558 replies to this topic

[stratagos]

IraqiWalker, on 21 June 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Pretty sure that's not what we're saying. Most of us have been saying, from day 1: Coordinate, or you clearly won't win.

It doesn't matter if it's solo vs. solo, or solo vs. group. The team that coordinates wins. I've seen 12 mans get rolled by complete solo teams. Because someone had their head on their shoulders, and knew what to do, and the other 11, for the most part, followed with the plan.

That may not be what *you're* saying, but others have been pretty explicit in their contempt for pugs

Players will go where they have a good time. Getting rolled in CW in not a good time. Therefore, players who are getting stomped head back to the public queues

Is there a solution for this? Not really - but (not you, but other) people bitching about low population when they've *gone out of their way* to push the casual players out of CW have no one to complain about but themselves.

[Khereg]

stratagos, on 21 June 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

The players in the units made it as clear as they could be: join a unit or we'll stomp/farm you

To be fair, and speaking only for myself, my intent has never been to make a threat, but to encourage other players to adopt the mechs, builds, and tactics that will make them stronger players and put up better fights. I don't want to be roflstomping groups, either. It's dull. Kin3ticX even put up a very comprehensive guide to be successful in CW. Unfortunately, the response I see most often is some combination of, "tl;dr", "don't want to play your way, only my way", or "whatever".

I wish I saw more people trying to learn, b/c if those folks won't try to get better, it means the rest of us have to play worse. That's not realistic, either.

This weekend I spent a lot of time dropping solo into CW and trying to help improve groups of pugs one fight at a time. By and large it worked pretty well. I'm thinking of encouraging some select folks in my unit to do that every so often to try to disseminate more knowledge about how to perform better in CW in the hopes of bringing more people to the mode and getting better fights in the process.

Edited by Khereg, 22 June 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Khereg, on 22 June 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

To be fair, and speaking only for myself, my intent has never been to make a threat, but to encourage other players to adopt the mechs, builds, and tactics that will make them stronger players and put up better fights. I don't want to be roflstomping groups, either. It's dull. Kin3ticX even put up a very comprehensive guide to be successful in CW. Unfortunately, the response I see most often is some combination of, "tl;dr", "don't want to play your way, only my way", or "whatever".

I wish I saw more people trying to learn, b/c if those folks won't try to get better, it means the rest of us have to play worse. That's not realistic, either.

This weekend I spent a lot of time dropping solo into CW and trying to help improve groups of pugs one fight at a time. By and large it worked pretty well. I'm thinking of encouraging some select folks in my unit to do that every so often to try to disseminate more knowledge about how to perform better in CW in the hopes of bringing more people to the mode and getting better fights in the process.

I actually want to get the CW forums amped up and cleaned up. Stickys need to get cleaned up. Can't get them to sticky my guide and PGI has no guide of its own. Meanwhile, tons of players getting 48-12 rekt-o-rama'd and units are leaving. No tutorial months after CW beta launches. Not much forum activity from

the devs.

Need to get a way to direct new play traffic to the CW forum. Sooner rather than later. CW forum can be a much better resource rather than an elaborate soapbox for me to vent my frustration.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 22 June 2015 - 03:34 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

stratagos, on 22 June 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

That may not be what *you're* saying, but others have been pretty explicit in their contempt for pugs

Players will go where they have a good time. Getting rolled in CW in not a good time. Therefore, players who are getting stomped head back to the public queues

Is there a solution for this? Not really - but (not you, but other) people bitching about low population when they've *gone out of their way* to push the casual players out of CW have no one to complain about but themselves.

This is kind of a load of crap.

No one ever wanted the solo population to leave, competent players just wanted them to learn what was effective and coordinate and play with teamwork so they would be more successful. The response was essentially "nope, I want to keep doing my own thing, taking really bad mechs because I like them and ultimately not really trying to win while expecting PGI to 'fix it' so I can win like that." I don't understand what they expect.

Suggesting coordination/communication and good builds is supposed to be helpful. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink i guess.

[Astrocanis]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 June 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

This is kind of a load of crap.

No one ever wanted the solo population to leave, competent players just wanted them to learn what was effective and coordinate and play with teamwork so they would be more successful. The response was essentially "nope, I want to keep doing my own thing, taking really bad mechs because I like them and ultimately not really trying to win while expecting PGI to 'fix it' so I can win like that." I don't understand what they expect.

Suggesting coordination/communication and good builds is supposed to be helpful. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink i guess.

You will most likely never miss me. And your statement that this is "kind of a load of crap" is, well, kind of a load of crap. It doesn't matter much to me any more. I want this game to succeed, but not at the expense of my enjoyment of it. I don't enjoy CW. I won't play CW. There are a lot of "mes" out there.

If you want the game to stick around, something other than "take it or leave it" is required.

