291 replies to this topic

[ccrider]

Holy crap. That's pretty sweet. You got some talent, man. Just don't let NKVA recommend a barber for you when you get back to the game.

[Scoops Kerensky]

too late, Hardkor and NKVA see pretty much eye to eye ideologically on just about any relevant issue in this game.

[ccrider]

You people are monsters. How many haircuts will Kurita defile before your bloodlust is sated?

BTW, Clan Davion wins another one. We have successfully derailed this QQ thread. Ilkhan Hanse Shatner will be pleased.

[Crockdaddy]

Mystere, on 03 April 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Just today, a mostly PUG group faced <unnamed 9(?)-man IS Unit> while defending on <map I can't remember>. The <unnamed 9(?)-man IS Unit> did their usual spawn camping run and won.

On the next match, my next mostly PUG group faced the same group, this time while defending on Sulfurous Rift. Their first wave did exactly what they did the last time (i.e. set up another spawn camping session), while at the same time boasting to all that the map was so easy to attack. Well, this time we new better. They got bogged down and surrounded on their pretty C2 perch for their next 2 waves and started losing. And just to cut the story short, their last wave was a desperate run to get the last generator ... and failed.

A mostly PUG group won against <unnamed 9(?)-man IS Unit>. So much for Sulfurous Rift being such a bad map that it is so easy to attack.

It is cool to see you guys came together. However this isn't normal. Last weekend I weirdly somehow went 11 and 2 in pug CW drops. I was lucky in that the groups I was with responded to me drop commanding and others reinforcing the drop commanding.

Most spawn camps happen because as Deathlike stated, people get pushed back ... worry about their own score and let their buddies get slaughtered out of the drop ship. You may not win but you don't have to allow a spawn camp to happen. You have to push. If you LRM then you need LOS to be most effective and to spread damage amongst yourselves and your brawl / snipe group. This is a fairly complex First Person Shooter. I'd love to see more pug groups pull it together for better group fights like I saw happen last weekend.

As an aside, I can't wait for the 4v4 battles.

[Crockdaddy]

Barantor, on 04 April 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

Except in a lot of other more popular games than this there are even tournament level of play where a nearly defeated enemy regroups because they have that ability and goes back to stomp.

Are you afraid that if you can't 'finish it' that you will get killed when you think you won?

This is a symptom of why CW isn't popular and just another tick on why MWO as a whole is never taken really seriously as a game and definitely not as any e-sport.

Dude. CW isn't popular because the elite players get bored of smashing everyone so easily and the large groups of lone wolves won't take the time to make a small commitment to grouping up and coordinating and as it has been pointed out ad nauseum it is still BETA.

As for why it isn't widely popular that is a much more complex discussion. This game is fairly hard core when compared to the CoD(s) or Counter Strikes of the world and takes a greater time commitment to learn / master / buy mechs. Not even mentioning how poorly IGP managed this game prior to PGI buying their way from underneath IGP. Anyone whom follows the game has realized improvements have been coming relatively rapid fire once IGP was out of the picture. The issue is ... can PGI recover quickly enough to undo the damage from IGP. I don't know. I know I've invested over 600$ into the game over the last 3 years so I am hopeful.

[Crockdaddy]

Sarevos, on 04 April 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

This game is much akin to rock, paper, scissors. Certain tactics beat others.

Lrms across an open plain beat brawlers their skill has nothing to do with it its just a poor matchup and its neither sides credit or fault. Idc how good you are if they park at the breach and your mechs are set up for close range combat you lose simple fact its luck of the first draw.

The point of the 4 stock system is that you can then counter their tactic with a different strategy if they take you all out in the first wave and you drop in 2 by 2 youll lose no matter what the amount of damage poured on your side is more than you can output by simple math. If you cant understand basic math and if you do not understand tactics/build philosophies countering other tactics/build philosophies then fine whatever.

You know what? Fine, f*** it, you and your particular brand of imbeciles are the reason they're making a 4 man queue and a solo queue for everything. Thanks for shooting everyones queue times through the roof.

Oh its just the bads eh? well they dont pay for dev time on things paying customers are not complaining about and it must be alot if theyre doing something about it. The world works on green son. The majority of people with the money have the say and theyre gonna get what they want anyway so congrats you're just gonna be holding your own shaft in yer hand waiting for a drop.

