214 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

Yokaiko, on 24 March 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Yeah, I'll be more effective with that AC20, a lot more. I averaged a 62 match score over 13 games with the -4G in dual mlas/AC20 standard engine trim (so 89.9kph). For reference the three games I played in my laser vommit OMG NERF Stormcrow averaged 56.

Its not what you use its how you use it, and you will have a VERY hard time convincing me that LRMs are ever worth it.

People like you seem to be forgetting that the 'minority' asked for a LRM nerf.

PGI granted them the nerf.

Now no one's using a single rack, beause it's not effective. It still contributes damage, but not alot.

Personally i like it for the extra small punch.

Edited by Sarlic, 24 March 2015 - 02:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yokaiko, on 24 March 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

So you are saying a -4J is more effective overall than a -4G? Quit dodging this time.

I'm saying nothing with LRM is "effective" because well, LRM.

And I'm saying yeah, you are wrong. LRMs are not effective in God-Tier Elo matches, where everything is in your face zergrushes. For farming events in solo queue? easy money.

I'm also not dodging anything. You keep pushing your bias and preference off as if it determines the overall effectiveness of a mech. When the only person affected by that, is YOU.

Sarlic, on 24 March 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

People like you seem to be forgetting that the 'minority' asked for a LRM nerf.

PGI granted them the nerf.

Now no one's using a single rack, beause it's not effective. It still contributes damage, but not alot.

Personally i like it for the extra small punch.

my 3 to 1 KDr VND-1AA with it's single LRM15 finds them effective, most times. (Though hiding behinds hills is boring, hence the fun of using them on a 10 kph flanker. Poke. Poke. Poke, .....heheheheheh)

[At Least Three Bears]

That's it, I didn't say anything when you people took our jump jets. I left my wife because she didn't want to have anything to do with a limp excuse of a man, that knows people that can't run this at 60 fps. I didn't look back when knockbacks were taken away, or flamers neutered because we want to pew pew forever. But you degenerates have no shame with your perfidious theoricraftings, hiding behind a forum. It has to be ppc gauss or ac20 srm6 for everything or else you feel insecure about yourselves.

Do you know how hard is it to find a decent flamers mech? Yes, it's very hard. The GI is the only one that can run this and not overheat in an instant. Now what kind of person would want to take that away from the orphans of this world, or the struggling single mothers that can't even afford a father for their babies. And CW seriously, what is it 2013?

There is a word for that kind of person in English : a frikandel or Bono from U2.

Edited by At Least Three Bears, 24 March 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

I'm also not dodging anything. You keep pushing your bias and preference off as if it determines the overall effectiveness of a mech. When the only person affected by that, is YOU.

You are the one that said "balance of the game on the whole" and Meta. I said the -4G is better, and in my hands that is most likely the case.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yokaiko, on 24 March 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

You are the one that said "balance of the game on the whole" and Meta. I said the -4G is better, and in my hands that is most likely the case.

and of course, this Topic was all about what Yokaiko drives better....

[Yokaiko]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

and of course, this Topic was all about what Yokaiko drives better....

No actually, my statement was that LRMs are bad. One that shouldn't be that hard to corroborate.

LRM may be useful if you can't...y'know... aim.

Edited by Yokaiko, 24 March 2015 - 04:41 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

I started playing this game about 4 months ago when the Shadowhawk was still a META mech and I learned alot about protecting your side torso. I then bought the SCrows when they were 1/2 off cbill release, and that was a great step forward.

After quirks I bought the Mastery pack because I loves premium time. Of the SP,P and GI I will say the GI is the better mech, mostly because in many matches especially PUG the game is determined by the time the teams are in range for the SP and P to be effective without a suicide charge. I have also bought the G and the J. The G is by far my better mech for more competitive group Q (260std, ac20, 2medLas). The range and velocity quirks on top of the cooldown are just as important to the ac20 as the cooldown total for the GI guass. I just checked my stats and the G is slightly higher in both wins and KTD.

The GI is really great if I want some solo Q fun or our unit has enough folks who will push the front. I run a 275 xl and drop 1mplas for a medlas to gain a ton of ammo and have enough speed to reposition and twist to protect the hunch. I do not have to stand all the way in the back and just snipe, and it is very rare that I loose the hunch and have the cannon crit the XL. If I do I am usually pretty torn up and probably made other mistakes as well. What the GI has done is make me learn how to brawl with the guass charge up. So sadly this has really only made me better with my clan mechs that mount guass.

I will say that my J model with a head mounted tag and a willingness to stay near the front and get my own targets does feel dirty. If I am against pugs with no ECM, this is the definition of picking the wings off of insects (note with target ret and elited). This is the only mech I regularly run with lrms.

