455 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

This debate is useless. we all know that in a few months PGI will remove the clans from CW and they are basically fancy lazer colored cosmetically different inner sphere mechs only able to be used in normal public matches.

[Revis Volek]

sdsnowbum, on 30 March 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

I think that in a complete reversal, the Clans are losing planets this weekend because they aren't defending them.

Every time I attacked it was on a Clan held planet, defended by Clan pugs.

I think all the good Clan groups were attacking, and throwing themselves against a massive numbers advantage on the defenders side.

If Clan groups had stayed home to defend they wouldn't have been overwhelmed by numbers and they wouldn't have lost so many planets.

BY the time i logged on this weekend just about every planet I COULD defend was already at 90% or higher.

You HAD the numbers, it doesn't matter how many times one 12 or group defends when 4 on your side are queuing up. Its not that we didn't defend. You would of had ALL ghost drops if we did not defend. But i know for a fact this event is too little to late for most of the organized clan units and such. They have these mechs, have played CW since it was implemented and are just bored of it now. No matter how many people are flushed into it. Some of us are over BETA, i will still play it casually like I did this weekend but i have both the mechs they are offering and the other trinkets didn't concern me so there was no reason to defend against the endless hordes of IS lights and that constant losing battle.

[InRev]

Smoke Jaguar: + 63 planets
Jade Falcon: + 52 planets
Wolf: + 39 Planets
Ghost Bear: + 16 planets

Clans total: + 170 planets.

In 3 and a half months. And this is after accounting for the stunning gains made by the IS this past weekend.

If you really expected to just steamroll to Terra unopposed and without setbacks, then you're utterly delusional. Only Clanners could complain that they aren't winning fast enough or easily enough, especially with a 170 planet gain after only 3 months.

[Revis Volek]

Davers, on 30 March 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

Exactly this. I keep hearing Clan players claiming to win almost all their battles, then asking for Clan buffs and IS nerfs. Personally, I am winning almost all my battles as a Clan pug too. Clan problems are all due to lack of coordination between units and high numbers of IS players that force us to play Counterattack all night.

ahh but this is a gross over generalization, i want the 6 LL stalker toned down a little yes but i also want the TBR and SCR toned down so they stop skewing the stats for the rest of my Clan baddies. Maybe not lump CLANNERS together like that huh?

and what LACK of communication are you speaking of? I dont know a single CLAN UNIT that is legit and dosent use comms. Also Strana Mechty is open to the public and i saw at least 40 different people in the server over the weekend I had never seen before (Lone Jag's, Bears and Falcons) so i dont know where this LACK OF COMMUNICATION is coming from? I know that most of the CSJ units all use Strana as well as Restless Adders and others. I think you are just not in the right channels? I know that some of the IS units have very well known more open chats? Maybe thats what you are experiencing? You can use Strana and tell the guys your drop with to come in lots of pilots do i already.

Or are you speaking of the mixed groups and pugs that were on all weekend? Because i wouldn't expect them all to get on comms with us.....

Edited by DarthRevis, 30 March 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[Deathlike]

DarthRevis, on 30 March 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

ahh but this is a gross over generalization, i want the 6 LL stalker toned down a little yes but i also want the TBR and SCR toned down so they stop skewing the stats for the rest of my Clan baddies. Maybe not lump CLANNERS together like that huh?

and what LACK of communication are you speaking of? I dont know a single CLAN UNIT that is legit and dosent use comms. Also Strana Mechty is open to the public and i saw at least 40 different people in the server over the weekend I had never seen before (Lone Jag's, Bears and Falcons) so i dont know where this LACK OF COMMUNICATION is coming from? I know that most of the CSJ units all use Strana as well as Restless Adders and others. I think you are just not in the right channels?

Or are you speaking of the mixed groups and pugs that were on all weekend? Because i wouldn't expect them all to get on comms with us.....

Not to separate this convo too much, but if we evaluate the 4N's quirks vs the best alternative (usually a Timberwolf), the Timberwolf does a better job when used properly - using its speed to bridge the gaps as the Stalker isn't exactly mobile - and you're only committing 10 tons less than the IS (even before we discuss tonnage disparity, which the IS can benefit from, but I don't use because of the inability to have multiple dropdecks set up).

Also, I had noticed that a smaller number of players were playing from all factions... compared to Friday and Saturday... so the event has completed for some and/or burned out others. I kinda wonder what tonight brings.

