309 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

I am down to running the 6S with 4xLPL... it seems to function as a mini Banshee fairly well. Just got a 1000 damage, 5 kill game with it first try. It runs sort of similar to a 6xMPL clanner boat.

[InRev]

Pezzer, on 22 March 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

Umm, on top of those bonuses the Zeus also gets more armor because it's an 80-tonner, and it also has a few extra tons for weapons/a big engine. I think the biggest advantage the Zeus has it's that it's almost the same size as an Orion, yet gets the extra armor and potential room for more weaponry.

A Zeus going 64kph before Speed Tweak has 31.06 tons free with a standard engine and 42.06 with an XL. An Orion going that same speed has 31.56 tons (half a ton more!) with a standard engine and 41.06 with an XL. The Zeus gains a grand total of 32 points of stock armor (or one ton) for 5 tons more weight. Not a big difference at all.

Honestly, it's a matter of hitboxes and quirks to tell the difference.

The Zeus has better defensive quirks (17 ST armor vs 16 ST structure and 15 CT armor vs 0 CT structure. The leg armor bonus basically gives you a half ton free for stripping from the legs. Armor bonuses are, imo, superior since they protect your weapons from crits better) while the Orion has superior offensive quirks (not going to compare them all but, for the most part, the Orion's weapon quirks are much better than the Zeus's, which are frankly terrible for the most part).

That leaves hitboxes and all I have for that is hearsay. The Orion has terrible hitboxes and loses its STs if someone looks at them while, the Zeus supposedly attracts CT damage a bit more (like the Grasshover) but is XL safer.

I'm really not a fan of putting XLs in my assaults (I tend to play against players who are good enough to perform "XL checks" effortlessly) so, honestly, it sounds like the Zeus is just an Orion that uses an assault spot.

In conclusion, the Zeus really needs better offensive quirks to make it worth losing a potential King Crab or Dire Wolf

Edited by InRev, 22 March 2015 - 07:27 PM.

[Something Wrong]

Honestly, I'm now grinding out the last Master Module Slot on the last Zeus.

After experimenting with many builds and finding some decent ones, I'm ready to render my own judgement on the Zeus.

Is the Zeus terrible? No, it is not. It's an XL friendly assault with some decent room for playing with builds.

Is it a game changing meta mech? No, it is not. It just doesn't have the capacity or quirks to provide a platform to add anything to the endgame.

Is it fun to play? (subjective) No, it's not. That may be the resentment from grinding all three our to master, but I genuinely didn't have fun with the Zeus.

None of the builds (I tried everything I could think of) were gimmicky, weird, fun or amazing. They were... Functional in the same way an accountant is. Boring as hell but gets the job done. I would much rather go back to my Jagermechs, my Dire Wolfs and my King Crabs. Those three offer both effective AND fun builds, often at the same time.

Final Verdict of the Zeus: Boring, but functional.

[Bishop Steiner]

Greenjulius, on 22 March 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

I am down to running the 6S with 4xLPL... it seems to function as a mini Banshee fairly well. Just got a 1000 damage, 5 kill game with it first try. It runs sort of similar to a 6xMPL clanner boat.

I will never understand the appeal of the "1gun" and Sword and Board mechs. I ever start getting so competitive I start doing that, I think it's time to uninstall.

So sad seeing all these builds that say "Awesome"Variant" more than Zeus. 4 LL K2s, 4 LPL Zoos, 4 ERLL Hoppers. How are these builds even interesting or fun?

To each their own, I guess.

[Bishop Steiner]

May have added my "winner" 6T.

360xl
3x aSRM6 w/6tons ammo
3x ML
1x ERLL

I dubbed it the "StinkFist". Seems to dole out damage rather nicely. First match pulled 777 dmg, 3 kills, 107 score. Seems like it has brawler potential.

[Greenjulius]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

I will never understand the appeal of the "1gun" and Sword and Board mechs. I ever start getting so competitive I start doing that, I think it's time to uninstall.

So sad seeing all these builds that say "Awesome"Variant" more than Zeus. 4 LL K2s, 4 LPL Zoos, 4 ERLL Hoppers. How are these builds even interesting or fun?

To each their own, I guess.

My alternative is losing every match I play because I can't quickly kill all of the enemy I come across. I'm to the point where it is a very rare game if I can get by doing "average" or little.

