309 replies to this topic

[Blue Boutique]

Does anyone notice if the head hitbox is too large? Just notice that it goes orange internal pretty quick compared to Summoners, Quickdraws, Grasshoppers and other mechs with cockpits on top of torsos.

[DaZur]

Blue Boutique, on 23 March 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

Does anyone notice if the head hitbox is too large? Just notice that it goes orange internal pretty quick compared to Summoners, Quickdraws, Grasshoppers and other mechs with cockpits on top of torsos.

Hmmm.... 48 matches under my belt in the -6S and I can't recall my cockpit taking any damage yet.

Which is kind'a weird considering it's size and location...

[Triban]

See the sunflower, and weep.

SUNFLOWER POWER 6T

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

So basically, this can be summed up as "This is not the chassis you're looking for".

And that's OK, if you ask me.

Yeah, I get that. I hope my emphasis on how I like to build/play mechs made it through my post.

I don't hate the Zeus, I'm just not a fan of being a generalists overall.


That being said I HAVE played generalist builds that I did have fun in, but its rarer.

For example for a while at the start of Clan Wave one, I was solo-queuing with a WHK with like 2x LRM 15s, UAC 10, TAG, CAP, CERMLAS. It let me contribute at every range, and my back up weapons had back up.

I had alot of good matches in it.


I'm just not seeing that much room to manuever in the Zues for me personally, but a part of that is my huge aversion to XLs in assaults.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

how thoroughly .....boring? LOL.

If you have some other ideas I'm open to it.

IMO it's an energy boat, that's what it has going for it.


Adding a single LRM launcher won't make the build more interesting for me - and I find a single SRM not really worth the tonnage at all (or I'd be running one ASRM 6 on my Summoner with 4x CMPLs, so close, but yet so far).


I'd be happy to mix PPCs and Lasers, but with current PPC speeds I'm not going to do that.



The 6T on the other hand will be running 3x SRMs of some kind for sure, that arm would be a shame not to put to use. (looks awesome on the model too)

Apnu, on 23 March 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

Too hot for a proper brawl, what's the point of having a shield arm if it dies when a locust sneezes? If I were to do this idea, I'd go with: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f8c10690ee23153

It's not too hot for me, but I'm used to a TBR-C with 3x ASRM 6s and SIX CERMLAS. Yes, 6.

Now that's a hot build.

Wildstreak, on 23 March 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

What also amazes me is the rough shape of the Zeus.

Broad shoulders, narrow waist, qualities the Awesome should have had.

If PGI ever redesigned the geometry for the Awesome (sadly unlikely) then the Zeus model is where they should look for the overall proportions.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 23 March 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[1453 R]

Ultimatum X, on 21 March 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

...
I find the HUGE XL builds some people seem to be running (380+) to be odd, there is a legion of players complaining about the Gargoyle and then we have people stuffing similar sized engines with a bigger weakness on the Zeus.
...

I know this was a while ago, thread-wise, but I wanted to respond to it in particular because it IS a big reason why the Garfayle is so...fayle.
The difference between a 380XL and a 400XL is six tons. Even just those six tons would make an entire universe of difference to poor Mr. Gargles. Six extra tons is enough tonnage to (semi) effectively run its stock dual autocannons, instead of the stock Prime being an absolute joke. Heck, the difference between a 400XL and a 395XL is two tons, which would also make a difference to Mr. Gargles builds.

Frankly, the XL400 is just overtonned for what it gives. When five points of engine rating cost you two tons, your formulas are borked and need reworking. Yes, I know, it’s something to do with gyro math and ensuring things stay true to their TT roots…but going from a 395XL to a 400XL costs you two tons.

There is no universe in which those five points of engine rating are worth two tons.

I’ve run a 385XL in (some of) my Victors since I got into Victors way back when they released, simply because nobody (back then) was ready for that much armor moving that quickly, with enough firepower to overwhelm anything much smaller than a Cataphract. I had no real trouble finding enough room for gun on those guys, though obviously the same ‘Mechs are somewhat less impressive today what with Timber Wolves dumping all over the Victor’s old game. The general consensus that >350-rated engines are no good today does usually hold, but there was a time when engines in the 375-ish area had their niche.

These days...not so much. Those old strike-brawling Victors I had such a blast with back in the day are sadly very much retired, even with the recent climbing buff. They just can't compete with Timber Wolves.