Instead of us being sensible before it reaches this point, we have to put up with tons of nerfs the quirkening bs mechanics, removal of decent systems. splitting of queues because a small group of people (idiots) like rustling the undergarments of the masses. If we would simply not have our heads up our own behinds and look for an agreeable solution like the others in this thread have attempted most of the community and older units would still be here and intact driving the match quality up.

But no BADS ARE BAD HUR HURR HURR. Now we get to watch the bads money cut off the nose to spite the face. Bravo! Magnificent job! Next up in the roadmap?! PVE! Just remember when it happens you could have stopped this...

I cant even comprehend your thought process. Its impossible to not actually understand how this will end up...

Hey man I am not trying to be harsh on you or call you a bad. There is maybe a very small slice of scenario's where LRMs are an effective tactic within MWO. For group players LRMs are almost entirely a complete utter waste. I am not exaggerating by saying this and I am being nicer than most. Direct fire weapons have ruled this game aside from a few weeks of LRMAeggedon. ECM / Cover and even AMS largely defeat LRMs. It isn't that LRMs totally suck as much as Autocannons/Lasers are just that much more effective. In order to make LRMs really work you would have to up the damage quotient which would unbalance Public solo matches completely.

I have run LRM boats and run them with a spotter team so yes I do know you can get kills with them, but in all but a few select cases your team will lose if the competition is even all around. Again nothing against you but the rock paper scissors analogy doesn't work well. The game right now is mostly a mobile brawl game with a healthy dose of sniping. LRMS are usually just annoying for most.


TL:DR
LURMs suck when compared to almost every other facet of the game when experienced players are involved.

[Novawrecker]

ccrider, on 04 April 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

Also, Hardkor, is your hair alright?

[Deathlike]

Telmasa, on 04 April 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

And I'm sure, the first response you might have is: "well you're just a noob, you don't know anything about CW or the people that play it or how to be good at the game, GTFO".

I will preempt that. First, a picture of my stats:

Now, you tell me how a terrible player 'like myself' who chooses specifically not to abuse superquirks, metabarf, streakboating consumable spam, or spawncamping, can possibly get stats like this?

I have similar stats like that, but I play a crapton more, and whine a whole lot less about it... plus I'm not a Founder.

I play all the crappy mechs, including the Mist Lynx, Ice Ferret, and Lolcust and try to put in the best builds I can (they can be meta-ish builds, but I have used LRMs in Kintaros as well)... I dunno about you, but I certainly don't complain about CW and give up loudly mid-match to prove a point (which, I have had the unfortunate experience of seeing).

[Satan n stuff]

Lily from animove, on 30 March 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

12DG yesterday attacking, they covered totally one of the drop spots , I got deployed in there, death in 3 secs, great concept of distributing your troops in battle that way xD

That moment before the dropship bays open and you see yourself surrounded by red arrows: "awww fawk, Seriously?"

How stupid would that dropship pilot have to be to drop a mech right on top of a whole company worth of hostiles?

[Deathlike]

Satan n stuff, on 05 April 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

How stupid would that dropship pilot have to be to drop a mech right on top of a whole company worth of hostiles?

"They tell me to just drop them here."

There is some space near beta gate on Sulfur to have an alternative drop zone, but... that won't happen until dropzone selection is implemented... if ever.

Edited by Deathlike, 05 April 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Telmasa]

YCSLiesmith, on 04 April 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

by playing mostly garbage players because you've got low ELO

- implying my stats possible to keep with low ELO
- liking your own post
- 1/10, try harder

Mystere, on 04 April 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

OMFG! Someone must have really given you some serious spawn camping butthurt.
Where did I say I use meta whatever?
Where did I say I spam consumables like they grow on trees?
Where did I say I want to segregate the player base?
Where did I say "if you took the 20%" of anything?
Where did I start an epeen contest?
Where did I say "get good or get out"?
Where did you get all of that from:
When all I did was simply state the reason why some people choose to spawn camp and how I myself want to play and RP the game?
You must have me very confused with someone else. That and you sound so seriously butthurt from spawn camping.
Also, by posting your stats, unsolicited at that, it looks to me like you're the one so stuck up with your own ego up your own rear end that you're completely out of touch with reality.
OMFG!