[mxlm]

Jakob Knight, on 30 March 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

Finally, does your analysis hold constant over the majority of Inner Sphere mechs when compared to Clan mechs, or is it an exception for one model and less so for the rest of the Inner Sphere mechs such as the Catapult, and Jaegermech? What about the Orion vrs the Timberwolf? The Stormcrow vrs the Shadowhawk? Is the conclusion of Inner Sphere heat management compared to Clan heat management based on the exceptions or the rule?

He's comparing good mechs to good mechs. Quirks mean it's no longer meaningful to talk about Clan v IS weapons in isolation, and it's clear PGI has decided to balance things on a per mech basis rather than to adjust the weapon systems across the board.

I mean, the base numbers on IS ERLLs would lead you to believe they're not so hot at range, but there NS is setting up a firing line at 1400 meters and wrecking all comers.

[Summon3r]

InRev, on 30 March 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

Smoke Jaguar: + 63 planets
Jade Falcon: + 52 planets
Wolf: + 39 Planets
Ghost Bear: + 16 planets

Clans total: + 170 planets.

In 3 and a half months. And this is after accounting for the stunning gains made by the IS this past weekend.

If you really expected to just steamroll to Terra unopposed and without setbacks, then you're utterly delusional. Only Clanners could complain that they aren't winning fast enough or easily enough, especially with a 170 planet gain after only 3 months.

ummm.....

did you seriously just post this as sort of logic here? let me get this straight with your so logic before this weekend those 44 planets that the IS took back clans were up 214 planets correct in 30 months? so roughly 90 days?

IN 3 DAYS IS TOOK 44, thats FOURTY FOUR! so continuing with your logic here 3 days goes into 90 30 times yea?

30 x 44 = do you even want the answer to that? but jsut for the lolz (wait i need a calculator) 1320!!!!! ONE THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED TWENTY ..... lmfao there isnt enough planets in the entire universe to keep the IS train occupied very long.

ok 214 for clasn in 90 days
1320 for IS in 90 days

ROFCOPTER

oops i missed the half month you threw in there lol, so add some more

Edited by Summon3r, 30 March 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[Davers]

DarthRevis, on 30 March 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

ahh but this is a gross over generalization, i want the 6 LL stalker toned down a little yes but i also want the TBR and SCR toned down so they stop skewing the stats for the rest of my Clan baddies. Maybe not lump CLANNERS together like that huh?

and what LACK of communication are you speaking of? I dont know a single CLAN UNIT that is legit and dosent use comms. Also Strana Mechty is open to the public and i saw at least 40 different people in the server over the weekend I had never seen before (Lone Jag's, Bears and Falcons) so i dont know where this LACK OF COMMUNICATION is coming from? I know that most of the CSJ units all use Strana as well as Restless Adders and others. I think you are just not in the right channels?

Or are you speaking of the mixed groups and pugs that were on all weekend? Because i wouldn't expect them all to get on comms with us.....

I haven't been with CSJ yet.

I spent 3 days in the "CJF Hub TS" sitting in the CW section. No one spoke with me, or came in. But some unknown mod did give me CJF tags. I saw multiple players attacking a planet, then stopping for some reason and letting Steiner ghost drop it back to zero while 4 of us just sat in the queue trying to get a group together. After giving up on that, I found lots of CJF players dropping in defence of Wolf. Then they wonder why aren't making any gains.

Clan Wolf doesn't seem to have a central TS.

I am sure the units themselves all have comms. I am referring to cross unit communication (and cross faction communication).

Last time I was on Strana it looked like everyone was in their own unit channels, and not in a general CW section (and it seemed a bit CSJ heavy). So not much use for a Clan pug.

However, Wolf units keep randomly spamming me with unit invites. Maybe I'll take one up on it and see how the Clan 12 mans are doing.

I keep hearing from players how they are always winning (and to be honest, I am too with a 5-1 w/l ratio), so why are all these wins not turning into Planets Taken? The reason is it's not all about just winning battles. It's about winning the right battles and coordination of your faction. That the Clans have done so much without actually learning how CW works says more about Clan balance than any numbers spreadsheet.

[Apnu]

Kissamies, on 28 March 2015 - 03:09 AM, said:

Clantech should be more OP and balanced in other ways.

10v12!

Nightshade24, on 30 March 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

This debate is useless. we all know that in a few months PGI will remove the clans from CW and they are basically fancy lazer colored cosmetically different inner sphere mechs only able to be used in normal public matches.

