77 replies to this topic

[vettie]

Reitrix, on 26 March 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Or .. Perhaps we can have maps that dont have 1 ~ 2 'Mech wide firing lanes ...

Seriously, if you're attempting to come up over a hill/ridge etc to take a shot, its kind of like an hourglass, huge open space leading UP to the threshold, tiny 1 ~ 2 'Mech wide chokepoint that opens out into another huge open area. And its like that on virtually every map.

Saddle on Crimson? 2 abreast at best unless you have JJs, then you get 3.
The hillramps in Alpine? Single file, if you're lucky. Especially on the eastern side trying to get up to the big open hill at the top.
Terra Therma's Pugzapper? 2 'mechs wide, every ingress point.

Hell, Even Viridian Bog is a series of hilltops with corridors between that are roughly 2 'Mechs wide ...

How about some Maps that make it literally impossible to blob up and focus a single chokepoint or two? Most maps have a single point that both teams aim for because it gives a view of half or more of the entire map.

We need better maps ... Then you won't need to cram into a tiny chokepoint and block ally LoS in order to get a shot off.

I totally agree with you on this

HOWEVER, that is not a quick fix. I even doubt that they fix this issue, or if they do, it will be a bit of time (long term) as there are so many other 'fixes' that should be / are being worked.

maybe, just maybe, on any NEW maps that come out for PuG land, they will look a bit more closely at these narrow attack lanes and make corrections PRIOR to the map being released in the wild.

[Rhaythe]

Funkmaster Rick, on 26 March 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

It's not necessarily to teach them a lesson. That's just silly. But once they've put themselves, and you and the rest of your team, into a bad situation, sometimes the only way to dig your team out of that situation involves getting dirty.

Please. Now you're being dramatic. Intentionally killing your teammates is always wrong. You're not "getting your hands dirty for the team". You're being a bad team player by killing the team. Move your mech. You're not a stationary gun turret.

You want to pilot an assault? Fine. But you have the most weapons in the game, so it's your responsibility to use them carefully. Ever handled a live firearm? YOU are always responsible for your own fire control.

[Taemien]

If you want your teammates to play a certain way, don't PUG.

OP, for years now, we've been telling the lights to go up and scout targets for us. Now you're telling them to stop. Who should they listen to?

When you PUG, players play how they want. Not how you want. You have to just deal with what the 11 other players are doing. Shoot them in the back is against the rules. What they are doing is not.

With that said. If you want your lights and mediums to stay behind your assault mech when firing. Feel free to recruit players into your group with that intention. Those of you who support the OP, feel free to put your effort where your mouth is and group with him.

If you all don't have at least that much conviction, I suggest sitting down and staying quiet. Action instead of words.. I bet you all can't pull it off. I'll even do half the work for you all:

DjPush
Huoshini
Funkmaster Rick
Voivode

Get a lance together with your idea and see if it works. I'd be surprised if even 2 of you get in the same group.

[Nightmare1]

I agree with the OP. I get really frustrated when a Locust or something speedy (relative to me) zips up past me, pulls over in front of me, and then slows down or stops. I walk around him and a few minutes later he does the same thing. Those pilots have gotta be the same nitwits who do that to me on the highway in RL too.

Half the time, I'm just trying to thread my way through teammates so that I can get a firing line on an enemy Mech.

[DjPush]

Apnu, on 26 March 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

Sure, how about assaults quit hogging fire lanes and or pushing friendlies out of cover so they can take that spot. Door swings both ways, don't be "that guy"

How about when an assault pushes an enemy position, the other mechs do their job and attack form another angle while the assault has the enemies attention.

[Apnu]

DjPush, on 26 March 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

How about when an assault pushes an enemy position, the other mechs do their job and attack form another angle while the assault has the enemies attention.

I do, its the smart move. The enemy's attention is on the 80+ ton monster, they're not thinking about my 50 ton medium coming in from the flank. But assaults chicken out when they see the enemy and start backing up causing a bottleneck and I can't get out. I'm thinking of the tunnel on Crimson, the ramps on Mining Colony, and the cave on Forest Colony.

Or I come out, do some damage and need to cycle back to cool off and the assaults stand at the breech blocking said tunnel or ramp I need to get out and cool off.

[Kiiyor]

My favourites are the pilots that do it while you are actually shooting. A StormCrow did it to me yesterday and lost a torso, because I was advance zoomed and filling a DireWolf with Dakka. He had the gall to demand an apology.

They get bonus points if they charge in front of you, force you to aim off, before they take some fire, panic, and slam their mechs into reverse and attempt to force their way back through you, before dying without actually firing a shot. It happens so much that I just find it amusing now.

[Deathlike]

Kiiyor, on 26 March 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

My favourites are the pilots that do it while you are actually shooting. A StormCrow did it to me yesterday and lost a torso, because I was advance zoomed and filling a DireWolf with Dakka. He had the gall to demand an apology.

They get bonus points if they charge in front of you, force you to aim off, before they take some fire, panic, and slam their mechs into reverse and attempt to force their way back through you, before dying without actually firing a shot. It happens so much that I just find it amusing now.

Clearly the laser and dakka weren't good enough hints!

Tunnel Vision: There is an exit... just not where you'd expect it to be!