Fine, I will cut YOU - and specifically you - a little slack, you've shown some levels of common sense & reason, even if I think you're still a bit smug & still disagree with your approach to game balance.

The main reason I included your post is that mentality is adopted & shared by people trying to justify the spawn camp as some kind of morally obligated natural conclusion to skill disparity in the game. And if you hadn't guessed by now, I'm hammering down the point that that is wrong.

YCSLiesmith, on 04 April 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

im still laughing at 'if you have to spawncamp to win, you're bad' because it's akin to 'if you have to win 48 to 0 to win, you're bad'
'well if you hadn't utterly destroyed me over and over, making me cry irl and causing me to post on the forums about how playing against you is like playing someone using god mode cheats, i totally would have won' - the hugest scrub alive

You still don't get it, do you?

- If you can win 48 - 0 without having to abuse a kneecapping gimmick such as spawncamping, then great, you've earned the right to say you're good. In my experience, I can count on one hand the number of units who've actually achieved results close to 48 - 0 without abusing the living hell out of multiple gimmicks.

- If you can only possibly get a win only by abusing aforementioned gimmicks, you're no better than any group of imaginary 'terribad solo pug' who all happen to listen to the same guy on a teamspeak channel.

You absolutely fall into the latter category.

Kerc Kasha, on 04 April 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

you know when spawn camping happens it's usually only a single drop point (maybe two, but the focus is usually on one of them) so generally its around 4 pilots at the mercy of the opposing team so it begs the question... what are the other 8 pilots doing?

Usually all that 8 v 12 can possibly do in MW:O: just about nothing.

The only case I could possibly see 8 v 12 successfully pushing & winning, is if the 8-man group had only superquirked zombie mechs and lots of consumable spam, and the 12-man group were a bunch of "non-meta" solo-pug builds who weren't so much as using VOIP with each other - one guy just said "hey let's push this way at the start" so they all went 1 way, and that's all the coordination they have.

Otherwise that 12 man group will win every stinkin' time, unless that 8-man has some kind of unconventional crackshot superhero pilots.

Edited by Telmasa, 05 April 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[YCSLiesmith]

Telmasa, on 05 April 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

- If you can win 48 - 0 without having to abuse a kneecapping gimmick such as spawncamping, then great, you've earned the right to say you're good. In my experience, I can count on one hand the number of units who've actually achieved results close to 48 - 0 without abusing the living hell out of multiple gimmicks.

- If you can only possibly get a win only by abusing aforementioned gimmicks, you're no better than any group of imaginary 'terribad solo pug' who all happen to listen to the same guy on a teamspeak channel.

You absolutely fall into the latter category.

lmao no, because if you get into a situation where you're camping someones spawn without getting pushed off, you are facing enemies that are no threat to you under any circumstances. it's not like there's some choice at the beginning of the map to either go for spawn camping or fight 'normally'. you fight normally, advancing forward at a regular speed, killing enemies as you move, and then find yourself at a spawn. if all 12 of youa re still alive, and you've killed a few of their guys, they start to drop and you kill the drops.

if they were good, they'd either have killed enough of you that spawn camping isn't viable, or would kill you now that you're at the spawn. if you manage to continue spawn camping it means they are either all dead from a complete blowout, or are cowards, or are advancing piecemeal and getting chewed up, or have regrouped, attacked, and been annihilated because they suck.

in any event, there is no skill difference between letting people drop and not shooting them until they're ready and not letting them drop. either way you're determining what happens all match. either way, unless half your team goes AFK, the enemy side is ******.

you keep acting like it takes no skill to spawn camp, or alternately if you just gave the other team a chance they'd beat you sometimes. but this just isn't true. the other team had a perfectly fair chance, managed to put themselves in an untenable position right away, and now lack the skill to recover.

[YCSLiesmith]

Telmasa, on 05 April 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Usually all that 8 v 12 can possibly do in MW:O: just about nothing.

The only case I could possibly see 8 v 12 successfully pushing & winning, is if the 8-man group had only superquirked zombie mechs and lots of consumable spam, and the 12-man group were a bunch of "non-meta" solo-pug builds who weren't so much as using VOIP with each other - one guy just said "hey let's push this way at the start" so they all went 1 way, and that's all the coordination they have.

see dude this is why i assume you're terrible. how did it even get to be 8 vs 12 in the first place? how did the guys getting spawn camped let the 12 push them all the way in without dealing any damage? if they did deal damage and the 12 have some wounded guys, they're in a good position to push them off the spawn. why isnt it working? the only reason that 8 brand new mechs can't beat up 12 mechs that have already been through the wars is if the 8 suck.