Anyways. I actually stopped at the Grasshopper with the Resistance package, though honestly the geometry and layouts of the Zeuses are making me somewhat regret that. I may pitch another twenty bucks at it sometime and get the Zeuses to play with, as some of their builds look to accomplish things I used to enjoy doing on my Victors more effectively than my Victors did.

[Apnu]

DaZur, on 23 March 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

I have... but I found myself longing for a bigger punch when I needed it. With the twin AC/5s in chain I found my shots wandering all over the place and not delivering the location specific damage I was looking for....

With the AC/10 + AC/2 combo with the lLas I have means to drop a 30 point shot on a location of choice while keeping the pressure on between cycles.

At the end of the day the two are splitting hairs... It comes down the personal preference and play-style.

I like picking my shots versus spray and pray.

On mine I switch between group and chain fire as needed. But hey, if the AC10/AC2 combo works for you. By all means use it.

[LordMelvin]

Christof Romulus, on 23 March 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

Finally, Steiners get a scout mech. We were at such a disadvantage using heavies for that task.

You guys have had the Atlas since day 1. That's the iconic Steiner Scout Mech.

[SethAbercromby]

LordMelvin, on 23 March 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

You guys have had the Atlas since day 1. That's the iconic Steiner Scout Mech.

I think he was joking. Atlas is best Scout tho

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 23 March 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

Yeah, I get that. I hope my emphasis on how I like to build/play mechs made it through my post.

I don't hate the Zeus, I'm just not a fan of being a generalists overall.


That being said I HAVE played generalist builds that I did have fun in, but its rarer.

For example for a while at the start of Clan Wave one, I was solo-queuing with a WHK with like 2x LRM 15s, UAC 10, TAG, CAP, CERMLAS. It let me contribute at every range, and my back up weapons had back up.

I had alot of good matches in it.


I'm just not seeing that much room to manuever in the Zues for me personally, but a part of that is my huge aversion to XLs in assaults.






If you have some other ideas I'm open to it.

IMO it's an energy boat, that's what it has going for it.


Adding a single LRM launcher won't make the build more interesting for me - and I find a single SRM not really worth the tonnage at all (or I'd be running one ASRM 6 on my Summoner with 4x CMPLs, so close, but yet so far).


I'd be happy to mix PPCs and Lasers, but with current PPC speeds I'm not going to do that.



The 6T on the other hand will be running 3x SRMs of some kind for sure, that arm would be a shame not to put to use. (looks awesome on the model too)




It's not too hot for me, but I'm used to a TBR-C with 3x ASRM 6s and SIX CERMLAS. Yes, 6.

Now that's a hot build.








If PGI ever redesigned the geometry for the Awesome (sadly unlikely) then the Zeus model is where they should look for the overall proportions.

Oh, I try not to project my builds and playstyles onto other players, too much. I just find it rather boring when everything is a sword and board boat. Almost might as well ask PGI to stop making anything canon based and just make right side/left side biased meta chassis, and you just choose which one based on weapon type preferred, ya know?

I know I'm putting a little hyperbole into this, but that is how most competitive/meta related posts sound about builds, play, etc. It is undoubtedly effective. I guess I just find it utterly sterile, too. And I don't play sci-fi videogames or watch films, etc for sterile.

I guess I save being uber comp/efficient for things that actually matter.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

I guess I save being uber comp/efficient for things that actually matter.

So how'd that hot dog eating / swim-suit competition go for ya?

[Bishop Steiner]

I have not even fully edited it yet, and I can say now, already, that I really love the ZEU-6S. It is without a doubt, my Go-To Assault chassis. Super sturdy, decent firepower, decent speed and mobility.

Would like slightly better offensive quirks, but it is solid even ignoring the ones it has. If anything, my only real wish would be a single hardpoint more on the RA of the 6S/9S (missiles) and one on the LA of the 6T (Energy).

That said, does it need it? No, probably not, if I am doing this well and consistent, already. Part of it's a symmetry thing.

[LordKnightFandragon]

I like the Zeus. I am now running it 2 AC5, 3 MPL, ton of ammo. Havent yet had a good game in it, but feel like im able to contribute just fine with it. The dakka is fun. Can get atleast 1 kill a game with it, supporting my team.

Thought about putting an AC10 or a Goosewaffle on it just for kicks.

