309 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Builds aside, the Zeus can't tank at all which the Victor can very well and has about the same hardpoints and jump-jets if you want them. So you have to play the Zeus for offense and then never get shot while attacking. Hard to do when a Dire-Wolf is coming straight at you, but that is your only tactic. Frontal attacks with no cover to zig-zag through will fail. It's an interesting challenge and hard to pull off. If the Zeus is not made any tougher movement Quirks would help with this tactic, but tougher is better, easier.

[LordMelvin]

I saw a guy one match using the 9S with an assortment of LPL and LL. Looked like it would run pretty hot normally but he had 22 DHS or something. He claimed he had an XL 400 but I wasn't able to fit all that and any armor. Might try an XL 300 instead.

Overall I like the mech. I haven't finished basics on any of them yet but for the time I was messing around in stock builds it feels like a more nimble Battlemaster.

[sneeking]

Na 390 is its engine cap.

He tells pork pies

[Ultimax]

Sjorpha, on 23 March 2015 - 12:16 AM, said:

The appeal of sword and board, assuming you mean having a full shield side, is pretty much the same as fighting with a shield and sword in M&B. I think it's interesting and fun to master shielding, it's a distinctly separate skill than regular torso twisting. More tactics to use equals more fun for me.

With boating it's different, I like specialising because it's about perfecting a tool for a task. In my view always mixing everything up is much more bland than a range of distinctly different roles. Like dancing, I'm a passionate dancer, even if you mix styles you still need to explore distinct styles to arrive at a point where you can mix them in interesting ways. There is a beauty in optimisation that goes beyond the goal of winning, just like I admire the beauty of a well designed tool or machine in the real world, I enjoy the conceptualisation of optimised mechs in it self, whether that means boating or mixing is less important.

The good news is that there is no conflict here, we can both build our mechs the way we like best. Lucky us.

This is a great post, I wish I could like it more than once.

[Sarlic]

I bow for people who play M&B.

That game is great...such a winner. But it has balance issues as well. Especially with High money siege. The Nords almost wins everything on equipment alone.

Rhodok is not much behind, but their awfull crossbows..

[N a p e s]

The Zeus has been good to me running a variation of 2xAC5 and 4xMLas but really this build is more to my liking and I look forward to testing it out properly.

Edit: Fixed Smurfy's build.

Edited by PowerOfNapes, 23 March 2015 - 06:52 AM.

[sneeking]

5t free and empty slots available, yea ok

[Greenjulius]

sneeking, on 23 March 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

5t free and empty slots available, yea ok

He probably just forgot to drop some DHS in the engine and left torso...

My overall view of the Zeus at the moment is that I like it. It's a more mobile version of the Battlemaster, and feels more like a heavy than an assault. And there aren't many assaults I like taking out, King Crab and Dire Wolf included. They are just too slow, and I need my speed, baby!

I don't think I completely agree with others who have said the Zeus is boring... I like the Zeus, and think it's very close to being where it needs to be. I just feel that the right arm needs more prominence on the two variants with only 1 missile hardpoint. A second missile hardpoint would really help turn the Zeus into the "Support Heavy/Assault" that IS has never really had. I enjoy running it similarly to how some clan players run Timberwolves; a combo of lasers and LRMs. That's why the 3 missile hardpoint variant is my definite favorite.

Edited by Greenjulius, 23 March 2015 - 06:47 AM.

[SethAbercromby]

Sarlic, on 23 March 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

I bow for people who play M&B.

That game is great...such a winner. But it has balance issues as well. Especially with High money siege. The Nords almost wins everything on equipment alone.

Rhodok is not much behind, but their awfull crossbows..

Nords and Rhodoks are both excellent with infantry, but they both lack cavalry. Also, while Nords are devastating in the offense, Rhodoks excel in the defense with their powerful spear walls. You'll also want Swadian Knights for heavy cavalry and Vaegir Marksmen for their excellent archery.

[N a p e s]

sneeking, on 23 March 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

5t free and empty slots available, yea ok

You sound upset...

Greenjulius, on 23 March 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

He probably just forgot to drop some DHS in the engine and left torso...

