110 replies to this topic

[cSand]

MerryIguana, on 23 March 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

*Shrug* Ask Konniving. I mean what does he know anyways.

WTH does Koniving have to do with anything?

He's another forum guy, with opinions. Not any kind of authority at all, frankly. Nice guy though.

Good dodge though.

Edited by cSand, 23 March 2015 - 02:32 PM.

[Gyrok]

MerryIguana, on 23 March 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

So what are your feelings on the issue of Twolf stripping back armor to almost nothing, allowing them to have the front armor of a 90 ton assault? With no side effects i might add. Is that QQ? Or "legit dialogue"?



I was speaking of the present on that one.

Edit: changed 100 to 90

Shoot TWs in the back, they are stupid enough to get flanked usually...then they proceed to QQ about IS mechs OP because they got one shot in the back while running 2 armor, or whatever. I usually run 10 across the back of anything smaller than about 85 tons or so. More on the bigger assaults...

I can understand why someone would do that, however, I can understand why someone would not do it too. For every time I think it might be ok to do that, I end up being glad I have that armor on the back a few matches later. To each their own I suppose, however, I do not see a prevailing issue there. I mean, theoretically, an Atlas could run 122 front and 2 rear, is that OP, or stupid? You cannot really say that what you are arguing is legitimately a concern because every 75 ton mech in the game can make the same choice about armor placement.

[Gyrok]

DaZur, on 23 March 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

Actually...

To draw a parallel with MW:O and "balance" all chess pieces would need to use the same rule-set as the queen in the name of being competitive.

That's the true fallacy of "balancing" a game... You can't have perfect harmonious balance when there are so many environmental and mechanical influences. The best one can hope for is parity / equity.

Which ultimately is what PGI is striving for with their quirk passes.

This is pretty much right on...

[CocoaJin]

Sometimes I think the best thing PGI can do is implement a cycle of varying buffs/quirks, specs and attributes of weapons and chassises. Just keep the specs churning one or twice a month. It'll keep us on our toes and the meta on it'd heels. Nothing will persist long enough to illicit any major complaint.

It can all be chalked up to the ebb & flow of advantage and disadvantage of systems dusting a technological race war as technology counters and counter-counters competing systems.

[Joseph Mallan]

IronClaws, on 23 March 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Holy crap, if you "balance" people want balance, go play chess or checkers where each player has the same type and same number of game pieces and the game is purely skill based. MWO would be boring if all we had were identical mechs, only differentiated by weight class (people would still say that the game is unbalanced).

I want my Pawns to move like the Queen, and the King is way to UP Buff them so they are balanced!

This is the CBT Player idea of balance.

[Karl Streiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 March 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

I want my Pawns to move like the Queen, and the King is way to UP Buff them so they are balanced!

This is the CBT Player idea of balance.

No that doesn't work here.
Problem of MWO is - when it would be chess you need 16 guys that want to play the Pawn - but everybody want to play the queen - and only those that organize a complete deck with 8 pawns and a King DC get to play.

[Mcgral18]

MerryIguana, on 23 March 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

How cute. You have no idea what im even talking about.

You regularly run 2 back armor on your orion do ya?

Most mechs tend to run around 6.

Nova is required to run one, since it's as wide as Assault mechs.

[Dagorlad13]

Karl Streiger, on 24 March 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

No that doesn't work here.
Problem of MWO is - when it would be chess you need 16 guys that want to play the Pawn - but everybody want to play the queen - and only those that organize a complete deck with 8 pawns and a King DC get to play.

The tonnage limits are supposed to ensure that there are an adequate number of pawns vs royalty. Anyway, my point was tha in chess, each player starts with an equal number of equally powerful pieces. MWO, would be boring if all of the mechs / weapons were equally powerful and only separated by weight class, then customization would be pointless and there would be nothing to work for in the game.

[Kensaisama]

IronClaws, on 24 March 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

The tonnage limits are supposed to ensure that there are an adequate number of pawns vs royalty. Anyway, my point was tha in chess, each player starts with an equal number of equally powerful pieces. MWO, would be boring if all of the mechs / weapons were equally powerful and only separated by weight class, then customization would be pointless and there would be nothing to work for in the game.

Funny you should mention customization, I believe it is an overlooked factor to the parity issue.

[Gyrok]

Kensaisama, on 24 March 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

Funny you should mention customization, I believe it is an overlooked factor to the parity issue.

This.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Meh, the meta should be: Bring what you want, learn your style, master your style and dominate the enemy.

Not: Laserboatallthethings....or JJ to victory, or 6x PPC Stalker meta.....

[Johnny Z]

IronClaws, on 23 March 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Holy crap, if you "balance" people want balance, go play chess or checkers where each player has the same type and same number of game pieces and the game is purely skill based. MWO would be boring if all we had were identical mechs, only differentiated by weight class (people would still say that the game is unbalanced).

This reply is so lame I almost dont want to bother replying to it, but because its such a common lame arguement i will reply anyway.

Currently in game the Inner Sphere has diversity in mechs. Many different mechs on the field. The Clan faction have 36 storm crows and 12 timber wolves. Clan factions have no diversity in omni mechs.

Forget about that Mechwarrior would be boring if all mechs are the same. It is that way now. For the Clan teams anyway.

Balancing the mechs will give players more options in which mechs they want to or can pilot.

Anyway this arguement that balancing attempts will make mechs the same is so lame I cant even believe some Clan pilots are trying that angle.