Durability? Max armor+ quirk armor, it seems pretty survivable, just as good as any clan mech, maybe more so cuz its skinny and not a house on legs like mah Warhawk.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

So far I have about 20 games in the ZUE-6S
1. I hate, beyond measure, the custom geometry and paint.
2. I dislike the monitors mounted on my primary (left) cockpit window.
3. I struggle to maintain targeting resolution with an arm-mounted ballistic (velocity and drop) with torso mounted lasers (no drop, no lead).
4. I like the mobility
5. I love the durability

I've tried using the launcher, but it is a serious tonnage stink for IS, plus PGI has screwed the casual LRM launcher, you really have to throw a bunch of extra tonnage toward it to get any utilization. So I have been focusing on the E and B hard-points. The gauss + 3xERLL has been my best performer as the gauss needs little lead and no drop. But I constantly feel like "torso-lock" and macros would exponentially boost performance, however those are two things I feel cheapen the game.
I've tried 2xAC5 +3ERLL but the firing characteristics were to different.
I have a few more builds to test, but in the mean time I am happy to run low-Elo, high-difficulty (if only the MM and population would comply)

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 23 March 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[Malleus011]

Would pay MC to remove the Resistance skin and 'special' geometry from my Resistance 'mechs.

[Roadkill]

Question: how does the quirk armor work? My Victor and Zeuses all say "max 68" in the Mech lab for the side torsos.

I assume it is automatically allocated as additional front armor, which means that if I would prefer to use some of it as rear armor that I would need to over-allocate to the rear in the Mechlab. Correct?

[Nathan Foxbane]

I like the Zeus and I see two main complaints in this thread that are completely preventable by the players themselves.

The first offender is a big one: that it cannot tank. This assertion is patently false, the Zeus tanks like a boss. Any lack of survivability falls on the player in this case. It is not really a sword and board 'Mech and should not be used to wade into the thick of battle like one. The Zeus is so durable the whole 'Mech should be used as a shield. Its broad flat chest means it is really easy to spread out damage coming in at oblique angles. Do not just twist to protect one side exclusively. Use both sides to spread out the damage. The arms are its greatest weak points because of the defensive quirks, do not be afraid to twist some of that damage onto the torso even when running an XL. However, as explained below wading into the middle of the death ball is not the Zeus' forte. You just do not have the firepower to slug it out with many heavier assaults, but you do have the armor to do so if they are weakened. Make the mobility (and LRMs if you carry them) work for you.

The second is: It is too general a 'Mech. This is a play style thing. Not every 'Mech is for every player and the Zeus is a 'Mech which shines best when played in a very flexible role. It does not shine in the frontal assault role where the Assault class all too often gets pigeonholed into. Such a role is the domain of 'Mechs like the King Crab and Atlas. The Zeus is a mid-range fire support 'Mech with the ability to mix it up. It performs best (in my experience) when between the front line and support 'Mechs able to shore up the line or fall back to soften up other 'Mechs at range as needed. This requires a player willing to adapt to the 'Mech, not one who adapts the 'Mech to their preferred play style. By no means is the Zeus fit for the current meta which is a good thing.

Roadkill, on 23 March 2015 - 08:20 PM, said:

Question: how does the quirk armor work? My Victor and Zeuses all say "max 68" in the Mech lab for the side torsos.

I assume it is automatically allocated as additional front armor, which means that if I would prefer to use some of it as rear armor that I would need to over-allocate to the rear in the Mechlab. Correct?

Yes. I run 70/30 Front/Rear CT on my 6S and it just drinks up the damage. Being able to take dual Gauss to the rear is nice.

[ccrider]

The Zeus is amazing. I have nothing but live for this mech. The only thing that needs to change is a punching animation on the 6t with an "activate rocket fist" sound. That would be the greatest thing evah. I'd run nothing but 6ts from now on.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I have finally looked at the Quirks (yes it was the last thing I looked at).
They are atrocious, almost all range quirks to long range weaponry. I am glad that the Zeus is a decent (tier 3) around mech because role specific benefits it receives are useless.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 23 March 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 23 March 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

I have finally looked at the Quirks (yes it was the last thing I looked at).
They are atrocious, almost all range quirks to long range weaponry. I am glad that the Zeus is a decent (tier 3) around mech because role specific benefits it receives are useless.

all that means is you can ignore them and run what you like. The important quirks on it are all defensive, and what make it work. Also means that they feel (and are mostly right) that it is pretty solid already. I would rank it a low tier 2, as currently presented, when built right. More specific quirks, a second missile hard point in the RA, etc would probably be enough to make it a solid upper tier 2. Lack of JJs, ECM and High Weapon Mounts will likely keep it from every being a Tier 1, unless it gets uber specialized quirks like the TRD-9S.

Malleus011, on 23 March 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

Would pay MC to remove the Resistance skin and 'special' geometry from my Resistance 'mechs.

