309 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

OMG... I'm falling in love with the Zoos.

I started with just the 6T, playing around with 3xSRM6+A, 3xLRM15, and a combo of different weapons. I wasn't all that happy with any one of them, and felt a little too slow.

Then I decided to go to 2xLRM15+A, my old standby. The first game was very promising, allowing me to lay out a steady stream of LRMs without ghost heat. Then I jumped into the group queue with another friend, and had this as my first game in the group queue. The mech just feels right.





I know it's just a good LRM boat game, (I've rolled over 1400 in my BLR-1S) but the Zeus allows me to be far more mobile and responsive than my BLR-1S ever could. Maybe it's the arm mounted TAG that made the difference. The much better torso twist speed and angle, armor, cooldown and range quirks all add up to make the mech feel responsive and deadly with a XL365. You'd need a XL385 to have the same speed in a BLR, and that still wouldn't make up for the limited twist angle BLRs are hampered with.

I didn't even have the mech basiced for that match, so it will only get better. Now I really wish the ® variant had at least 2 Missile hardpoints. 30% bonus would turn this thing into my moneymaker.

BUILD

Edited by Greenjulius, 22 March 2015 - 02:41 AM.

[Telmasa]

That loadout looks like a Catapult C1 that can't jump & is slightly beefier, to me.

Don't get me wrong - tag laser on the arm and it's a mean loadout on just about any mech...I'm just kibitzing.

Have you ever *really* run out of 6 tons of ammo before a game has been already decided? I just don't get why that much ammo is necessary (on smurfy I took out the 3 tons of side torso ammo and was able to stick an xl375 in there with the 5 heatsinks while leaving all else alone).

Edited by Telmasa, 22 March 2015 - 04:22 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Malleus011, on 21 March 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

I'd been struggling with the ZEU-6S ® - couldn't manage a damage over 250 or match score over 30 for a string of six matches.. Switched to Bishop's AC/10, quad MPL, LRM15 build (dropped Artemis for AMS, since I am likely in a lower ELO which sees lots of LRM use). 350 damage, match score 60. Next match 450 damage, match score 49. Big improvement.

Strange thing though - maybe it's because I'm playing from Korea right now, but the CT and LT Pulse lasers don't always shoot the crosshairs. Sometimes they land to the right or left if I'm torso twisting. What's up with that?

I'm thinking you nailed it, Korea, multiple server travel, HSR panicking, lol.

Grey Ghost, on 22 March 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

Smufy's doesn't use Quirks, Modules, or the Fast Fire skill in any of it's calculations.

I know that. When grinding a mech, neither do I, lol. But I can have two mechs show the same "cooling" in Smurfy and get very different results in game. It's not a biggy, but I just have found some discrepancies, and I think the RoF, HPS and even number of DHS can vary actual results, even if 2 mechs (Same chassis) "show" and identical 41%, for instance.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 March 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Telmasa, on 22 March 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

That loadout looks like a Catapult C1 that can't jump & is slightly beefier, to me.

Don't get me wrong - tag laser on the arm and it's a mean loadout on just about any mech...I'm just kibitzing.

Have you ever *really* run out of 6 tons of ammo before a game has been already decided? I just don't get why that much ammo is necessary (on smurfy I took out the 3 tons of side torso ammo and was able to stick an xl375 in there with the 5 heatsinks while leaving all else alone).

If I'm LRMing I usually go somewhat ammo heavy, but I am willing to toss LRMs just to get people to scoot back to cover, and not worry about my accuracy. In my case, I don't really think the slightly larger engine would be worth it. If someone is going to come LRM heavy in match with me, I want him to blot out the sun!

[Mirumoto Izanami]

KharnZor, on 21 March 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

I love that build. However you dont really need asrm4's as normal 4's have a nice tight spread anyway.

True, but Ihad artimis on it from trying ASRM6s, and I didn't want to bother paying to remove the artimis (already had ASRM4 launchers too). It runs cool enough for me as sso... *shrug*

[Telmasa]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

I know that. When grinding a mech, neither do I, lol. But I can have two mechs show the same "cooling" in Smurfy and get very different results in game. It's not a biggy, but I just have found some discrepancies, and I think the RoF, HPS and even number of DHS can vary actual results, even if 2 mechs (Same chassis) "show" and identical 41%, for instance.

I think the "Dissapation" stat in the Weaponlab is the more important number. If you can disappate 3-4 heat per second, it usually 'feels' much cooler than a mech who doesn't (i.e. Kit Fox with a single ERPPC is listed at 48% efficiency, yet only cools 1.8 heat per second; whereas with 3 ERML + 3 heatsinks, it's 50% heat efficiency, yet HPS cooled is 2.25 - a full 25% increase.)

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

If I'm LRMing I usually go somewhat ammo heavy, but I am willing to toss LRMs just to get people to scoot back to cover, and not worry about my accuracy. In my case, I don't really think the slightly larger engine would be worth it. If someone is going to come LRM heavy in match with me, I want him to blot out the sun!