I don't get the sense from the CW matches I've played that most people want to "keep doing their own thing, taking...not trying to win while expecting" is anywhere near accurate. I am not looking for a magic autowin button. But what I feel that I have now is a giant autolose button. Because railing at "pugs" that they should ALL group up, develop tactics or even be nice to each other is simply not realistic. About 20% of every drop contains absolute t urds. The other 80% sees a group or set of groups and simply knows the game is over before it starts. And unless and until that changes, CW will lack for players and eventually so will the rest of the game.

You can say it's a player created problem. So be it. But the solution won't work if the playerbase has to come up with it and enforce it. The problem will eventually no longer matter because the pug playerbase won't really exist.

[Jon Gotham]

The thing is Astrocanis Gas is RIGHT. I was pugging CW last night. My last game went like this:

I try to talk and call things out etc. 11 other people utterly ignore me. they mill about, unwilling to talk or try. They filter in one by one and die.The game is a massacre. Every attempt I make to try to get them to function as a team fails, they just blunder about like it's a solo q game. I see this OVER and OVER and OVER again. then some of the people I have seen doing this come on here and whine about unfair premades.
The "problem" is 100% player made. It is ALL down to the players not PGI. The only mistake PGI has made is realising exactly what kind of people their players are and failing to provide a game to cater to that mentality...but they kinda did with the solo Q and look how that turned out....toxic and horrible gameplay.
If CW goes the solo q route it won't be anything different at all, you might as well just put 4 spawns into the regular maps, turn off the buddy lists and disband any units....because what's the point if that is what the "people" want? Endless team solomatch...ugh.

[IraqiWalker]

kamiko kross, on 23 June 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

The thing is Astrocanis Gas is RIGHT. I was pugging CW last night. My last game went like this:

I try to talk and call things out etc. 11 other people utterly ignore me. they mill about, unwilling to talk or try. They filter in one by one and die.The game is a massacre. Every attempt I make to try to get them to function as a team fails, they just blunder about like it's a solo q game. I see this OVER and OVER and OVER again. then some of the people I have seen doing this come on here and whine about unfair premades.
The "problem" is 100% player made. It is ALL down to the players not PGI. The only mistake PGI has made is realising exactly what kind of people their players are and failing to provide a game to cater to that mentality...but they kinda did with the solo Q and look how that turned out....toxic and horrible gameplay.
If CW goes the solo q route it won't be anything different at all, you might as well just put 4 spawns into the regular maps, turn off the buddy lists and disband any units....because what's the point if that is what the "people" want? Endless team solomatch...ugh.

That's the problem we've had from day one with the playerbase.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 23 June 2015 - 09:16 PM.

[Augustus Martelus II]

What i can say is: I miss Mechwarrior Living Legends....those huge maps with objectives all around the map was the answer for a good CW...but RIP MWLL....

[Anjian]

Yesterday was pretty bad. The forces on the planet we attacked virtually collapsed both in numbers and spirit. My last four games went like this.

Ghost drop

Got an enemy team on the last minute after waiting for nearly 10 minutes --- Enemy team got massacred. Before the match, enemy player typed in the chat, forgot he was in an All mode. "What are we going to do? Everytime we enter we are going to get killed." Sure enough they did.

Ghost drop again.

Got an enemy team in the last minute. Massacred again.

Not fun at all. I was looking to get some EXP and recover expenses for putting modules on my Ebons. Decided to go to bed.

Dunno what cause the collapse. Just last week and the weekend, we are constantly running into determined and spirited opposition. The opposing team see all the green and the wings, maybe a number of badges, there is no 12 man premade there, yet they is what they seem to see, then proceed to play like all hope is lost.

Not too long ago we are constantly outnumbered in the planets we attack, sometimes by as much as 3x.

[KinLuu]

Anjian, on 23 June 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

Dunno what cause the collapse.

I tell you what caused the collapse. The summer heat event.

Playing as CJF last week and the week before, was basically a guaranteed win. The IS teams were full of trial Banshees and Victors - obviously new players in terribad mechs. Three or more of those in a team, and the game is basically unwinnable for the IS side. Especially in counterattack. And I would guess you would have see a similar picture on the other clan fronts as well.

This in turn encouraged some more tryhard merc units, to switch to the clan side. Because noone likes unwinnable games.

And et voila, CW became a horror szenario for everyone stuck on the IS side.

[Jumping Gigolo]

@ KinLuu - you were an evil pugsmasher yesterday hehehe

o7

Edited by Jumping Gigolo, 23 June 2015 - 11:35 PM.

[KinLuu]

Jumping Gigolo, on 23 June 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

@ KinLuu - you were an evil pug pugsmasher yesterday hehehe

o7

Happy made me do it! I am innocent, I swear!

Edited by KinLuu, 23 June 2015 - 11:37 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Anjian, on 23 June 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

Dunno what cause the collapse. Just last week and the weekend, we are constantly running into determined and spirited opposition. The opposing team see all the green and the wings, maybe a number of badges, there is no 12 man premade there, yet they is what they seem to see, then proceed to play like all hope is lost.