Usually I have to get at least 3 or more kills on my own to pull off a win. Much of the time even 5 or more kills isn't enough however. If I only do damage without killing, I can do over 800, 900, 1000+ damage and still lose. I can't trust anyone to get the job done but myself.

That said, I really wish things weren't to the point where I had to go that route, but it's definitely the only way I can achieve a 50/50 win loss ratio. Losing 75% or more of your games is not fun, and will never be fun. That's what I experienced with the grasshopper, and had with the Zeus 6S until I went back to laser vomit.

I just can't seem to get a mixed Ballistic/Energy/Missile build to function with the same efficiency, although I did have some success with 3xERLL + Gauss.

Edited by Greenjulius, 22 March 2015 - 10:08 PM.

[Jackofallpots]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

I will never understand the appeal of the "1gun" and Sword and Board mechs. I ever start getting so competitive I start doing that, I think it's time to uninstall.

So sad seeing all these builds that say "Awesome"Variant" more than Zeus. 4 LL K2s, 4 LPL Zoos, 4 ERLL Hoppers. How are these builds even interesting or fun?

To each their own, I guess.

I put 4 ERLLs on my ® Hopper precisely because I want it to be different from my other ones while taking advantage of the quirks, my others are one boating MPLs and the other has 2 LPLs and 5 MLs

That's what I think is fun at least, letting you switch up play-styles between chassis

[Reitrix]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

I will never understand the appeal of the "1gun" and Sword and Board mechs. I ever start getting so competitive I start doing that, I think it's time to uninstall.

So sad seeing all these builds that say "Awesome"Variant" more than Zeus. 4 LL K2s, 4 LPL Zoos, 4 ERLL Hoppers. How are these builds even interesting or fun?

To each their own, I guess.

1 gun builds have their place ... On a light

i don't even care about what the comp folk are doing. I've always run my 'Mechs with mixed loadouts where possible. Hell, even my A1 runs a mix of LRMs and SRMs.

What bores me even more than 1 gun builds though, is the 1 weapon group builds. Just slap it all in one group, aim center mass, pull trigger, run away to overheat. Bleh.

[Axeface]

I'm liking the Zeus (apart from MM targetting me for annihilation over the last few days). And I think it's a good CW mech because of it's weight. I've built most of them to be LL pokers, but with some backup weapons it's like a mid range poker than can brawl if it wants. Versatile mech and one I might actually use a lot.

My builds after much testing and all mastered. I've had problems coming up with a build for the 6S I liked though. Classic pgi to make the cbill variant the less clearcut mech.

ZEU-6T - 3LL 3SRM4 STD335 - Left side poking, cool, and can brawl well once the battle gets close. My fave. You can switch an LL for some mediums and more sinks if you want.

ZEU-6S - 3LL LB10x STD325 - Use it similar to the 6T build. Poke untill you can poke no more and then finish with the lb.

ZEU-6S - 2PPC 2AC5 XL340 - XL one. Works well but I hate the survivabilty hit.

ZEU-9S - 3LL 3Meds STD340 - This is a good mech, and again, a poker.

Edited by Axeface, 22 March 2015 - 11:01 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

May have added my "winner" 6T.

360xl
3x aSRM6 w/6tons ammo
3x ML
1x ERLL

I dubbed it the "StinkFist". Seems to dole out damage rather nicely. First match pulled 777 dmg, 3 kills, 107 score. Seems like it has brawler potential.

Intersting - i call it sunflower.... armed with one HV PPC - 3 MLAS, 3ASRM6 - Endosteel and a loan from my Banshee - a 380XL engine.

Of course its a Zeus so my "room" to modify stuff and build kinky FrankenMechs is Nil.
The 6S became a Leonidas Brannock Zeus (Zeus - in Red, Black and SilverGrey) - but not 100%
Gauss, ALRM20, ERLargeLaser, Mediumlasers , ES 325XL

Only STD Reactor Zeus and FrankenMech- is the 9S. The Energy HPs in the Left Arm have a "higher" mount so i did mount a trio of ER-Large Lasers there. Secondary Armament MediumLaser

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Greenjulius, on 22 March 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

My alternative is losing every match I play because I can't quickly kill all of the enemy I come across. I'm to the point where it is a very rare game if I can get by doing "average" or little.