WTF?

[VFR Pilot]

This debate will always be a circular argument as long as PGI continues to manipulate the balancing through the use of quirks and the faction reward system. Having played CW Beta continually since it's release, never before have the Clans lost so many planets in such a short period of time. We've seen planets switch hands multiple times on multiple fronts... but the loss of this many planets across all Clan fronts over a single weekend? One would have to be very biased not to admit an imbalance... whether it is tech, participation or both. We lab-rats will once again debate balancing when PGI is forced to swing the pendulum the other way adjusting the quirks and faction rewards again in an attempt to keep CW alive. This does nothing but frustrate your player base. For these reasons I did not per-order the Clan Wave 3 package. I would rather see new game modes with new objectives on new maps. I am probably too optimistic...

[AlmightyAeng]

VFR Pilot, on 30 March 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

This debate will always be a circular argument as long as PGI continues to manipulate the balancing through the use of quirks and the faction reward system. Having played CW Beta continually since it's release, never before have the Clans lost so many planets in such a short period of time. We've seen planets switch hands multiple times on multiple fronts... but the loss of this many planets across all Clan fronts over a single weekend? One would have to be very biased not to admit an imbalance... whether it is tech, participation or both. We lab-rats will once again debate balancing when PGI is forced to swing the pendulum the other way adjusting the quirks and faction rewards again in an attempt to keep CW alive. This does nothing but frustrate your player base. For these reasons I did not per-order the Clan Wave 3 package. I would rather see new game modes with new objectives on new maps. I am probably too optimistic...

Participation isn't BALANCE. Seriously. At all. Considerations of "their side has more people than us" doesn't belong in a balance conversation unless EVERYONE is literally on the battlefield side by side.

We aren't. We're in groups of 24.

Though, in fairness, I'd be miffed if the transition of planet-holding was this skewed AND planets were WORTH something. Then I'd be sad and yell at PGI to fix their ****.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 30 March 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[mekabuser]

u all need to change ur faction avatar to a puppy, or a mewling kitten or a crying screaming spoiled child who yells at the nanny.

awful lot of hyperbole and bs emanating from ur corner of the universe.op

perhaps some of that energy can be directed inwards towards ur comrades in arms. some basic lessons in civility would be a good place to start.

[VFR Pilot]

Ghost Badger, on 30 March 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

Participation isn't BALANCE. Seriously. At all. Considerations of "their side has more people than us" doesn't belong in a balance conversation unless EVERYONE is literally on the battlefield side by side.

We aren't. We're in groups of 24.

Though, in fairness, I'd be miffed if the transition of planet-holding was this skewed AND planets were WORTH something. Then I'd be sad and yell at PGI to fix their ****.

I couldn't disagree with you more as my faction has been on both sides.

[AlmightyAeng]

VFR Pilot, on 30 March 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

I couldn't disagree with you more as my faction has been on both sides.

Your faction has been in both factions? I think you've misunderstood me as well as being wrong.

Overwhelming a planet by having more people on it ticks the counter down one ghost-drop at a time, even if both sides are winning the POPULATED games at the same rate.

That doesn't relate to the balance of the mechs in those games at all. It only reflects how PGI set up the score counter for CW.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 30 March 2015 - 12:36 PM.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Gyrok, on 28 March 2015 - 12:02 AM, said:

However, live in your dreamworld with TT bias.

I would actually welcome some TT Bias right now. Instant hit and Damage Lasers, Part Specific Called targets, 'If it fits do it' loadouts sans 'Hardpoints', Mark 1 Eyeball and Manual targeting (aka if you can see it you can force your Mech to do so as well and pass info along to Drop Mates with the push of a button while reticle held over target), By passing systems because you have the ability to completely drain batteries for Jump Engines, Capital to Capital jump lanes (so we can jump from Luthien to Terra after raining partially C (C a in E=MC²) charged asteroids down on planets (Even in Intra-system Space, everything is so vast even Half the Speed of light makes Inter-System voyages take days (that would mean it takes the light of the sun 16 minutes to reach Earth instead of the 8 it does just to give you a referance btw it takes 44 minutes for light to reach Jupiter approximately http://image.gsfc.na.../venus/q89.html [At present space craft speeds it would take at minimum 6 months to reach Mars and a year and a half at its longest and thats a 1 way trip]). But the Superior Clan Technology Im not feeling especially with the 3 large laser ghost heat adjustment and the IS LBX 10 vastly out ranging the Clans LBX 10. "The IS was outclassed and then they got their Tech up to speed to beat the Clans" didnt happen in 3 months it took a few years http://www.sarna.net/wiki/3050 http://www.sarna.net...e_Clan_Invasion and now your dealing with Clanners that recognize that the Inner Sphere is not worthy of Zellbrigen and mis-placed honor. You should all thank PGI profusely for not letting us choose what Planets to attack or we wouldve used the double jump ability of Clan JumpShips to go from a Capital system to Terra, Wipe the United States eastern seaboard out with Kinetic Strikes cutting off the Head of ComStar and its Cache of LostTech (which the clans didnt lose at all) which is what was part of what pulled the Inner Spheres ass outta the fire and condemns the Inner Sphere to continue as before instead of Unitying Humanity ending the Succession Wars and putting humanity back on the road to Exploration and Discovery instead of Military Industrial Complex mindsets.