I like the resistance skin and Geo, call me nuts. Especially the Subtle Zeuz X treatment.

Nathan Foxbane, on 23 March 2015 - 08:34 PM, said:

I like the Zeus and I see two main complaints in this thread that are completely preventable by the players themselves.

The first offender is a big one: that it cannot tank. This assertion is patently false, the Zeus tanks like a boss. Any lack of survivability falls on the player in this case. It is not really a sword and board 'Mech and should not be used to wade into the thick of battle like one. The Zeus is so durable the whole 'Mech should be used as a shield. Its broad flat chest means it is really easy to spread out damage coming in at oblique angles. Do not just twist to protect one side exclusively. Use both sides to spread out the damage. The arms are its greatest weak points because of the defensive quirks, do not be afraid to twist some of that damage onto the torso even when running an XL. However, as explained below wading into the middle of the death ball is not the Zeus' forte. You just do not have the firepower to slug it out with many heavier assaults, but you do have the armor to do so if they are weakened. Make the mobility (and LRMs if you carry them) work for you.

The second is: It is too general a 'Mech. This is a play style thing. Not every 'Mech is for every player and the Zeus is a 'Mech which shines best when played in a very flexible role. It does not shine in the frontal assault role where the Assault class all too often gets pigeonholed into. Such a role is the domain of 'Mechs like the King Crab and Atlas. The Zeus is a mid-range fire support 'Mech with the ability to mix it up. It performs best (in my experience) when between the front line and support 'Mechs able to shore up the line or fall back to soften up other 'Mechs at range as needed. This requires a player willing to adapt to the 'Mech, not one who adapts the 'Mech to their preferred play style. By no means is the Zeus fit for the current meta which is a good thing.


Yes. I run 70/30 Front/Rear CT on my 6S and it just drinks up the damage. Being able to take dual Gauss to the rear is nice.

You sir, win the internet and my admiration, as this is EXACTLY my experience and conclusions.

[Ultimax]

1453 R, on 23 March 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

I know this was a while ago, thread-wise, but I wanted to respond to it in particular because it IS a big reason why the Garfayle is so...fayle.

I don't think it will be considered nearly as fail once the Gift Store Variant (The GAR-C).

1453 R, on 23 March 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

The difference between a 380XL and a 400XL is six tons. Even just those six tons would make an entire universe of difference to poor Mr. Gargles. Six extra tons is enough tonnage to (semi) effectively run its stock dual autocannons, instead of the stock Prime being an absolute joke. Heck, the difference between a 400XL and a 395XL is two tons, which would also make a difference to Mr. Gargles builds.

The problem is not actually the 400XL. (Well partially, I'd still probably run something large in it, 350 at the very smallest, or a 375)

The problem is that the stock loadout, which has 2x LB5s and 2x SRM 6s has an inexplicable 6 extra DHS.

If you never fired the small laser, even without basics, you could fire your LBs and SRMs non-stop for two minutes and fourty seconds.


That's ridiculous.

There is no reason that build needs that many heatsinks - tonnage which could have gone directly into ammo (what it does need).



The other item is that "Clan tons" do not equal "IS tons". This is a misnomer that has existed since the first reveal of clan wave 1 and people thought the Timber Wolf would "only" have 26 to 28 tons of podspace.


I can go more into this if you like in PMs, but not here.

Even though it does relate to the Zeus and it's available firepower, I don't want to derail things in this thread.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

Oh, I try not to project my builds and playstyles onto other players, too much. I just find it rather boring when everything is a sword and board boat. Almost might as well ask PGI to stop making anything canon based and just make right side/left side biased meta chassis, and you just choose which one based on weapon type preferred, ya know?

I know I'm putting a little hyperbole into this, but that is how most competitive/meta related posts sound about builds, play, etc. It is undoubtedly effective. I guess I just find it utterly sterile, too. And I don't play sci-fi videogames or watch films, etc for sterile.

I guess I save being uber comp/efficient for things that actually matter.

For me its more the joy of optimizing a thing, but I will often play what I feel the mech will let me play.

I much prefer to combine cool ballistics with hot energy to make full use of the mech, but many builds simply don't lend themselves as well to it.


I find the opposite is true about stock loadout "bracket builds" or similar.

It seems like so many mechs are all designed to function at multiple ranges to the point that they all seem bland and blend together.

That's my uninformed view, I'm clearly not someone who knows much about TT - mostly just from the builds I strip off mechs when I get them.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 23 March 2015 - 09:27 PM.