Not too long ago we are constantly outnumbered in the planets we attack, sometimes by as much as 3x.

A lot of the more serious players can't afford to drop on regular days very often (some of my friends only play MWO on the weekend, and do it quite heavily, because the rest of the week they rarely get the chance). Soon as the weekend ended, players looking to score C-Bills, or their two Mechbays, outnumbered those that aren't.

[KinLuu]

To prove my theory, I played a couple of CW games on the IS side today.

It truly is a horror szenario.

Defending a planet on the IS side is not fun currently. Not only do you run into clan premades all the time, your team also runs stuff like this: http://i.imgur.com/yRjUD4r.jpg

Edited by KinLuu, 24 June 2015 - 12:05 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

KinLuu, on 24 June 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

To prove my theory, I played a couple of CW games on the IS side today.

It truly is a horror szenario.

Defending a planet on the IS side is not fun currently. Not only do you run into clan premades all the time, your team also runs stuff like this: http://i.imgur.com/yRjUD4r.jpg

We keep asking the solo pugs to run the attack queues (Especially the ones that just won't work with the team, at all), but the ones we usually get on the borders are from other factions, and .... it's a problem. It's also the reason for half the 12 man vs. solos whining. It's because they queue up for defense as solos. It doesn't matter if the tech is balanced. Hell, the clans can get nerfed to the ground, they'd still take the planets anyways, because we can't defend fast enough to compensate for the pugs.

EDIT: I just checked out the build you linked. I hope people can start to see what's really wrong with CW. It's the players! Who wastes a 100 ton ECM equipped Atlas DDC like that? This is a solo public queue build.

I don't know who asked for challenges to include CW, but I hope they are regretting their choice by now.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 24 June 2015 - 12:18 AM.

[VorpalAnvil]

Augustus Martelus II, on 23 June 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

What i can say is: I miss Mechwarrior Living Legends....those huge maps with objectives all around the map was the answer for a good CW...but RIP MWLL....

MWLL lives on bro
http://mwomercs.com/...d/page__st__200

Edited by VorpalAnvil, 24 June 2015 - 12:38 AM.

[KinLuu]

IraqiWalker, on 24 June 2015 - 12:16 AM, said:

EDIT: I just checked out the build you linked. I hope people can start to see what's really wrong with CW. It's the players! Who wastes a 100 ton ECM equipped Atlas DDC like that? This is a solo public queue build.

NO!

It is not. It is a **** build everywhere, not only in CW!

[VorpalAnvil]

kamiko kross, on 23 June 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

The thing is Astrocanis Gas is RIGHT. I was pugging CW last night. My last game went like this:

I try to talk and call things out etc. 11 other people utterly ignore me. they mill about, unwilling to talk or try. They filter in one by one and die.The game is a massacre. Every attempt I make to try to get them to function as a team fails, they just blunder about like it's a solo q game. I see this OVER and OVER and OVER again. then some of the people I have seen doing this come on here and whine about unfair premades.
The "problem" is 100% player made. It is ALL down to the players not PGI. The only mistake PGI has made is realising exactly what kind of people their players are and failing to provide a game to cater to that mentality...but they kinda did with the solo Q and look how that turned out....toxic and horrible gameplay.
If CW goes the solo q route it won't be anything different at all, you might as well just put 4 spawns into the regular maps, turn off the buddy lists and disband any units....because what's the point if that is what the "people" want? Endless team solomatch...ugh.

All these rambo pugs just want a "Participation" trophy. It's sad but it's just the nature of many gamers these days. You raise a generation or two of not keeping score at little Timmys' soccer games ( soccer because football is too violent for mommas precious little snowflake ) and this is what you get. CW against good premades like NS or KCOM takes a level of player and team skill that the average MWO player isn't willing to develop. Running LRM XL Atlases in solo que is easy and they feel like a real badass because they racked up 700 damage hiding in the back while their team got waxed. And when they lose the match that Atlas will blame the team cause he "carried". I am a fierce individualist and have shied away from MMO's and online games in general for years with rare exceptions ( DayZ mod, etc. ). After playing MWO for a few months I realized what the solo que was and needed to get out so I joined a team. That I eventually left and went solo. But I learned how to really play from that team and the other groups in our TS server. Excepting the solo que, all other modes in MWO are team based: group que, CW and Tournament play. I still play in that faction on that TS server but as a solo player on my terms. But that doesn't mean I don't know how to be a team member when it is required. It adds to my fun as well as those I drop with. But this is far beyond the reasoning level of anyone who thinks a lrm XL Atlas is a viable and interesting build that helps his side win.

[IraqiWalker]

KinLuu, on 24 June 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

NO!

It is not. It is a **** build everywhere, not only in CW!

Oh I agree. Except it has a slight chance of working in the solo public queue. In CW, that Atlas player is intentionally stabbing himself in the kidneys. Repeatedly.

[Black Ivan]

The Atlas is a pain to see . I will try pugging CW today evening once again as Steiner. I will post my experience.