309 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

Apnu, on 23 March 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

The 9S I strangely struggled with. At first I was trying to use is as a MPL+SRM6 brawler but that was a disaster. I tired a few other combinations of LPL and MLs with or without SRMs and finally fell back on LRM15, 2ERLL, 3ML, TAG and hung to the back like the 6S above and things improved enough I could finish basics on it w/out being totally depressed about it. I have no idea why I failed the 9S so hard.

Just give up and join the laser vomiting hordes with either 4xERLL or 4xLPL.

[FupDup]

Greenjulius, on 23 March 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

Just give up and join the laser vomiting hordes with either 4xERLL or 4xLPL.

[Ultimax]

Greenjulius, on 23 March 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

Just give up and join the laser vomiting hordes with either 4xERLL or 4xLPL.

IN YO FACE!!


I just whipped that up now as a joke, but that might actually be good for a whirl...

Edited by Ultimatum X, 23 March 2015 - 08:38 AM.

[DaZur]

I've got my -6S dialed in and I'm not budging unless a quirk pass makes me re-think it...

300 XL + A/C10 + A/C2 + 2 x lLas (Fully mastered & moduled)

I realized with the focus on direct-fire weapons on the Zeus that exposure and ablative damage is it's weakness. In short, in order to pour enough damage on a target to be beneficial I had to expose myself too much as the cycle rate of higher caliber AC and lLas were too long and it gave my opposition to much time to return fire.

The A/C2 proved to be fix for this... I can "face time" with an apposing mech and keep constant pressure on them with the AC/2 due to it's cycle rate while the AC/10 and lLas cycle. I'm not doing a ton of damage with that AC/2... I'm just keeping them on their heels while I line up my next big shot with the 10 and the 2xlLas.

I was using the LBX but it proved to be a detriment when engaging at range and I've opted for the bigger PP damage of the standard 10.

It's working boss right now...

Edited by DaZur, 23 March 2015 - 08:47 AM.

[Apnu]

Greenjulius, on 23 March 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

Just give up and join the laser vomiting hordes with either 4xERLL or 4xLPL.

That's what I use the Grasshopper for.

DaZur, on 23 March 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

I've got my -6S dialed in and I'm not budging unless a quirk pass makes me re-think it...

300 XL + A/C10 + A/C2 + 2 x lLas (Fully mastered & moduled)

I realized with the focus on direct-fire weapons on the Zeus that exposure and ablative damage is it's weakness. In short, in order to pour enough damage on a target to be beneficial I had to expose myself too much as the cycle rate of higher caliber AC and lLas were too long and it gave my opposition to much time to return fire.

The A/C2 proved to be fix for this... I can "face time" with an apposing mech and keep constant pressure on them with the AC/2 due to it's cycle rate while the AC/10 and lLas cycle. I'm not doing a ton of damage with that AC/2... I'm just keeping them on their heels while I line up my next big shot with the 10 and the 2xlLas.

I was using the LBX but it proved to be a detriment when engaging at range and I've opted for the bigger PP damage of the standard 10.

It's working boss right now...

Try it with 2 AC5 and a level 5 cooldown module. Put it on chain fire and its like a AC2 only way more damage.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 23 March 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

My main issue is that the Zeus seems to be in the TDR / BLR family of design.

Those mechs needed solid quirks to be more (IMO), I think the Zeus still needs another quirk pass to be more.


I like the tankyness it has, but build wise I keep hitting roadblocks.


I know it's crazy, I know I'll get flack for it, but I have to be honest.

If I run a STD engine, I end up slow with sad firepower for an 80T mech.
If I run an XL I can get more firepower at a risk, but even this level of firepower feels like it's barely Gargoyle level.


That's my honest feeling, I actually feel like the Gargoyle is the stronger mech - even with that crazy huge 400XL engine.

That's how it feels for me, because of how I prefer to play mechs. I'm OK with primarily 1 or 2 weapon types as opposed to more multiple system loadouts.


The Zeus has more flexibility (and looks a hell of a lot better IMO) and therefore a wider variety of build options - the Gargoyle has strong firepower options but it's in a straight-jacket when it comes to build options/customizing.


They're probably not too far off each other, and if it weren't for clan weapons & clan XL these mechs would be like two peas in a pod.

So basically, this can be summed up as "This is not the chassis you're looking for".

And that's OK, if you ask me.