I bet some clan players dont want to pilot a cheese wolf or cheese crow all the time. I also bet its a good idea if you easy mode pilots prepare for some nerfs to your easy mode mechs.

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 March 2015 - 06:54 PM.

[luxebo]

Gyrok, on 23 March 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

50% heat reduction on ERPPCs...seriously? That mech was ridiculous...there was no sense in ANY mech having 7.5 heat ERPPCs.

Stating that the bunny hopping Timber is ok... stating that the 90+ point alpha Dire Wolf is ok... stating that the Stormcrow having a bigger alpha with potentially more tanked damage than an Atlas is ok... then screams about 9S. Well you got that nerfed enough... what's next Grid Iron? King Crab?

Oh I know, Grasshopper's size. We need it to be bigger PGI!

Seriously it's totally possible to balance the game. Just that PGI obviously doesn't want to do it. Just ask Russ "Can I has Flea" and he responds "I think it's not necessary". Why can't we have role warfare? PGI could obviously use quirks, now how about they actually use it properly? Add armor to tanky mechs, add speed/torso twist/movement to slower/support mechs, add DPS for glass cannon mechs. Then go in and differentiate here and there, with many differences in how it'll perform.

Yet PGI won't do it. And it looks like you'd rather see the game as is too.

Edited by luxebo, 24 March 2015 - 07:14 PM.

[Gyrok]

Johnny Z, on 24 March 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:

This reply is so lame I almost dont want to bother replying to it, but because its such a common lame arguement i will reply anyway.

Currently in game the Inner Sphere has diversity in mechs. Many different mechs on the field. The Clan faction have 36 storm crows and 12 timber wolves. Clan factions have no diversity in omni mechs.

Forget about that Mechwarrior would be boring if all mechs are the same. It is that way now. For the Clan teams anyway.

Balancing the mechs will give players more options in which mechs they want to or can pilot.

Anyway this arguement that balancing attempts will make mechs the same is so lame I cant even believe some Clan pilots are trying that angle.

I bet some clan players dont want to pilot a cheese wolf or cheese crow all the time. I also bet its a good idea if you easy mode pilots prepare for some nerfs to your easy mode mechs.

You know better than that...in CW against us the other night, you saw TWs, HBR, SCRs, IFRs, MLXs, ADRs. As I recall we ran you over too...

So do not sit there and say no one brings anything else...you do not have to run TW + 3SCR, there are other decks, we get bored of running the same thing, and most of us like HBRs quite a bit...

Edited by Gyrok, 24 March 2015 - 07:21 PM.

[MechaBattler]

That is not going to stop people complaining about perceived or actual imbalances. And that doesn't excuse them going through the efforts of attempting balance.

I am grateful that they make that effort. Instead of those greedy F2P companies that release a game and then assign 2 guys to deliver crappy cash shop content.

[Tremendous Upside]

What we actually have in MWO isn't balance. It's not even close. It's "imperfect balance" - just as Valve has done with Counter Strike and any number of other online games do. You put together a set of rules and mechanics for the weapons and mechs that everyone has access to and then you switch them around periodically. Doing that gets people to spend c-bills and MC - and ideally helps to fight boredom and stagnation. It's not a secret or anything -- and it's what PGI's been doing from the start. By switching around the meta every so often, you create a more dynamic environment for the players. One that encourages them to spend to change builds, buy new mechs, re-buy ones they'd long since sold, etc... Balancing this game from a battletech perspective has never been PGI's goal and it never will be. It wouldn't make sense from a business perspective.

[Johnny Z]

Gyrok, on 24 March 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

You know better than that...in CW against us the other night, you saw TWs, HBR, SCRs, IFRs, MLXs, ADRs. As I recall we ran you over too...

So do not sit there and say no one brings anything else...you do not have to run TW + 3SCR, there are other decks, we get bored of running the same thing, and most of us like HBRs quite a bit...

Just like a villain to gloat after a win. Sore loser sore winner by the looks of it. If it were me I wouldnt brag about using cheesy easy mode for the win.

Some Clan players must want a fair fight.

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 March 2015 - 07:48 PM.

[Gyrok]

Johnny Z, on 24 March 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

Just like a villain to gloat after a win. Sore loser sore winner by the looks of it. If it were me I wouldnt brag about using cheesy easy mode for the win.

Some Clan players must want a fair fight.

Not gloating...pointing out that you see more variety than you claim.

[Willard Phule]

Ozealot, on 24 March 2015 - 08:27 PM, said:

Have you ever seen constant whining about Firestarters from Clanners? Or Clanners giving them titles like "The Holy Fire" or such crap? Just because it's a good light Mech without quirks? Or after them being made even more efficient without a counter on the Clan side? No? Me neither. Rest assured the Cheetah will be another "god" and IS dudes won't stop calling for a nerf despite the fact that this Mech will never have similar quirks. Same with the Cauldron probably.

Sigh.

The ONLY reason anyone ever complains about the FS is the same reason they complain about the SDR. Buggy hitboxes that don't register until you take a leg.

As for Clanners fearing them....No FS can take multiple CSSRM6s.

[Gyrok]

Willard Phule, on 25 March 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

Sigh.

The ONLY reason anyone ever complains about the FS is the same reason they complain about the SDR. Buggy hitboxes that don't register until you take a leg.

As for Clanners fearing them....No FS can take multiple CSSRM6s.

LOL....yes they can...it usually takes 2 volleys of 5xSSRM6s to drop one...sometimes 3 depending upon how bad the "bones" mechanic spreads your volley...