59 replies to this topic

[Homeless Bill]

So, it's been a while since I've played much Community Warfare, but it's all coming back to me now. There are two huge problems I see - one pertaining to everyone and the other pertaining to those that need the most help: newbies and people trying to break into Community Warfare.

Queue Times

Even with as many people as there were playing this event, the wait times can be pretty bad. We were waiting nearly 30 minutes towards the end of last night, and without the additional event population, I expect it's that bad far earlier on.

The simple solution is an I-don't-give-a-**** queue. I don't want to pick a planet to fight on and look at the queue information and do all that micromanagement. I don't even give a damn what faction I'm fighting. Just let me queue for any available Community Warfare match.

It won't dramatically cut down on wait times, but I'll bet it flushes small groups and solo players through the system a lot faster than right now.

Trial 'Mechs

It's time to revisit this sore spot since there's just no excuse for it any more: trial 'mechs need to be solid, newbie-friendly builds.

Way back in the day, all trial 'mechs were stock, and oh my god it was horrible. But then they started doing Champion 'mechs, and most of the whine subsided since they were functional at the very least.

But now, here I am, fighting wave after wave of ******, stock Clan 'mechs. Could you give players a worse 'mech for Community Warfare than a stock Gargoyle? LBX-5s? SRMs? A small laser? Seriously? It would ******* suck to be forced into running garbage like that just to get a free 'mech this weekend.

And this isn't a Community Warfare-specific problem. Having a stock Nova on trial for regular matches is just begging some newbie to insta-kill himself.

Someone actually built this Champion Banshee and this Champion Stalker, and they're absolute death traps for anyone that doesn't know what they're doing. Both of those builds are penalized by the very system they built to prevent builds like that. Seriously, what the ****? They're not terrible builds in the grand scheme, but they are for the only people that will be using them.

PGI needs to recognize that the community largely has a better understanding of how this game plays and what new players need to succeed. We are better at building 'mechs and playing 'mechs, and you should let us do the heavy lifting in terms of getting useful builds to players.

Please, Tina or someone at PGI: let us build all the Champions, or at the very least, let us build trials. You're doing an immense disservice to your players by forcing them to play trash - whether it's stock Clanner trash or your own, homebrewed trash lite.

And to preempt what I always seem to hear: no, it's not just going to be a bunch of competitive 'mechs built for competitive players. Most high-level players recognize that heat management, convergence, and shielding ability are things new players will have a hard time with. Task us with building 'mechs for new players, and that's what we'll do.

Tap Gman or some group of players or have a contest - whatever. But you simply have to fix this **** before Steam release. You've got new players every day leaving because they get killed rapidly and can't seem to kill things right in front of them. A lot of that is unavoidable because they're playing trash.

TL;DR: Make a don't-care-which-planet Community Warfare queue and let the community make trials and Champions.

[luxebo]

Someday I need to build a trial reorganization for all of the mechs. Same base (no need for a name change), different weapons made for what a new player can have. I already have a trial guide in the sig along with others (Deathlike, etc) that have looked through trials, but it is making new player's life even rougher.

For example RVN-3L(C) really needs full leg armor. And Mist Lynx Prime needs to be removed and replaced with MLX-C.

[Weeny Machine]

I am sorry, I do not want to step on anyone's toes but the complaining about queue times is baffling. You want "pro" matches premade vs premade and tell the puggers to stay out. In other words: the minority of a niche game wants to play among itself. I totally respect that. However, you get what you wish - with all consequences. Oh, and for the record: putting pugs and premades into the same pool hasn't worked well in any game as far as I know
And sure, signing up for one planet or whatever would help...but then the tactical part of the map gets negated and it is already one step closer to regular pug matches. Just saying.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 28 March 2015 - 02:25 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

As an alternative to the pure Lone Wolf experience (which was something PGI initially planned, IIRC), they could do something to shake up the queues for faction loyalists and proper mercs, too:

Allow a player to join a "reinforcement queue" that adds them to all faction-appropriate queues: defense, offense, and clan v IS. They still fight for their faction, but now they don't have to pick the right planet in order to get a match going - the MM will assign them to a planet according to the needs of the service.