I don't get why everyone has to think every chassis has to fit into a specific mold. Some mechs are generalists, and work very well, for people who play them that way. If I want a boat, I'll run a boat. Etc. I think people need to stop trying to fit every mech into the "Meta-Box". Russ has said flat out, that is not really a consideration they make. After all, to make them truly "comp grade", would require some very standardized scale, hitboxes, and some pretty homogeneous hardpoints.

Only real glaring weakness I see with the Chassis is people who either want to over engine it (hint, you'd do better in a Heavy Mech, and probably have more tons left for guns) or boat with it, which I think it's pretty mediocre at.

On the other hand, I do prefer more flexible builds, and I have been finding it very solid at that. Just like the Vindicator, it ain't probably gonna be the mech for everyone. But also like the Vindicator, or any other chassis, there are those who "get it", and click with it.

Apnu, on 23 March 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

I am not a pilot who likes to focus on one weapon system or one weapon family on my mechs, I've been liking the Zeus.

Right now I'm running my 6S with AC10, LL, 3ML, SRM6. Stock engine. Its a little tanky with enough speed go get into a brawl when the heavies go in. The range of the LL and AC10 compliment each other nicely and I can poke at medium ranges (like say the tunnel on Crimson Straights). The 6S also does pretty well with 2AC5 and LRM15 as a stand back and give fire support. The Zeus feels like it more naturally likes to sit in the back of the back and provide fire support.

The 6T is a LRM death machine. I also have a ERLL on mine and MLs for close in work and light mech discouragement. I've seen others running it with 3SRM6 on chain fire and its like a bigger brother to the Loup that way.

The 9S I strangely struggled with. At first I was trying to use is as a MPL+SRM6 brawler but that was a disaster. I tired a few other combinations of LPL and MLs with or without SRMs and finally fell back on LRM15, 2ERLL, 3ML, TAG and hung to the back like the 6S above and things improved enough I could finish basics on it w/out being totally depressed about it. I have no idea why I failed the 9S so hard.

your last build is similar to mine. It doesn't put up the biggest numbers, but it does what it should...support the unit, and kill things, at least for me. But the 6S is my fave so far.

Ultimatum X, on 23 March 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

IN YO FACE!!


I just whipped that up now as a joke, but that might actually be good for a whirl...

how thoroughly .....boring? LOL.

[DaZur]

Apnu, on 23 March 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Try it with 2 AC5 and a level 5 cooldown module. Put it on chain fire and its like a AC2 only way more damage.

I have... but I found myself longing for a bigger punch when I needed it. With the twin AC/5s in chain I found my shots wandering all over the place and not delivering the location specific damage I was looking for....

With the AC/10 + AC/2 combo with the lLas I have means to drop a 30 point shot on a location of choice while keeping the pressure on between cycles.

At the end of the day the two are splitting hairs... It comes down the personal preference and play-style.

I like picking my shots versus spray and pray.

Edited by DaZur, 23 March 2015 - 09:38 AM.

[Sarlic]

Another thing to add:

Who thinks the CT of the Zeus is NOT fine?

It IS fine. I have encountered them in brawls and they can tank perfectly as well. Only many are not twisting enough.

[Roadkill]

I've been playing with my builds trying to find something better. I'm still running an XL350 in each of them... bought the engines so might as well use them.

6S® - this started out as 3xLL, 2xAC/5 and while that was pretty solid it just felt kind of meh. It's now 2xAC/5, 2xPPC, 2xML and it's much more effective. AC/5-PPC sync is pretty good so I can put a 30-pt alpha downrange when I need to. The ML provide backup when someone decides to try to facehug me to get under the PPC minimum, or can be used to supplement at shorter ranges.

9S - this started out as and still is 4 x LPL. That 1-2 punch, all from the left side, is really nice to play with.

6T - this started out as 3 x ASRM-6, 4 LL. That only left room for 2 tons of SRM ammo and it ran hot, but that was generally sufficient because the Mech was sooo fragile due to the XL350. I've since converted it to 3 x ALRM-5, 3 LL, BAP, and 6 tons of ammo. It's still weaker than either of my other Zeuses, but now it at least fills a niche for the chassis. I really wish it had 1 more missile hardpoint, though. A 4th ALRM-5 would make it a nice Mech.

[Axeface]

Ultimatum X, on 23 March 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

IN YO FACE!!


I just whipped that up now as a joke, but that might actually be good for a whirl...