[Stoned Prophet]

YCSLiesmith, on 03 April 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

uuuh, we've been beaten. sure. I don't think NKVA has ever been rolled all the way back to the spawn and farmed, though.

you know what, though? if we did, at some point in the past, then let me make it clear: we sucked at this game when that happened. because it only happens to people who suck at this game. Since then we've made an effort to get good, and lo and behold, we dont get spawn camped. maybe you should try it.

Ive fought NKVA many time, and Ive beaten them, and theyve beaten me. Never once have they spawncamped my team nor my team been in a position to spawncamp them.

kamiko kross, on 04 April 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

Simple solution to drop issue methinks, wait for it......

When you have been knocked out in your current mech....
ALLOW PEEPS TO SELECT ONE OF THREE DROP SITES.

Want to lamecamp the opfor giving them zero sporting chance? LOLZ you now have to split it over 3 drop zones...

Why would I give my enemy a sporting chance? This aint sports, bro

Although I support multiple drop sites, but Id rather they be random or dynamic. Players choosing their own can be used for greifing and its own kind of bad play. Now, what do you give the defenders to balance out this advantage?.

Edited by Stoned Prophet, 05 April 2015 - 03:16 PM.

[Mystere]

Stoned Prophet, on 05 April 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Why would I give my enemy a sporting chance? This aint sports, bro

And I think herein lies the problem. Some people play MWO as a "sport". Some, on the other hand, play it as a "war". But because both viewpoints are valid, the former should really not complain if the latter choose not to give their opponents any quarter.

I myself can't wait for the anticipated Solaris mode to come soon enough. That should provide a clear delineation between playing a "sport" and playing "war".

But I should add though, that even in Solaris, there are those who will not be predisposed to give their opponents any quarter either. You have been warned.

Edited by Mystere, 05 April 2015 - 08:21 PM.

[Telmasa]

*headdesk*
It's like I said a few pages back - arguing with self-entitled thugs like YCSLiesSmith is hopeless and pointless. Logic and reason apparently have no effect, especially since both get ignored every time he tries to build an argument.

The only final solution is to fix the game so that cheating, or exploiting gimmicky flaws in the game, can't happen.

[Telmasa]

Mystere, on 05 April 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

And I think herein lies the problem. Some people play MWO as a "sport". Some, one the other hand, play it as a "war". But because both viewpoints are valid, the former should really not complain if the latter choose not to give their opponents any quarter.

I myself can't wait for the anticipated Solaris mode to come soon enough. That should provide a clear delineation between playing a "sport" and playing "war".

But I should add though, that even in Solaris, there are those who will not be predisposed to give their opponents any quarter either. You have been warned.

If in Solaris mode, consumables aren't allowed, quirks have been tamed by the time it's released, and jumpjets fixed both to be more useful & not allow "bunnyhop" abuse, then have at it and bring all you've got.

Playing hard to win doesn't bug me, one-sided gimmicking does.

Edited by Telmasa, 05 April 2015 - 08:21 PM.

[Stoned Prophet]

Telmasa, on 05 April 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

*headdesk*
It's like I said a few pages back - arguing with self-entitled thugs like YCSLiesSmith is hopeless and pointless. Logic and reason apparently have no effect, especially since both get ignored every time he tries to build an argument.

The only final solution is to fix the game so that cheating, or exploiting gimmicky flaws in the game, can't happen.

Actually, really the only issue is you cant seem to understand that other people disagree with you, and your opinion is not the end of the discussion. Long and the short of it you let yourself get spawncamped. To blame someone for attacking you when you let them is the height of foolishness. Please, understand that no matter what you think, you are the one who is failing, not the people who are good enough to push you back to your spawn and wiped you out.

Telmasa, on 05 April 2015 - 08:21 PM, said:

If in Solaris mode, consumables aren't allowed, quirks have been tamed by the time it's released, and jumpjets fixed both to be more useful & not allow "bunnyhop" abuse, then have at it and bring all you've got.