Different philosophy then; I am *all* about making my LRMs accurate, even if dump-fired.

Edited by Telmasa, 22 March 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[sneeking]

I have artimus on 9s for the single launcher but the 6t I dropped it because 1t per launcher is too much of a cost for my liking.

[Greenjulius]

Telmasa, on 22 March 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

That loadout looks like a Catapult C1 that can't jump & is slightly beefier, to me.

Don't get me wrong - tag laser on the arm and it's a mean loadout on just about any mech...I'm just kibitzing.

Have you ever *really* run out of 6 tons of ammo before a game has been already decided? I just don't get why that much ammo is necessary (on smurfy I took out the 3 tons of side torso ammo and was able to stick an xl375 in there with the 5 heatsinks while leaving all else alone).

Short answer: Absolutely. I run out of LRMs all the time because the MM expects me to be a godlike carry. This is worst in my new mechs.

Also, the catapult is a dead end mech. It's too big, too limited, too slow, unless you skimp on other things like ammo or armor. The Zeus can do the same things at the same speed, with significantly more armor and arm mounted TAG.

I've put together a similar setup with the Catapult C1 and got it to run just as fast, but with far less armor, and less heat efficient.

Build

A final note

The Zeus 6S is garbage. It's the most average mech I've run in a while, and it needs another missile hardpoint or it's going in the trash heap with the grasshoppers.

Edited by Greenjulius, 22 March 2015 - 04:15 PM.

[D34DMetal]

Greenjulius, on 22 March 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

Short answer: Absolutely. I run out of LRMs all the time because the MM expects me to be a godlike carry. This is worst in my new mechs.

Also, the catapult is a dead end mech. It's too big, too limited, too slow, unless you skimp on other things like ammo or armor. The Zeus can do the same things at the same speed, with significantly more armor and arm mounted TAG.

I've put together a similar setup with the Catapult C1 and got it to run just as fast, but with far less armor, and less heat efficient.

Build

A final note

The Zeus 6S is garbage. It's the most average mech I've run in a while, and it needs another missile hardpoint or it's going in the trash heap with the grasshoppers.

U mad? Try 325XL, 2LL, 2ML, 2AC5 (which reach out to 800+ meters with FULL damage because of the quirks), and an SRM6 to top it off. Oh yeah it also has AC5 cooldown quirks! Otherwise I will happily take your ZEU-6S off your hands.

Edited by DeadMetal89, 22 March 2015 - 04:48 PM.

[Ultimax]

I couldn't help myself.


The Red, White & Zeus.

[Bishop Steiner]

Greenjulius, on 22 March 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

Short answer: Absolutely. I run out of LRMs all the time because the MM expects me to be a godlike carry. This is worst in my new mechs.

Also, the catapult is a dead end mech. It's too big, too limited, too slow, unless you skimp on other things like ammo or armor. The Zeus can do the same things at the same speed, with significantly more armor and arm mounted TAG.

I've put together a similar setup with the Catapult C1 and got it to run just as fast, but with far less armor, and less heat efficient.

Build

A final note

The Zeus 6S is garbage. It's the most average mech I've run in a while, and it needs another missile hardpoint or it's going in the trash heap with the grasshoppers.

Odd, I'm pulling a 3 to 1 KDr in mine and averaging close to 600 dmg a match in my 6S.

[Lightfoot]

ZEU-6S is 3 Large Lasers, ac10, ams for me. Still gets hot, but you have the AC10 to cool down with.





.

Edited by Lightfoot, 27 March 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[InRev]

Ultimatum X, on 22 March 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

I couldn't help myself.


The Red, White & Zeus.

Spoiler

AMARIKA! **** YEAH!

[Nathan Foxbane]

Not quite the beast Bishop runs, but my ZEU-6S has a similar loadout while still being a zombie.

[Triban]

Dat sunflower powah doe.

[TheMadTypist]

InRev, on 22 March 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

AMARIKA! **** YEAH!

We're all living in Amarika, Amarika, ist wunderbar!

Ahem. Back on topic, it seems like the main lesson I'm to take here is that the -6S needs the firepower granted by an XL engine. Dunno, XL's and me don't get along so good, what with them being all like "ooh, look at me, I'm worth the price of another medium". That and I do always seem to lose a side before the center, but I suppose it's not your time on the field it's what you can do with it.

[InRev]

Greenjulius, on 22 March 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

A final note

The Zeus 6S is garbage. It's the most average mech I've run in a while, and it needs another missile hardpoint or it's going in the trash heap with the grasshoppers.

Ofc it's bad. It's the {R} hero variant, after all. We couldn't allow the hero variant to actually be the good one, now could we? (disclaimer, I think the Enforcer-5D is super ridiculous fun, even though I know the 4R is utterly superior)

Anyways, I'm seeing a lot of generalist 6S Zeus builds and I just don't understand why I would use one of those instead of freeing up an assault spot and taking an Orion instead. You can get basically the same (low mounted) weapon loadout at the same speed for one ton less pre-quirk armor. In fact, the Orion even has arm mounted energy (which I prefer) and torso mounted ballistics (which I also prefer) while the Zeus is the opposite (which I do not prefer). PLUS the Orion got even better quirks, especially the K variant with its generalist quirks.