Looks good. I'de strip armour from the legs and put it back to the shield arm though (and i'de put the lpl in the arm for pokey goodness ).

Edited by Axeface, 23 March 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[Apnu]

Ultimatum X, on 23 March 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

IN YO FACE!!


I just whipped that up now as a joke, but that might actually be good for a whirl...

Too hot for a proper brawl, what's the point of having a shield arm if it dies when a locust sneezes? If I were to do this idea, I'd go with: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f8c10690ee23153

[Bishop Steiner]

Sarlic, on 23 March 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

It IS fine. I have encountered them in brawls and they can tank perfectly as well. Only many are not twisting enough.

This. I note certain people pretty consistently posting the same thing, and it leads me to think that those folks don't twist near as well as they think they do.

I'm starting to wish they could put some nice gyro/agility penalties in on all these lopsided mechs, lol.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

This. I note certain people pretty consistently posting the same thing, and it leads me to think that those folks don't twist near as well as they think they do.

That and folks tend to pidgin-hole certain mechs play-style based on class.

I've railed for years the problem with certain mechs is how they are played(*cough* Awesome *cough*)... the Zeus is no exception.

While "tanky"... at 80 tons they most certain are not "tanks". I'd categorize the Zeus' play-style as tactical / situational. I.e... You have to think a bit about how and where to engage and not just wander around with impunity.

[Bishop Steiner]

DaZur, on 23 March 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

That and folks tend to pidgin-hole certain mechs play-style based on class.

I've railed for years the problem with certain mechs is how they are played(*cough* Awesome *cough*)... the Zeus is no exception.

While "tanky"... at 80 tons they most certain are not "tanks". I'd categorize the Zeus' play-style as tactical / situational. I.e... You have to think a bit about how and where to engage and not just wander around with impunity.

Yep. Same reason why some folks can make Mist Lynx and Kitfox work, despite not playing like a "proper" Light. Or some folk can rock a Vidy, despite it being lousy at boating anything.

Because it doesn't fit into a convenient cookie cutter box, it must be a BAD.

I call it the Roland-Vassago Effect.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 March 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

I call it the Vassago-Roland Effect.

Sounds like something that might be cured with a bolus of Penicillin and a good nights rest...

Too bad it's highly contagious (especially to the newer / highly impressionable players)

[Bishop Steiner]

DaZur, on 23 March 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Sounds like something that might be cured with a bolus of Penicillin and a good nights rest...

Too bad it's highly contagious (especially to the newer / highly impressionable players)

It's been highly resistant to antibiotics, unfortunately and still crops up from time to time, at least half of it.

[Axeface]

Why would anyone say it's not tanky?
It has 115 CT armour after quirks... thats 10 shy of a dire wolf, with decent twist speed and even speed with a STD. It has 85 ST armour, that is one point MORE than a dire. And it's quite small, I think this is a good mech. And I actually took out a dakka dire yesterday (alone, both fresh).
It just lacks in the firepower department, but not too much to make it bad.

Edited by Axeface, 23 March 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[SethAbercromby]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

It's been highly resistant to antibiotics, unfortunately and still crops up from time to time, at least half of it.

I've less taken issue with Roland's opinions rather than the people quoting him like an absolute truth. Vassago is at least hilarious to read.

[Wildstreak]

Ultimatum X, on 23 March 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

If I run a STD engine, I end up slow with sad firepower for an 80T mech.
If I run an XL I can get more firepower at a risk, but even this level of firepower feels like it's barely Gargoyle level.

True, STD engine Zeus start slower than speed quirked Awesomes and those are a challenge.
Replace Gargoyle with Thunderbolt, same statement on Hoppers.

What also amazes me is the rough shape of the Zeus.
Broad shoulders, narrow waist, qualities the Awesome should have had.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

This. I note certain people pretty consistently posting the same thing, and it leads me to think that those folks don't twist near as well as they think they do.

I'm starting to wish they could put some nice gyro/agility penalties in on all these lopsided mechs, lol.

Asking for Torso/Arm Quirks?

[Christof Romulus]

Perhaps it's just the Steiner in me, but, I find myself drawn to the Zeus.

I really like it. I have the Victors, but those bring far less firepower to the table on a larger chassis more often than not.

The Zeus, in all its forms, is left torso heavy, but manages to bring decent speed, decent suitability, and decent firepower to the table. I actually find myself with no complaints about this mech at all.

Finally, Steiners get a scout mech. We were at such a disadvantage using heavies for that task.