So as far as p2w, I will say as long as we have Hunchie G and J plus Stormcrows (and a few others) the GI can preform with the best at most levels (more OP at lower ELOs), but your cash will not buy an advantage that is still not also an option for MC. Yes some mechs are just better, and the GI is in the cool kids club.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Hmm... haven't taken that close a look at the GI.

With quirks and Gauss modules you could fire every ~1.32 seconds and do full damage out to 726 M. Take a standard 200 engine and you can easily fit over 5 tons of ammo, interesting indeed.

[Yokaiko]

Praetor Knight, on 24 March 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Hmm... haven't taken that close a look at the GI.

With quirks and Gauss modules you could fire every ~1.32 seconds and do full damage out to 726 M. Take a standard 200 engine and you can easily fit over 5 tons of ammo, interesting indeed.

Yeah its a Guass machine gun.

[Ultimax]

Sorry, I disagree here.

Disclosure: I don't own any Hunchbacks.


The GI does one weapon and often needs to run around 4 or 5 tons of ammo.

That is around twenty tons invested into one gun, on a mech likely to be running an XL.


Quirks like the 4G received, such as Velocity & Range, aren't nearly as useful for a Gauss Rifle as they are for an AC 20.




Also, keep in mind that the AC 20s DPS is natively higher (5 vs. 3.16), as it has both a faster overall recycle (4s) with higher damage per volley (20) vs. the Gauss at 4.75s (CD + Charge Up) and a lower damage per volley (15).

I haven't done the math, but this probably closes the gap on their DPS difference.


The 4G will still overall be better with an AC 20, it has significant velocity (+25%) boosting the projectile to a bit over 800m/s, which coupled with the added range (+25%, I think 364m with T5 module) means you can start utilizing that AC 20 at further ranges for more effective damage with less drop off and better accuracy.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 24 March 2015 - 05:28 PM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Ultimatum X, on 24 March 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Sorry, I disagree here.

Disclosure: I don't own any Hunchbacks.


The GI does one weapon and often needs to run around 4 or 5 tons of ammo.

That is around twenty tons invested into one gun, on a mech likely to be running an XL.


Quirks like the 4G received, such as Velocity & Range, aren't nearly as useful for a Gauss Rifle as they are for an AC 20.




Also, keep in mind that the AC 20s DPS is natively higher (5 vs. 3.16), as it has both a faster overall recycle (4s) with higher damage per volley (20) vs. the Gauss at 4.75s (CD + Charge Up) and a lower damage per volley (15).

I haven't done the math, but this probably closes the gap on their DPS difference.


The 4G will still overall be better with an AC 20, it has significant velocity (+25%) boosting the projectile to a bit over 800m/s, which coupled with the added range (+25%, I think 364m with T5 module) means you can start utilizing that AC 20 at further ranges for more effective damage with less drop off and better accuracy.

DPS means jack when comparing a stand off weapon to a brawling weapon. Add time to close to range to your AC/20 equation and it falls apart.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nathan Foxbane, on 24 March 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

DPS means jack when comparing a stand off weapon to a brawling weapon. Add time to close to range to your AC/20 equation and it falls apart.

If the Hunchback was closing across open ground that would matter.....but since there is terrain and stuff, that can help.

[Ultimax]

Nathan Foxbane, on 24 March 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

DPS means jack when comparing a stand off weapon to a brawling weapon. Add time to close to range to your AC/20 equation and it falls apart.

I'm just stating what was normalized.

One is a sniper loadout, the other is the close ranged killer.

It's fine that way.


I think the GI is fine as it is and reduction of quirk unnecessary.

[Aethon]

I see no problem with IS mechs having very powerful quirks that affect 1, maybe two main weapons, or several small ones, and allowing the Clans to be left alone as they are (Stormcrow and Timberwolf aside; I still feel the Timby is slightly too powerful, and that the Stormcrow is way out of line).

For example, the Grid Iron. Make it a beast with its Gauss Rifle; it is ok, it can only mount one. It is the same story with the HBK-4G; it is a wicked 50t AC/20 carrier, but it cannot boat the weapon for which it has the strongest quirks. That is totally ok with me.

What broke this, and caused all the commotion, was the TDR-9S. It was transformed from a front-line multi-purpose battlemech into an IS version of the Hellstar. It had wicked ERPPC quirks, and not only could it mount several of them; it could mount them where Flamers were supposed to go, right next to the cockpit. That kind of broke it.

I really like IS mechs that specialize in a weapon system, but still have base quirks to allow multiple builds, as long as the fancy quirks apply to the main weaponry of the stock build, and are not something that can be boated without a serious drawback.



TL;DR: Remember to change your underwear daily.