Now, I know the Zeus got crazy armor quirks but the Orion also got some serious structure quirks. The only difference is the hitboxes, really. The Orion's are pretty terrible (and ruin the mech for me) so how does the Zeus compare in that regard?

[Bishop Steiner]

InRev, on 22 March 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

Ofc it's bad. It's the {R} hero variant, after all. We couldn't allow the hero variant to actually be the good one, now could we? (disclaimer, I think the Enforcer-5D is super ridiculous fun, even though I know the 4R is utterly superior)

Anyways, I'm seeing a lot of generalist 6S Zeus builds and I just don't understand why I would use one of those instead of freeing up an assault spot and taking an Orion instead. You can get basically the same (low mounted) weapon loadout at the same speed for one ton less pre-quirk armor. In fact, the Orion even has arm mounted energy (which I prefer) and torso mounted ballistics (which I also prefer) while the Zeus is the opposite (which I do not prefer). PLUS the Orion got even better quirks, especially the K variant with its generalist quirks.

Now, I know the Zeus got crazy armor quirks but the Orion also got some serious structure quirks. The only difference is the hitboxes, really. The Orion's are pretty terrible (and ruin the mech for me) so how does the Zeus compare in that regard?

I find the Zeus to be rather tanky. And I run XLs in mine.

But it is a generalists build, and as I said, I wouldn't recommend them over a Heavier Assault..unless like me, you suck in big, slow and lumbering mechs.

[Pezzer]

InRev, on 22 March 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

Ofc it's bad. It's the {R} hero variant, after all. We couldn't allow the hero variant to actually be the good one, now could we? (disclaimer, I think the Enforcer-5D is super ridiculous fun, even though I know the 4R is utterly superior)

Anyways, I'm seeing a lot of generalist 6S Zeus builds and I just don't understand why I would use one of those instead of freeing up an assault spot and taking an Orion instead. You can get basically the same (low mounted) weapon loadout at the same speed for one ton less pre-quirk armor. In fact, the Orion even has arm mounted energy (which I prefer) and torso mounted ballistics (which I also prefer) while the Zeus is the opposite (which I do not prefer). PLUS the Orion got even better quirks, especially the K variant with its generalist quirks.

Now, I know the Zeus got crazy armor quirks but the Orion also got some serious structure quirks. The only difference is the hitboxes, really. The Orion's are pretty terrible (and ruin the mech for me) so how does the Zeus compare in that regard?

Umm, on top of those bonuses the Zeus also gets more armor because it's an 80-tonner, and it also has a few extra tons for weapons/a big engine. I think the biggest advantage the Zeus has it's that it's almost the same size as an Orion, yet gets the extra armor and potential room for more weaponry.
Not to mention that the Orions I've built require the stock standard engine to be effective (which clocks in at 64.8kph before speed tweak, 72kph after). If you put any more engine in, you can't deal as much damage and survive. If you put any less engine in, you're too slow. If you put in a XL engine, you're going to die before you can do much do to large side torsos, etc etc.
The Zeus seems to favor a larger engine and more armor since it can still throw out a heavy enough alpha thanks to that extra 5 tons, which thus makes it a more responsive mech and therefore a slightly more flexible asset on the battlefield. This usually leads to more favorable results. Nonetheless, the Orion can just LOL and decimate enemies up close within seconds, all while leaving an Assault slot open for something bigger.

This game is pretty well balanced, so it's a matter of pros and cons. But the Zeus as you can see has a number of advantages over the Orion. They're both venerable mechs either way.

Edited by Pezzer, 22 March 2015 - 07:07 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Telmasa, on 22 March 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

Have you ever *really* run out of 6 tons of ammo before a game has been already decided? I just don't get why that much ammo is necessary (on smurfy I took out the 3 tons of side torso ammo and was able to stick an xl375 in there with the 5 heatsinks while leaving all else alone).

Telmasa, on 22 March 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Different philosophy then; I am *all* about making my LRMs accurate, even if dump-fired.

Me too, I use the Hunchback-4J I ran for deciding ammo.
2 LRM10 with 5 tons, a few times I ran out.
For 2 LRM15, 7-8 tons should do.

Greenjulius, on 22 March 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

The Zeus 6S is garbage. It's the most average mech I've run in a while, and it needs another missile hardpoint or it's going in the trash heap with the grasshoppers.

Since I cannot figure out if the Hoppers are safe to run yet, I have been running T-Bolts using up Premium Time. Once Speed Quirk was activated, the Bolts are doing OK, this actually makes me look less upon the Hoppers because all my builds use STD engines and are slower than Bolts, then add the bigger size.