly, no obvious hitboxes of death.

XL friendly? I haven't found that at all. In fact I estimate that ~75% of my deaths come from side torso XL destruction. (I run an XL350 in all 3 variants.)

The Zeus desperately needs better hardpoints. Best way to fight as Zeus is to shoot its left torso. If it's running an XL (which it probably is), it's dead. If not, it's practically disarmed, with the 6T being the exception if you're afraid of whatever missiles it's carrying.

I'm only done with basics across the board, but even though I like the Zeus I'm finding it pretty meh. No matter what build I try, I feel like there's a better platform for that build. Worse (at least for me), is that all the weapons are on the left side. I tend to be a right-side corner peeker, so using the Zeus's left-side biased loadouts is... challenging.

I'm hoping that Speed Tweak and then finishing Elites will liven up the chassis for me, but right now it's just something to grind until the Urbie gets here.