Usually I have to get at least 3 or more kills on my own to pull off a win. Much of the time even 5 or more kills isn't enough however. If I only do damage without killing, I can do over 800, 900, 1000+ damage and still lose. I can't trust anyone to get the job done but myself.

That said, I really wish things weren't to the point where I had to go that route, but it's definitely the only way I can achieve a 50/50 win loss ratio. Losing 75% or more of your games is not fun, and will never be fun. That's what I experienced with the grasshopper, and had with the Zeus 6S until I went back to laser vomit.

I just can't seem to get a mixed Ballistic/Energy/Missile build to function with the same efficiency, although I did have some success with 3xERLL + Gauss.

You're in a self - inflicted Elo trap. Just play what you want. If the builds aren't ultra competitive then your Elo will adjust as you lose more and you will soon be back to a reasonable W:L ratio (outside of CW, obviously) .

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

May have added my "winner" 6T.

360xl
3x aSRM6 w/6tons ammo
3x ML
1x ERLL

I dubbed it the "StinkFist". Seems to dole out damage rather nicely. First match pulled 777 dmg, 3 kills, 107 score. Seems like it has brawler potential.

I've been running one with 3 ASRM6, 2 ML and a LPL. Stock engine, full armor and the SRM6 range module. Surprisingly effective and quite tanky. I sacrifice the laser side as a shield to preserve the SRM6 arm for the end game and it can fire the missiles without any heat problems.

Is it as good as any of the Clan heavies or even a Jaeger/Cataphract? Not really. But it's fun to stick that right arm round a corner and who something on the nose with 18 SRMs.

[Greenjulius]

RocketDog, on 22 March 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

You're in a self - inflicted Elo trap. Just play what you want. If the builds aren't ultra competitive then your Elo will adjust as you lose more and you will soon be back to a reasonable W:L ratio (outside of CW, obviously) .

I completely agree with you. I get matched up against guys I know firsthand are better than me, and see no one on my team that I am familiar with, mostly noobs and drunk guys, with the occasional good player or two. I expect to get rolled 0-12, no lube, gg clothes.

If I could choose to play stock mech mode, I would jump on the chance and enjoy the hell out of it. It just doesn't exist unfortunately.

I did indeed TRY to do what you say a few weeks ago. I just tried to play a few mechs that aren't hyper competitive, but are mixed and interesting. I did this with the Panthers and Enforcers during a challenge weekend.

I was greeted with a 17 game losing streak until I rolled right back to good old clan laservomit, barely winning despite doing a 6 kill, 1100 damage game in my cheesy Loki. It makes me want to play another game sometimes.

Edited by Greenjulius, 23 March 2015 - 12:08 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

I will never understand the appeal of the "1gun" and Sword and Board mechs. I ever start getting so competitive I start doing that, I think it's time to uninstall.

The appeal of sword and board, assuming you mean having a full shield side, is pretty much the same as fighting with a shield and sword in M&B. I think it's interesting and fun to master shielding, it's a distinctly separate skill than regular torso twisting. More tactics to use equals more fun for me.

With boating it's different, I like specialising because it's about perfecting a tool for a task. In my view always mixing everything up is much more bland than a range of distinctly different roles. Like dancing, I'm a passionate dancer, even if you mix styles you still need to explore distinct styles to arrive at a point where you can mix them in interesting ways. There is a beauty in optimisation that goes beyond the goal of winning, just like I admire the beauty of a well designed tool or machine in the real world, I enjoy the conceptualisation of optimised mechs in it self, whether that means boating or mixing is less important.

The good news is that there is no conflict here, we can both build our mechs the way we like best. Lucky us.

Edited by Sjorpha, 23 March 2015 - 12:18 AM.

[sneeking]

Drunk guys ?

Stomping about pissed in a shiny new zeus is fun lol.

[Greenjulius]

sneeking, on 23 March 2015 - 12:17 AM, said:

Drunk guys ?

Stomping about pissed in a shiny new zeus is fun lol.

I have come to the conclusion that there are more alchoholics in MWO than any other game I play. The real debate is whether MWO drove them to drink or not...