[Lily from animove]

Ghost Badger, on 30 March 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Um...the Cauldron Born and Ebon Jaguar are the same mech...and it has chicken legs. You seem confused.

whoops, meant the shadowcat as well.

[Revis Volek]

Davers, on 30 March 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

I haven't been with CSJ yet.

I spent 3 days in the "CJF Hub TS" sitting in the CW section. No one spoke with me, or came in. But some unknown mod did give me CJF tags. I saw multiple players attacking a planet, then stopping for some reason and letting Steiner ghost drop it back to zero while 4 of us just sat in the queue trying to get a group together. After giving up on that, I found lots of CJF players dropping in defence of Wolf. Then they wonder why aren't making any gains.

Clan Wolf doesn't seem to have a central TS.

I am sure the units themselves all have comms. I am referring to cross unit communication (and cross faction communication).

Last time I was on Strana it looked like everyone was in their own unit channels, and not in a general CW section (and it seemed a bit CSJ heavy). So not much use for a Clan pug.

However, Wolf units keep randomly spamming me with unit invites. Maybe I'll take one up on it and see how the Clan 12 mans are doing.

I keep hearing from players how they are always winning (and to be honest, I am too with a 5-1 w/l ratio), so why are all these wins not turning into Planets Taken? The reason is it's not all about just winning battles. It's about winning the right battles and coordination of your faction. That the Clans have done so much without actually learning how CW works says more about Clan balance than any numbers spreadsheet.

again, you are over generalizing us greatly. Just because CJF doesnt coordinate well doesnt me clans like CSJ and CW do not. I have been on the wolf channels a few times and throughout most nights people from other units will pop in and ask for help or let us know a planet is being attacked.

Strana is VERY CSJ heavy but that is due to us SA guys going Perm Con with CSJ for the CW Beta. But DERP has recently went Kurita to chase after mechbays and the like. Though you will not get a Clan attack with that team against CSJ or any clan for that matter potentially. But we rep Strana as much as we can, and like i said if you feel you are having a hard time coordinating with Clan PUGs or other units tell them to come find you in Strana, most Clan guys know we are here.

But joining a unit goes a long way into getting into the clan stuff too. i wont bring Lone Jags down to out private channel, thats what the PUBLIC INVASION COORIDORS are for though!

CSJ would be more then happy to have you btw im sure!

[Dino Might]

Just take the dropdeck tonnages we each have now and subtract 20 tons from the max, and 80 tons from the min. That would make me a happy camper and do great things to balance. No 3 crows + timber, no 2 stalkers + 2 firestarters. Problem solved.

[Davers]

DarthRevis, on 30 March 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

again, you are over generalizing us greatly. Just because CJF doesnt coordinate well doesnt me clans like CSJ and CW do not. I have been on the wolf channels a few times and throughout most nights people from other units will pop in and ask for help or let us know a planet is being attacked.

What do you mean by 'Wolf channels'? Are you talking about on SM? It looks like all the larger Wolf units have their own TS. Do you normally coordinate with them? Just curious.

[jeirhart]

CJF is coordinated. Problem is all the older units and leaders are burnt to hell and now the remaining warriors are facing overwhelming numbers. The general feeling is "this does not matter" so now CJF is just looking for good fights where we can get them and not worrying so much about planet totals.

Maybe once the Clans are pushed back to the starting planets PGI will finally realize there is a problem to be addressed.

Edited by jeirhart, 30 March 2015 - 01:55 PM.