Roadkill, on 26 March 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:
Good point.
"XL friendly" to me means that reward > risk for running an XL. You're better off running an XL so you should do it. Period.
"XL acceptable" is where I'd put the Zeus... you're okay running one, but watch your side torsos because you're going to lose them more often than not. Basically, reward == risk. There are builds for the Mech that don't use XLs that are comparably effective to builds that do use an XL.
"might as well XL" because the Mech is trash without one, despite the fact that the XL's going to get you killed more often than not. You could argue that that means reward > risk, but in the case that the Mech's pretty useless without an XL I'd argue that's not really a reward. It's making the Mech viable.
"XL banned" don't ever use an XL in these Mechs. Like Bishop said... Atlas, Stalker, Hunchback... I'd argue Centurion, Cataphract as well.
It kind of sounds like Bishop just combines the first three all into one category, which is fine.
not entirely true.
I feel there are mechs:
1 )that you are an idiot not to XL (pre-nerf VTR (have not decided on the current version),SHD, GRF, WVR, etc)
2) mechs that can go either way, (Jagermech, Cataphract, Thunderbolt, Centurion)
3) and mechs that never get XL'd (at least for serious play) (Atlas, Stalker, Hunchback)
Yeah, you could nit pick tiers of XL worthiness into all the above, but I find at that point it starts getting too subjective, and oftentimes playstyle, weapon preference, Solo vs Team, CW vs Causal, all start to influence those shades of grey, and thus, it is hard to be fully objective, IMO.
For some people, the BJ is very XL friendly.... as long as they are peektarting....another might find it less forgiving because they are running the popular ac20/ 3Mlaser build....which to sue most effectively means exposing that ST more.
For me? I almost never die to ST death in a Centurion. And I do about 250 avg dmg more, with an XL one than a Zombie. Thus, while I list the chassis as "go either way" for me personally it's "only an idiot would use one without) because in my hands, and my playstyle, the CN9 is massively more effective, and yes, survivable than one without. Speed and firepower are as much a part of the Survivability formula as Durability, the exact proportions of the formula simply vary by chassis and playstyle.
I find the ZEUS, minus an XL? Too slow and undergunned, thus LESS survivable (even though if you were to park it side by side with an STD engine version and blaze away, the std is more durable). That and I find like the VTR, BNC, SHD, GRF, CN9 and WVR, it's stupid easy to soak damage on the arms before it gets to the STs, and easy to spread the damage even once the arm is gone. For me personally, that is another factor. Any mech that has ape arms and twists well, is going to be "XL friendly" in my book. Any mech that as you put it "can tank" even with an XL? Is XL friendly.
Doesn't matter if you die eventually to ST loss, the only way to guarantee that won't happen is to run STDs or pilot a mech like a CPLT that gets CT cored all the time. But if you can tank and spread damage, have to lose both arms and then still take a while to kill? I don't care if you finally die by ST loss (in fact in most XL Friendly mechs, you will, eventually), it's XL Friendly, IMO.
Deathlike, on 26 March 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:
I think we kinda need to redefine "XL friendly".
For a mech like a Victor, it is "XL friendly" in that you can use your arms to shield your side torsos from direct damage. In the case of the Dragon Slayer, most builds tend to use the energy arm as a shield.
The mech would be fine with a Standard engine just as well...
For a Dragon though, I wouldn't call that exactly "XL friendly", but more like "XL preferred" or "XL effective" or something like that.
Dragons are fragile IMO... whether it is CT or side torso. The thing is that in order to make the mech reasonably usable... whether it is contributed by speed and/or firepower to be effective... you will need an XL engine for the mech.
It's the kind of classification that would be applied to Light mechs in general where not going XL is generally to your own detriment. Some mechs would need it more than others depending on the situation.
Whatever I guess...
Yeah, that works, too.
Roadkill, on 26 March 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:
Seems like it's higher than that. I own just over 100 Mechs but 39 of those are Clan, so 60-65 IS variants. Just based on what I own:
All lights
Enforcer (?)
Shadowhawk (?)
Catapult
Jagermech
Thunderbolt
Victor (?)
Battlemaster (?)
Highlander
Banshee (?)
I own Grasshoppers but haven't leveled them up yet. I assume the Awesome is XL friendly because, well, barn door. I think the (?) Mechs are borderline... I use XLs in them unless I'm going for a more brawly type of build. My style is more support or sometimes brawling, so I'm generally not in the middle of the fight but I'm also not 700 meters away sniping.
I'll be honest, aside from the Jenner, most Lights die to ST death (via legging). It's just it takes a long time to get there, without a lucky shot.