As for Trials, yes please. For starters, I suggest that PGI look through their data to find common builds that have decent performance metrics. Boil them down to common denominators (things like armor balance, ammo v heat sinks v extra secondary guns, etc., will all vary from user to user), and then tailor them to be a bit more rookie-friendly. After establishing a base line of new Trial builds based on that, they can start doing official polls, or holding contests, or something to solicit builds specifically designed by the community for the community.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 28 March 2015 - 02:08 PM.

[Jman5]

Yes please for both!

While I sometimes get a little into the whole planet capture thing when it's close, most of the time I just want to play a match with the neat respawn system CW has. Hell, with a little work you could probably even make a smart search function that actively matches teams on more contested planets when possible.

Now that we're starting to get Clan Quirks into the game it's now time to start releasing Champion clan variants. I know there are a lot of well versed clan pilots who could build competent and beginner friendly mechs around the new quirks. All PGI needs to do is ask.

[Deathlike]

Homeless Bill, you won the Internets. Have a cookie!

Now if only PGI would listen to you....

Edited by Deathlike, 28 March 2015 - 04:29 PM.

[Felbombling]

I'd like to see every battle we take part in contribute to our faction standing... PuG or Community Warfare matches. Skew the numbers so that it is ideal to play CW matches, but at least give everyone a sniff at what the rewards are like. Incentivise it so that players are more welcome into the CW fold, because it could be that some players look at CW and think, "That's for twelve man groups only."

[Armorine]

Bump for a fantastic idea

[Stoned Prophet]

Homeless Bill, on 28 March 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

So, it's been a while since I've played much Community Warfare, but it's all coming back to me now. There are two huge problems I see - one pertaining to everyone and the other pertaining to those that need the most help: newbies and people trying to break into Community Warfare.

Queue Times

Even with as many people as there were playing this event, the wait times can be pretty bad. We were waiting nearly 30 minutes towards the end of last night, and without the additional event population, I expect it's that bad far earlier on.

The simple solution is an I-don't-give-a-**** queue. I don't want to pick a planet to fight on and look at the queue information and do all that micromanagement. I don't even give a damn what faction I'm fighting. Just let me queue for any available Community Warfare match.

It won't dramatically cut down on wait times, but I'll bet it flushes small groups and solo players through the system a lot faster than right now.

Trial 'Mechs

It's time to revisit this sore spot since there's just no excuse for it any more: trial 'mechs need to be solid, newbie-friendly builds.

Way back in the day, all trial 'mechs were stock, and oh my god it was horrible. But then they started doing Champion 'mechs, and most of the whine subsided since they were functional at the very least.

But now, here I am, fighting wave after wave of ******, stock Clan 'mechs. Could you give players a worse 'mech for Community Warfare than a stock Gargoyle? LBX-5s? SRMs? A small laser? Seriously? It would ******* suck to be forced into running garbage like that just to get a free 'mech this weekend.

And this isn't a Community Warfare-specific problem. Having a stock Nova on trial for regular matches is just begging some newbie to insta-kill himself.

Someone actually built this Champion Banshee and this Champion Stalker, and they're absolute death traps for anyone that doesn't know what they're doing. Both of those builds are penalized by the very system they built to prevent builds like that. Seriously, what the ****? They're not terrible builds in the grand scheme, but they are for the only people that will be using them.

PGI needs to recognize that the community largely has a better understanding of how this game plays and what new players need to succeed. We are better at building 'mechs and playing 'mechs, and you should let us do the heavy lifting in terms of getting useful builds to players.

Please, Tina or someone at PGI: let us build all the Champions, or at the very least, let us build trials. You're doing an immense disservice to your players by forcing them to play trash - whether it's stock Clanner trash or your own, homebrewed trash lite.

And to preempt what I always seem to hear: no, it's not just going to be a bunch of competitive 'mechs built for competitive players. Most high-level players recognize that heat management, convergence, and shielding ability are things new players will have a hard time with. Task us with building 'mechs for new players, and that's what we'll do.

Tap Gman or some group of players or have a contest - whatever. But you simply have to fix this **** before Steam release. You've got new players every day leaving because they get killed rapidly and can't seem to kill things right in front of them. A lot of that is unavoidable because they're playing trash.

TL;DR: Make a don't-care-which-planet Community Warfare queue and let the community make trials and Champions.