My overall view of the Zeus at the moment is that I like it. It's a more mobile version of the Battlemaster, and feels more like a heavy than an assault. And there aren't many assaults I like taking out, King Crab and Dire Wolf included. They are just too slow, and I need my speed, baby!

I don't think I completely agree with others who have said the Zeus is boring... I like the Zeus, and think it's very close to being where it needs to be. I just feel that the right arm needs more prominence on the two variants with only 1 missile hardpoint. A second missile hardpoint would really help turn the Zeus into the "Support Heavy/Assault" that IS has never really had. I enjoy running it similarly to how some clan players run Timberwolves; a combo of lasers and LRMs. That's why the 3 missile hardpoint variant is my definite favorite.

GreenJulius, figured it out!

Also agree that it feels nice for an 80 tonner. Hitboxes feel pretty balanced and the standard engine let's you tank quite a bit of damage.

[SethAbercromby]

Greenjulius, on 23 March 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

A second missile hardpoint would really help turn the Zeus into the "Support Heavy/Assault" that IS has never really had.

My Stalkers would like to disagree with you on the Support role, though i would also like to see a few more missiles fit on the 9S at least.

[Greenjulius]

SethAbercromby, on 23 March 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

My Stalkers would like to disagree with you on the Support role, though i would also like to see a few more missiles fit on the 9S at least.

The Stalker is a backline LRM/ERLL boat for the most part... Their complete lack of speed is the main reason I don't really consider them a support mech so much as a gunboat/LRMboat.

For me, (I'm sure everyone has different definitions) a support role is one where the mech isn't really the front or backline mech, but can do many things. Not necessarily the best at any one of them, but a solid platform for defense as well as offense. The Zeus can go really fast for an assualt, and bring considerable firepower if configured for it. It reminds me of why I love the Kitfox... It can carry considerable firepower and carry a variety of weapon systems effectively.

PowerOfNapes, on 23 March 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

Also agree that it feels nice for an 80 tonner. Hitboxes feel pretty balanced and the standard engine let's you tank quite a bit of damage.

This is also something I agree with. The armor quirks really helped the Zeus to feel tankier than any 80 tonner has the right to be. I especially love the ST and CT armor buffs.

Edited by Greenjulius, 23 March 2015 - 07:14 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lightfoot, on 23 March 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

Builds aside, the Zeus can't tank at all which the Victor can very well and has about the same hardpoints and jump-jets if you want them. So you have to play the Zeus for offense and then never get shot while attacking. Hard to do when a Dire-Wolf is coming straight at you, but that is your only tactic. Frontal attacks with no cover to zig-zag through will fail. It's an interesting challenge and hard to pull off. If the Zeus is not made any tougher movement Quirks would help with this tactic, but tougher is better, easier.

lol.

This is wrong on so many levels.

[sneeking]

I like that I can build it fast enough and hot enough so I can go pop at a moments notice,,, should the need to pop arise lol.

[Greenjulius]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

lol.

This is wrong on so many levels.

You and I may disagree on many points, but in this I'm in complete agreement Bishop. The Zeus tanks very well. The Victor? I feel like a paper mech when I run that poor thing. However, I haven't ran it since the movement adjustments last week, so maybe it's better now.

Either way however, I don't know how anyone could say the Victor tanks better, when the Zeus has 83 extra points of armor that the Victor can never have. The Victor gets what... 10 extra structure points per leg?

Zeus:
17 Armor bonus per leg
17 Armor bonus per side torso
15 Armor bonus for center torso

That makes it possible to have 85 points of armor on your side torsos. That's more than an Atlas or Direwolf. (84 points of armor for them)

The 15 extra points of CT armor give it the effective CT armor of a 90 tonner, 115 points of armor available.

100 Tonner side torsos, 90 tonner CT, 100 tonner armor for legs? Sounds tanky for an 80 tonner to me.

Also, am I correct that the Zeus has the "Heavy" movement archetype? It feels reasonably maneuverable, even without elite skills. I'm looking forward to mastering them.

Edited by Greenjulius, 23 March 2015 - 07:34 AM.

[SethAbercromby]

Greenjulius, on 23 March 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

For me, (I'm sure everyone has different definitions) a support role is one where the mech isn't really the front or backline mech, but can do many things. Not necessarily the best at any one of them, but a solid platform for defense as well as offense.