Playing hard to win doesn't bug me, one-sided gimmicking does.

Soooo, people are supposed to play hard right up until the enemy cant handle it? This is such a stupid concept, I cannot understand how you came to think this way, and must assume you want the game to make up for your inability to compete against people who put in more effort and ability than you do.

[nitra]

Its not about honor or not playing "hard" nor is it role playing .

1st. no one cares about honor in this game so well just throw it out the window sad as it may be but gamers in general just tend to be a bunch of honorless ****** who just want easy kills.

2nd. spawn camping is not playing hard . especially in this game with these maps. you did very little to camp the opposing team spawn. took down a wave or two of mechs preceded to spawn sat and focused fired on dropping opponents. with overwhelming fire support.

3rd. roleplaying excuse is laughable , in what way is spawn camping role playing? in what war does the enemy resupply the troops into the same compromised drop zones repeatedly ? so no, your not role playing.

what you are doing is what every spawn camping team, group, or person does in every game that spawn camping occurs in.

its called Kill Farming.

mechwarrior is not the only game that deals with spawn camping many games before it have dealt with it and even some games have guilds who host servers just so they can spawn camp the players unfortunate enough to join that server.

and yes their forums are filled with the same bs trying to justify how their spawn camping is justified because the other team sucks.

well you know what ?

your team sucks just as hard when its in a overwhelming predicament as does any team, what makes the difference is that good teams dont get them selves in those pediments often. unfortunately the more unbalanced a game is the more often a team finds it self in such a crunch.

So what happens here in CW we have teams that happen to perform well wiping out the first or second wave of attack/defending mechs.

eventually depending on how shattered the opposing team is, the majority of the spawn camping team ends up at the spawn points. regardless of the drop point, the range of the CW meta is well with in striking distance of any dropped mechs. so they either become crippled or severely damaged providing little chance against any minor resistance. (also nothing beats getting dropped into a artillery strike)

The camped team continues to spawn in a haphazard fashion aiding to the focus fire farming fest for the spawn campers. the game enforces this strategy as there is no real risk for abandoning the objective . The spawn campers continue their current farming of individuals to pad their kill count.


So to summarize spawn camping is nothing more than an easy way to get free kills.

the game reinforces this because there is no real risk in ignoring the in game objective.(this is a problem but those who defend spawn camping are to blind to see it )

any suggesting that wold force the spawn campers to actually engage in a full on brawl is out right attacked as they would rather sit at spawn and shoots "terribad" players in the back on drop. because they have such elite rear coring skills they need to show it off.


But yeah keep on kill farming you will never see a better game from that action .

but as most of you have already stated you dont want a better game, you just what to enforce the current broken game play so you can continue your traditional farming game play. and brag to one another on how awesome it was when you nailed that locust in the rear ct with a 60pt alpha strike. he was so terribad that he didnt even try to fight your 8 mechs. were so leet !!

Edited by nitra, 05 April 2015 - 11:20 PM.

[YCSLiesmith]

Telmasa, on 05 April 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

*headdesk*
It's like I said a few pages back - arguing with self-entitled thugs like YCSLiesSmith is hopeless and pointless. Logic and reason apparently have no effect, especially since both get ignored every time he tries to build an argument.

The only final solution is to fix the game so that cheating, or exploiting gimmicky flaws in the game, can't happen.

you're the one who is 'self-entitled' because you're whining that the game should be changed so that even though you suck you still can't get ground up. boo hoo look at my stats! are these the stats of a guy who should get spawn camped?? PGI i paid 500 dollars for my golden madcat and i expect to win every game!

nitra, on 05 April 2015 - 11:12 PM, said:

your team sucks just as hard when its in a overwhelming predicament as does any team, what makes the difference is that good teams dont get them selves in those pediments often. unfortunately the more unbalanced a game is the more often a team finds it self in such a crunch.

Yes! Exactly! if i get spawn camped, I deserve it. However I don't, because i have got good. If i play badly, I deserve what I get. Only I can step up my game, I cant cry to the ref that I'm losing 48 nil. This is the law of the jungle.

also again spawn camping is not about showing off, it is about getting out of the game with as many cbills as possible in as little time as possible. There is no need to show off, since no one worth talking about is watching.