OOOOOOR dont come into CW using Trials, because if you dont have at LEAST 3 mechs mastered, you have NO business being in cw. Wanna just screw around and have fun? Public Que. CW is for people who want to work hard and WIN! Not the delittantes.

[Zoid]

Yeah, I don't get why we have to pick planets when we're basically mercs. Mercs don't care about who controls what, just as long as we get paid.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Nice original post, the Space Vatican approves.

[Homeless Bill]

Stoned Prophet, on 28 March 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

OOOOOOR dont come into CW using Trials, because if you dont have at LEAST 3 mechs mastered, you have NO business being in cw. Wanna just screw around and have fun? Public Que. CW is for people who want to work hard and WIN! Not the delittantes.

Yeah, **** new players. Who needs those ********? Don't show up to end-game content without a workweek of time invested in the game, scrubs. So, let's assume I buy that ridiculous stance for a second...

What about REGULAR matches where having ****** trials is STILL a ******* problem? Should anyone using a trial be destined for a quick and unsatisfying death? Is that your plan for a larger playerbase and a friendlier new player experience?

I've killed so many stock Gargoyles, it's almost disgusting. They need to make this event fun by at least putting the builds on a somewhat even footing. We're still going to kick their asses in an organized unit because we focus fire and because they don't have mastery; we really don't need their lack of real weapons to further shift the scales in our favor.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Homeless Bill, on 28 March 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

We're still going to kick their asses in an organized unit because we focus fire and because they don't have mastery; we really don't need their lack of real weapons to further shift the scales in our favor.

The Space Pope would say the same applies even for just veteran players, we have an advantage in experience, we don't need new players having to use outdated or *bad builds to make them even worse than they usually are.

*(Bad doesn't always mean bad regarding meta, but many of the builds require some knowledge of the game above that of a newbie)

Edited by The True Space Pope, 28 March 2015 - 06:57 PM.

[FupDup]

But Billy, who wouldn't want to drive a trial Raven with 16/32 leg armor?

Edited by FupDup, 28 March 2015 - 06:59 PM.

[White Panther]

It would be really interesting to sit down and talk to the derp who made the trial mechs. Outside of this event its pretty obvious CW is really struggling for numbers so why not make a better new user experience?

You cant just be all like **** noobs and their garbage equipment, right up until CW is gone for not enough players. Im sure we are all looking forward to when steam players get their hands on the trial mechs. So fix the trial mechs right now you dumb fools, seriously get a grip... How many times have people told you to do it already?

[Shredhead]

I'd still say trial mechs should be locked out from CW. It's the supposed end content, so why not let the people A work for it and B gather some experience in the more newb friendly Elo dependent environment? Games should have goals to achieve, and every other game locks content away from new players, that's how it should be in MWO as well.
I have nothing against new players, but CW is the worst environment you can throw them in. Just no.
Regardless of that, trial mechs need another major overhaul, along with the NPE. Players should be able to get a drop deck with owned mechs in a reasonable amount of time, so we're talking around 60 million CBills in ~4 weeks of moderate gaming.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 28 March 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

But Billy, who wouldn't want to drive a trial Raven with 16/32 leg armor?

Or the Kintaro with a CASE'd XL engine?


The completely TT stock Clam mechs aren't all ideal either.

Edited by Mcgral18, 28 March 2015 - 07:49 PM.

[Felbombling]

I'm convinced PGI are listening to a Free 2 Play guru who has told them that pain is a better motivation to spend money than fun. Thus, we have the frustrating Trial Mechs and the lousy new player experience... PGI wants them to pay their way out of pain.

[Impyrium]

The trials certainly need rethinking and rebuilding, that's for sure, but I don't think it's fair to anyone to have newbies going into Community Warfare. A lot of F2P games have match limits before a player can participate in certain game modes. League of Legends, for example, requires you to progress through bot matches before you can even play against other players. World of Warships uses the same system. And that's not even going into the ranking or other things you need to play lots for.

Frankly I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't have a 20 or 30 match requirement on CW. I'm not saying we don't want new players, but for their own benefit as well as other CW players, they're going to want to get used to the game and build up their inventories first.

[Armorine]

The trial mechs absolutely have to be fixed before steam. No and ifs or buts