[Telmasa]

Greenjulius, on 22 March 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

Also, the catapult is a dead end mech. It's too big, too limited, too slow, unless you skimp on other things like ammo or armor. The Zeus can do the same things at the same speed, with significantly more armor and arm mounted TAG.
I've put together a similar setup with the Catapult C1 and got it to run just as fast, but with far less armor, and less heat efficient.

It doesn't feel too big or slow to me; maneuvering to flank and make a pain out of myself never is trouble in the Cat.
Skimping on half a ton of armor isn't a big deal, and I hardly have ammo issues unless it's the last mech standing.

Here's my two C1 builds (even has the same XL300engine!):
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4c5f2fea730a1ec
(I actually trade a ton of ammo for another heatsink or jumpjet, usually)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...925981ed2151029
^ no real reason other than to laugh at "metamech" builds & feel like a Stalker gone wrong

InRev, on 22 March 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

In conclusion, the Zeus really needs better offensive quirks to make it worth losing a potential King Crab or Dire Wolf

This made me laugh.

In order to be "worth losing a potential King Crab or Dire Wolf", the Zeus would have to pack on an additional 20 tons. You can't compare an 80 ton mech to a 100 ton mech on equal terms.

Edited by Telmasa, 23 March 2015 - 01:01 AM.

[SethAbercromby]

Just to throw in a few of my own experiences here I've made over grinding the Zeus the last 2 days.

The stock STD320 appears to be the personal sweet spot for me with the Zeus for now. The 325 doesn't net me enough speed to justify the extra ton and the Zeus isn't in desperate need of that extra Heat Sink slot. I've never been a fan of XL engines on Assault 'Mechs, but I may downgrade to a 315 or 310 somewhere down the road if i'm in need of tonnage.

After running the stock stock 6S for a while, I noticed that it didn't take to the "churn and burn" method of engagement too well. I did however realize that with it's speed, it was much easier to relocvate and use the LRMs and the LLas effectively. With the AC5 also being able to do ful damage well beyond 700m made the 'Mech quite effective as a mid to long range fire supporter which befits its lore purpose as a command 'Mech very well.

With that in mind, I decided to take the 'Mech to its logical extreme by upgrading it with another AC5. It will probably end up with a STD310 to pack more ammo though.

I tried a similar approach with the 9S, trying to work in an LRM, the (ER)PPC and some backup weapons, but as I tried with varous options, I just didn't find one that took proper advantage of the LA E harpoints and all builds could have been done just as well with the 6T (and I like to use configurations that cannot be done the exact same by other variants).

So I ended up deciding to drop the missiles completely and equip the 'Mech with 3 ERLLs plus backup weaponry. Not my favorite of the bunch but I was able to get some decent scores.

The 6T I haven't been able to decide which design to follow. he two options I came up with are either
3 ASRM6 semi-brawler (may replace the PPC with an LPL, but I like having options)
3 LRM10 long range support (similar design approach as with the 6S, but less ammo reliant and a little more power at longer range, at the cost of mid-range performance)

[Bawbagzz]

Greenjulius, on 23 March 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

I completely agree with you. I get matched up against guys I know firsthand are better than me, and see no one on my team that I am familiar with, mostly noobs and drunk guys, with the occasional good player or two. I expect to get rolled 0-12, no lube, gg clothes.

If I could choose to play stock mech mode, I would jump on the chance and enjoy the hell out of it. It just doesn't exist unfortunately.

I did indeed TRY to do what you say a few weeks ago. I just tried to play a few mechs that aren't hyper competitive, but are mixed and interesting. I did this with the Panthers and Enforcers during a challenge weekend.

I was greeted with a 17 game losing streak until I rolled right back to good old clan laservomit, barely winning despite doing a 6 kill, 1100 damage game in my cheesy Loki. It makes me want to play another game sometimes.

I know how you feel mate.I've had lots of matches where no matter how well you play,scoring over 1000 (sometimes 1400) damage and the next guy on your team does 300,it's just not fun.That's when I just go to my alt account and play on that.Gives me a break from the ELO hell anyway.

[sneeking]

Greenjulius, on 23 March 2015 - 12:27 AM, said:

I have come to the conclusion that there are more alchoholics in MWO than any other game I play. The real debate is whether MWO drove them to drink or not...

No we're just old drunken barbarians from the 70's we're drawn here like moths to the flame by things like this...


Its fun build with some variety.

Lots to see and do lol.