78 replies to this topic

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

I understand how awesome the TW and crow are, but honestly they are all arounders of doom. They will never be able to lay down constant laser damage like some of the IS mechs can; which is completely fine. They are fast moving mean machines of doom but it still leaves the clan somewhat option-less in regards to suppressive fire with low heat penalty.

To this end I was thinking of the following quirks for a few of our mechs that should be suppressive fire mechs:

Warhawk: PPC/Laser Heat Quirk: Note I did not say range quirk as that would break the system. Give the warhawk something so he can fight the stalker in a ranged suppressive fire war.

Nova: Better heat perks: Make it so he is something of a thunderwub light but with less survivability.

Gargy: Give him so ammo and ac perks so he can function like a dragon might as a mid/long range suppressive dakka mech. The clans could really use an autocannon mech that is as scary as the dragon.

Anyone agree/disagree? Please be nice in your comment.

Edited by Blueduck, 29 March 2015 - 01:43 PM.

[Hootchie]

In before locked.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

NO! You are incompetent if you can't crush in clan laser boats. Use pulses if you want constant fire.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Hootchie, on 29 March 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

In before locked.

K

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 29 March 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

NO! You are incompetent if you can't crush in clan laser boats. Use pulses if you want constant fire.

What? Currently even a tricked out warhawk with 4 large pulse lasers does not come close to competing with the laser boat stalker.

Edited by Blueduck, 29 March 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[Johny Rocket]

Have you played CW, its nothing but clan laser spam? You want to make that worse? Must be a clanner.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 29 March 2015 - 01:40 PM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Tractor Joe, on 29 March 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Have you played CW, its nothing but clan laser spam? You want to make that worse? Must be a clanner.

Eerrm, yes, my picture would indicate clan. That said it would be nice to have a warhawk that would compete with the stalker in suppressive fire war.

[anonymous161]

I've never had any luck with the warhawks myself just cant compete with firepower of a diashi. Wish they would put the lasers back to where they were at before laser nerfs from wave 1

[sycocys]

Yeah I see lots of suppressing laser fire from clan mechs.

The big difference between CW and standard drops in these regards is that almost every standard drop player I've seen seems to think that alpha shot all your lasers every time is somehow the only approach. In CW you find out very quickly that you need to extend your heat a lot further, and learn really fast or die really fast.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Blueduck, on 29 March 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

Eerrm, yes, my picture would indicate clan. That said it would be nice to have a warhawk that would compete with the stalker in suppressive fire war.

The only reason the Wubhawk can't compete is because of bad hitboxes, otherwise 4 C-LPL is the better build.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Darth Bane001, on 29 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

I've never had any luck with the warhawks myself just cant compete with firepower of a diashi. Wish they would put the lasers back to where they were at before laser nerfs from wave 1

That would probably be a bad idea; the clan weapons were unbelieavable in their original unnerfed state. Trust me, you really don't want that; it wouldn't even be fun as nothing could get near the clans.

sycocys, on 29 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Yeah I see lots of suppressing laser fire from clan mechs.

The big difference between CW and standard drops in these regards is that almost every standard drop player I've seen seems to think that alpha shot all your lasers every time is somehow the only approach. In CW you find out very quickly that you need to extend your heat a lot further, and learn really fast or die really fast.

Clans can put down suppressive fire but not like the IS can at mid/long range. They overheat too fast. The clans could really use something like a perked out warhawk so they can continuously trade fire with it at that range so the IS doesn't get a monopoly on the high ground.

[Pariah Devalis]

Tractor Joe, on 29 March 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Have you played CW, its nothing but Stalker, Raven, and Thunderbolt laser spam? You want to make that worse? Must be a Sphereoid.

FIFY.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

WM Quicksilver, on 29 March 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

The only reason the Wubhawk can't compete is because of bad hitboxes, otherwise 4 C-LPL is the better build.

Can't say I agree with that; the stalker is much more efficient in regards to higher mounted weapons, less ghost heat, and more weapons hardpoints.

Warhawk is definitely not as terrible of a mech as people make him out to be, but he definitely doesn't fill his roll of goddly long range support like he is supposed to in my opinion.

TX for the feedback though

Edited by Blueduck, 29 March 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[A Large Infant]

Only the most pigeon-holed one trick ponies of the IS can surpass your all-rounder of doom, in the one area they are trying to compete.

[KraftySOT]

:facepalm:

Since no one else will tell you all...

Suppressive fire doesnt exist here. Lets see, so youre going to chain fire some weapons at a spot im not at, that arent going to recycle for a few seconds, raising your heat and lowering your alpha, and giving me a trajectory estimation to your position.