[Novawrecker]

Only one thing worse than people running in front of your mech. It's those that run and immediately stop RIGHT in front of you trumping your movement (or behind you when you're trying to back up from incoming fire).

[Sean von Steinike]

Sadly, a lot of assaults will just back up and practically force lighter mechs to take on the brunt of enemy fire.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Davers, on 26 March 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Assault mech pilots are the most whiny of all the classes. It's all "Don't stand in front of me!" and "Don't stand behind me!". Then they cry "Don't leave me behind!". They are the equivalent of prima donna ADCs in LoL- you spend the whole game babysitting them, hoping that they will actually do something, and when they go down with 100 damage they are all like "This team sux!"

While I understand, we're not *all* like that. It is annoying for some clown to walk or run in front of my Direwolf when I've clearly opened up with all guns (2 x UAC-10 + 3 x UAC-5... MOAR DAKKA!!!) just because they have to get some face time with the enemy. I couldn't care less how many kills I have. I couldn't care less whether or not I survive the battle. I want the team to win. That usually means me emptying my guns in to the enemy mechs. People getting in the way who have at most 10% of my DPS doesn't help me, them or most importantly the team.

[Burktross]

I refuse!
As long as there is a Stalker stalking, a Fatlas being fat, a Dire Wolf dakkaing, or a King Crab Crabbing, I will be there.
I will be there in the locust.
I will have zero back armor.
I will stand infront of your movement.
I will position myself infront of your guns.
And by god....
I WILL GET TEAMKILLED

[Alex Morgaine]

What about landing on top of your assaults :3

[LordNothing]

i know ive tked people who were just far enough out of my fov where i did not know they were in front of my gun ports. especially when im zoomed out and trying to aim. assaults need space.

[Mavairo]

Half the problem is maps that have 2 mech wide fire lanes... (or 1 wide in the case of some mechs... LOOKING AT YOU NOT AWESOME)

At no point did PGI actually use their brains in designing these maps.


The other half of the problem is divvied up between everyone on the friendly fire suffering team.

[Lynx7725]

Mavairo, on 26 March 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Half the problem is maps that have 2 mech wide fire lanes... (or 1 wide in the case of some mechs... LOOKING AT YOU NOT AWESOME)

At no point did PGI actually use their brains in designing these maps.

That's not a problem. It's a design feature. It's deliberate.

A big chunk of warfare, even a simulated and watered down one like MWO, is to make use of terrain. If PGI just gave us flat open plains to shoot in, it'd be a very boring place. The choke points, the lack of LOS, the overall design -- it's all done in a considered approached.

[Mavairo]

Lynx7725, on 26 March 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

That's not a problem. It's a design feature. It's deliberate.

A big chunk of warfare, even a simulated and watered down one like MWO, is to make use of terrain. If PGI just gave us flat open plains to shoot in, it'd be a very boring place. The choke points, the lack of LOS, the overall design -- it's all done in a considered approached.

I'm not saying the maps have to be caustic valley. But there's a reason the deployment zones would be as they are in mwo. Each one should provide ample opportunities to flank the enemy with.

As they are right now. Aside from Terra therma (once you get away from the Pug Zapper at least), there aren't many such opportunities.

There needs to be a reason for faster mechs to exist, and with the map design, there isn't. Not even a little.

[Lynx7725]

Mavairo, on 26 March 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

I'm not saying the maps have to be caustic valley. But there's a reason the deployment zones would be as they are in mwo. Each one should provide ample opportunities to flank the enemy with.

As they are right now. Aside from Terra therma (once you get away from the Pug Zapper at least), there aren't many such opportunities.

There needs to be a reason for faster mechs to exist, and with the map design, there isn't. Not even a little.

A serious question -- are the maps without ample opportunities to flank, or are you not seeing the opportunities to flank?

I run around in my Hunchback a lot nowadays and in most games I work to flank the enemy lines. In every map. a very memorable HPG game had me sitting out on one flank on my lonesome and raining down fire on the enemy while the rest of my team was too off to beat off a centerline attack. In another on River I managed to flank the enemy from the Starport side while the team was holding the line over on the Citadel side.

In Bog, it gets a bit confusing but by extending my team's MLR I often managed to get around the enemy's sides; in Mining, I hadn't had the time on the map, but it looks to be an excellent map for flanking. On Forest, I had a very irate Mechwarrior lead most of an entire team on a flanking shoreline run that resulted in the enemy back end being royally reamed and winning the match in under 4 minutes.

Flanking is a concept that is defined by where the enemy is, not by the map. If you run down one side and run into the enemy and as a result the enemy forms up a line against you there, it's not the map's problem -- it's what happen when two opposing forces run into each other and deploy as best they can fit on the terrain. The maps provide many opportunities and routes, and is designed that way. The difference is whether the Mechwarriors see the opportunities and are able to take advantage of them either as main attack route or flanking runs.

[Virgil Greyson]

[Typhon27]

I do not understand what is going on when, i am working a position, ducking in 'n' out and exchanging fire, you know I'm not moving anywhere. Then suddenly, a guy walks over and plonks himself down right in front of me, like I haven't been there for the last couple of minutes.

Is he trying to shield me from incoming fire?
Did I miss the plaque labeling the spot as his?
Am I cloaked?
What is he thinking?