[GenghisJr]

Kristov Kerensky, on 24 March 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

I spectated someone in a GI, and I was wondering wtbf was going on, this guy was firing his gauss as fast as he could charge it! I looked at the quirks and realized what was wrong. 50% cd on gauss combined with a gauss cd module = damn near automatic gauss rifle.

IS quirks have seriously gone overboard, especially the weapon quirks, they need to be removed totally in my opinion, and failing that, limited to no more than a 15% total boost to range/cd/heat generation. IS weapons, even in specialized Mechs that the lore/fluff says use certain weapons better, should NOT equal or exceed Clan ranges outs and cds, since that means they'll out DPS their Clan opposites and that's wrong on so many levels.

For this to be a game, both clan and IS need to be equal. Different strengths and weakness's sure but the overall result must give a balanced game. Even with quirks, IS mechs are less powerful than clans, I dont know how much further IS weapon quirks can go so perhaps the next step is to nerf DWF, TBR and SCR down to IS levels.
Ive had the DRG 1N since the beginning and recently bought a GI, they both have high DPS. Neither has the firepower of a an SCR, TBR or DWF so there is still room for either more quirks or clan nerfs.

[Lynx7725]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Naw, he still can be just as good as any other ballistics HBK in PUGLandia, it's just most people don't know how to use and position a GR mech that well in puglandia. But it's hard to do maximum dmg with a Gauss MG if you are not well supported and protected.

Truth. I was playing my Hunch-J and picked up a GI to grind so that I can go into Elite skills. The Gauss quirks are key to that decision, without it, I rather go with a AC20 Hunch. Even with it, if you don't quickly figure out how to put the GI, you die. It requires a very different mindset from other Hunches.

[Michael Abt]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

so you say. I disagree. I guess we run things different. It sure the heck ain't an extra 25% cooldown important.

Truly riddle me this, if you had a choice between the current 37% cooldown on your ac20 with the velocity boost, or having a 67% cooldown, would you still take the velocity? And if you say yes, think we can get Paul to let us try out which is more effective in the test server?

The Gauss doesn't need velocity because it's already at 2000 m/s.

I lost track how many driveby snapshot kills i landed since quirks introduction, so yes, i'd take the current version with velocity boost over higher cooldown only boost.

Maybe you forgot but a few weeks ago i started a thread asking folks to post their AC20 hit rate. I know that my hitrate went up significantly thanks to the velocity boost. Assuming that it did help yours as well i am not worried - faster cooldown won't help you when your aim is off. All you'd do is either overheat faster or run out of ammo faster.

[Ultimax]

Michael Abt, on 25 March 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

I lost track how many driveby snapshot kills i landed since quirks introduction, so yes, i'd take the current version with velocity boost over higher cooldown only boost.

Maybe you forgot but a few weeks ago i started a thread asking folks to post their AC20 hit rate. I know that my hitrate went up significantly thanks to the velocity boost. Assuming that it did help yours as well i am not worried - faster cooldown won't help you when your aim is off. All you'd do is either overheat faster or run out of ammo faster.

Yes velocity is a critical stat for projectiles.

The 4Gs velocity is a bit over 800m/s, not too far off from an AC 10 at 950m/s.

That translates into higher accuracy, better use of ammo and more damage/kill power.

Might have just talked myself into buying a 4G...

Edited by Ultimatum X, 25 March 2015 - 11:44 AM.

[StormSeraph]

As the owner of a GI who does not have access to a Founders 4G: if you want to nerf the quirks on the GI, can you nerf the gauss quirk and not the generic ballistic quirk? I run a boomstick on mine.

[Burktross]

Aethon, on 24 March 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

I see no problem with IS mechs having very powerful quirks that affect 1, maybe two main weapons, or several small ones, and allowing the Clans to be left alone as they are (Stormcrow and Timberwolf aside; I still feel the Timby is slightly too powerful, and that the Stormcrow is way out of line).

For example, the Grid Iron. Make it a beast with its Gauss Rifle; it is ok, it can only mount one. It is the same story with the HBK-4G; it is a wicked 50t AC/20 carrier, but it cannot boat the weapon for which it has the strongest quirks. That is totally ok with me.

What broke this, and caused all the commotion, was the TDR-9S. It was transformed from a front-line multi-purpose battlemech into an IS version of the Hellstar. It had wicked ERPPC quirks, and not only could it mount several of them; it could mount them where Flamers were supposed to go, right next to the cockpit. That kind of broke it.

I really like IS mechs that specialize in a weapon system, but still have base quirks to allow multiple builds, as long as the fancy quirks apply to the main weaponry of the stock build, and are not something that can be boated without a serious drawback.



TL;DR: Remember to change your underwear daily.

qft