So youre telling me, youre going to voluntarily put yourself into a position where I know for a fact, my alpha will out damage yours, every time I pop out.

Hrmm.

Thats a good plan you should keep using 'suppressive fire'.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Meeso Thorny, on 29 March 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Only the most pigeon-holed one trick ponies of the IS can surpass your all-rounder of doom, in the one area they are trying to compete.

Maybe you'd like me to introduce you to the mass light rush / ac dragon of doom mechs.

Not saying the IS doesn't have weakpoints that shouldn't be addressed but rather this is a point for the clans that should be looked at.

KraftySOT, on 29 March 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

:facepalm:

Since no one else will tell you all...

Suppressive fire doesnt exist here. Lets see, so youre going to chain fire some weapons at a spot im not at, that arent going to recycle for a few seconds, raising your heat and lowering your alpha, and giving me a trajectory estimation to your position.

So youre telling me, youre going to voluntarily put yourself into a position where I know for a fact, my alpha will out damage yours, every time I pop out.

Hrmm.

Thats a good plan you should keep using 'suppressive fire'.

:Kick in the Balls:

Yes, lots of lasers firing to push someone off a ridge with low change of all the alphas connecting is suppressive fire. On the cover maps with lots of pop-tarting heat control is king.

That does exist in this game and is very common in the attrition match ups in CW.

Edited by Blueduck, 29 March 2015 - 01:55 PM.

[Johny Rocket]

Blueduck, on 29 March 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

Clans can put down suppressive fire but not like the IS can at mid/long range. They overheat too fast. The clans could really use something like a perked out warhawk so they can continuously trade fire with it at that range so the IS doesn't get a monopoly on the high ground.

Yeah I'll give you that point, I should also come clean my std drop lineups includes a Master Tier 6LL STK 4N with a STD 300 and a Elite tier KTO 20 3 LL 2 lrm5s and ams 2 tons of lrm and 1 ams.
I have a vested interest in you not competing with that.

[Chagatay]

We have one, it is the Warhawk and it requires no laser quirks (but crowning it king of ERPPC with ultra quirks would be ok). The 4xcLPL lays down an impressive amount of wubbery doom on any CW map and possesses excellent mobility and cooling. Sure, it needs to kinda be exposed to enemy fire and it a huge frikken target but keep that distance ~700m and lay down the pain train.

Edited by Chagatay, 29 March 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Blueduck, on 29 March 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Can't say I agree with that; the stalker is much more efficient in regards to higher mounted weapons, less ghost heat, and more weapons hardpoints.

Weapon hardpoints and ghost heat don't matter, the only advantage the Warhawk wishes it had is the high arm mounts and hitboxes.

2 C-LPLs are about par with 3 I-LL after you factor in the 4N's quirks.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Tractor Joe, on 29 March 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

Yeah I'll give you that point, I should also come clean my std drop lineups includes a Master Tier 6LL STK 4N with a STD 300 and a Elite tier KTO 20 3 LL 2 lrm5s and ams 2 tons of lrm and 1 ams.
I have a vested interest in you not competing with that.

Haha, fair enough then.

Chagatay, on 29 March 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

We have one, it is the Warhawk and it requires no laser quirks (but crowning it king of ERPPC with ultra quirks would be ok). The 4xcLPL lays down an impressive amount of wubbery doom on any CW map and possesses excellent mobility and cooling. Sure, it needs to kinda be exposed to enemy fire and it a huge frikken target but keep that distance ~700m and lay down the pain train.

Problem relates back to the ghost heat for the stalker compared to the warhawk. Likewise the stalker perks are another big bonus.

[KraftySOT]

Blueduck, on 29 March 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

:Kick in the Balls:

Yes, lots of lasers firing to push someone off a ridge with low change of all the alphas connecting is suppressive fire. On the cover maps with lots of pop-tarting heat control is king.

That does exist in this game and is very common in the attrition match ups in CW.

Thats terrible. Why on earth would you do that.

Shoot the center of the red boxes, those gundams are what you want to hit with yer lazors. Theres no reason you ever want to convince a noob to do anything but run into the open, and bittervets know better, so will just run over you, in the open, because you done fired off half your weapons already in a game where 6 seconds is the usual TTK.

I mean if youre just a bad shot, thats called being a bad shot, not suppressive fire.

That functions on a precedent that the person being suppressed, cares about dying. Its a video game brah. Ever watch a 12 man? Ever see them care about taking hits? Nope. Teasing ridge lines is a noob move, and suppressing them a noob move.

Edited by KraftySOT, 29 March 2015 - 02:01 PM.