I suppose we could argue all day about that, but what I like about that Stalker is that while it lacks speed, it makes up for that with a lot of versatility. My 5S is designed around the concept of multi-range direct/indirect fire support the 3F uses as a base idea in its stock configuration.

[DocBach]

I'm having fun with the 6T; triple srm6 with Artemis has a pretty nice grouping. I run a ppc for longer range and quirk bonus, two medium lasers with a 340 std engine. Pretty tough brawler.

[Greenjulius]

SethAbercromby, on 23 March 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

I suppose we could argue all day about that, but what I like about that Stalker is that while it lacks speed, it makes up for that with a lot of versatility. My 5S is designed around the concept of multi-range direct/indirect fire support the 3F uses as a base idea in its stock configuration.

I'll retract what I said... that's a very versatile build. You've got everything and the kitchen sink on that thing.

[Ultimax]

Greenjulius, on 23 March 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

You and I may disagree on many points, but in this I'm in complete agreement Bishop. The Zeus tanks very well. The Victor? I feel like a paper mech when I run that poor thing. However, I haven't ran it since the movement adjustments last week, so maybe it's better now.

Either way however, I don't know how anyone could say the Victor tanks better, when the Zeus has 83 extra points of armor that the Victor can never have. The Victor gets what... 10 extra structure points per leg?

Zeus:
17 Armor bonus per leg
17 Armor bonus per side torso
15 Armor bonus for center torso

That makes it possible to have 85 points of armor on your side torsos. That's more than an Atlas or Direwolf. (84 points of armor for them)

The 15 extra points of CT armor give it the effective CT armor of a 90 tonner, 115 points of armor available.

100 Tonner side torsos, 90 tonner CT, 100 tonner armor for legs? Sounds tanky for an 80 tonner to me.

Also, am I correct that the Zeus has the "Heavy" movement archetype? It feels reasonably maneuverable, even without elite skills. I'm looking forward to mastering them.

My main issue is that the Zeus seems to be in the TDR / BLR family of design.

Those mechs needed solid quirks to be more (IMO), I think the Zeus still needs another quirk pass to be more.


I like the tankyness it has, but build wise I keep hitting roadblocks.


I know it's crazy, I know I'll get flack for it, but I have to be honest.

If I run a STD engine, I end up slow with sad firepower for an 80T mech.
If I run an XL I can get more firepower at a risk, but even this level of firepower feels like it's barely Gargoyle level.


That's my honest feeling, I actually feel like the Gargoyle is the stronger mech - even with that crazy huge 400XL engine.

That's how it feels for me, because of how I prefer to play mechs. I'm OK with primarily 1 or 2 weapon types as opposed to more multiple system loadouts.


The Zeus has more flexibility (and looks a hell of a lot better IMO) and therefore a wider variety of build options - the Gargoyle has strong firepower options but it's in a straight-jacket when it comes to build options/customizing.


They're probably not too far off each other, and if it weren't for clan weapons & clan XL these mechs would be like two peas in a pod.

[Apnu]

I am not a pilot who likes to focus on one weapon system or one weapon family on my mechs, I've been liking the Zeus.

Right now I'm running my 6S with AC10, LL, 3ML, SRM6. Stock engine. Its a little tanky with enough speed go get into a brawl when the heavies go in. The range of the LL and AC10 compliment each other nicely and I can poke at medium ranges (like say the tunnel on Crimson Straights). The 6S also does pretty well with 2AC5 and LRM15 as a stand back and give fire support. The Zeus feels like it more naturally likes to sit in the back of the back and provide fire support.

The 6T is a LRM death machine. I also have a ERLL on mine and MLs for close in work and light mech discouragement. I've seen others running it with 3SRM6 on chain fire and its like a bigger brother to the Loup that way.

The 9S I strangely struggled with. At first I was trying to use is as a MPL+SRM6 brawler but that was a disaster. I tired a few other combinations of LPL and MLs with or without SRMs and finally fell back on LRM15, 2ERLL, 3ML, TAG and hung to the back like the 6S above and things improved enough I could finish basics on it w/out being totally depressed about it. I have no idea why I failed the 9S so hard.