42 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

kamiko kross, on 02 April 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

It didn't work before, because of the nature of the people that didn't like it.  What is defined as casual in MWO is about as UBER casual as it gets.
Like others have said I've played other games where small groups have been in pug queues with next to 0 whining-I don't really feel it's all down to population. MWO is a unique beast,I've never known a pug/soloplayerbase to be so sensitive to facing more co ordinated opposition. It does not seem to be an issue in WT or WoT so I wonder why it's such an issue here?
( I mean, that is a SERIOUS question)
Though I must say, I'm not finding the same as you in the group queue. Lately it plays exactly the same as solo queue does. 0 communication outside of your group, random solos running around doing random things and extreme levels of derp with very frequent stomps. If I drop with say 1 or 2 guys only, it plays almost IDENTICAL to solo queue. the only difference is you MIGHT get an extra set of guns shooting at you when you pull something, maybe.

If I want different play, I have to go to CW.

Have you ever played WoW in earlier times? At the beginning when battlegrounds were introduced and premades came up the complaints were the same. And to some extend the complaints were justified because the premades absolutely slaughtered the pugs.

See it that way...some people want to play games competetively and want a kind of club and accept certain obligations which come with it
some other people play the game to relax and casually and thus want to log in and off whenever they want and want to play mechs they like - not necessarily the meta. Some of them also like the organized chaos of pugging and to get to know new people (yeah, sometimes also in a negative way, unfortunately).

Edited by Bush Hopper, 02 April 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[Votanin FleshRender]

I have a very similar problem. Good friend and I drop and get roflstomped in the group Q on a regular basis, and at this point I'm having a hard time getting him to log on anymore.


I understand having Heim and Adiviou (sp? sorry) dropping into the solo group as a 2 man would be unfair, but surely there's a way to code it, that only 2 mans UNDER A CETAIN ELO level were allowed to drop in the solo Q? Then, as the newer player(s) got better, and their elo rose, they would automatically be moved into the group Q. Then, if you have a great player coaching someone new, they still get dropped into the group Q, but when an averageish player like me is dropping with someone new, we don't have to drive the new player away, which is what is currently occurring on a fairly regular basis.

There is no way to ever know this, but how much business has PGI driven away from this?

[Screech]

At some point they are making a 4x4 mode which will cater to small groups. You just have to wait.

[Almond Brown]

Votanin FleshRender, on 02 April 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

I have a very similar problem. Good friend and I drop and get roflstomped in the group Q on a regular basis, and at this point I'm having a hard time getting him to log on anymore.

I understand having Heim and Adiviou (sp? sorry) dropping into the solo group as a 2 man would be unfair, but surely there's a way to code it, that only 2 mans UNDER A CETAIN ELO level were allowed to drop in the solo Q? Then, as the newer player(s) got better, and their elo rose, they would automatically be moved into the group Q. Then, if you have a great player coaching someone new, they still get dropped into the group Q, but when an averageish player like me is dropping with someone new, we don't have to drive the new player away, which is what is currently occurring on a fairly regular basis.

There is no way to ever know this, but how much business has PGI driven away from this?

Notable problems immediately surface.

1) Both Teams need to have a 2-man. What happens when there is a time you and your friend are playing and no other 2-mans are about, YOU CANNOT PLAY until another 2-man (2-man Team = 1vet and 1new) show up. Some would say don't worry about that, the odds would be miniscule. All it would take is 1 instance and we would be back in here hearing about it and how it sucks.

2) PGI allows 2 man (with the vet new requirement enforced) within hours the 3-man Teams would show up wanting in and not allowing them simply makes them the newest "PGI slighted us" group. The backlash would be absolutely unbelievable as we know how the "apparent" slighted react around here.

So in reality, you must blame the 3-mans, as to why PGI cannot grant the 2-man Team entrance rights into the current Pug queue and simply do was as noted above.

Wait for the 4x4 man queue and hope you find 2 more friends, assuming your 1st buddy returns.

Edited by Almond Brown, 02 April 2015 - 08:25 AM.

[Elkarlo]

Another Solution.

PGI did already this 2012:
Limit Group Drops to 4.

In the early Days we had 8 man Drops and they crushed everybody so PGI limited the Drop Size to 4.

Atm a 8 Man Groups wins with about 75-90%.

Same Reason why they had been limited to 4 man in the 8x8 Days.
So lower the Group size.
And when they want to play in big Groups go into Community Warfare or Turnaments !


Btw this is the same Reason why WoT limits the Group Size.
For better Balancing in Random Games.

Or Better:
When a Group Size is over 8 Players forgett Elo and wait till another Group of 7-9 Players
Shows Up and match them against each other. A 10 Man group will have to fight against a 9-10 Player Group.

But the Problem are the Big Groups of 9-10 Players fighting against 4-5 Premades of Size 2-4.
They win on default and the 2 Man teams are wasted out there, for the Big Player Groups.

The Big Player Groups have so much to play ( Tournament, Community Warfare etc)
solely for them good Playable. Forcing them to fight each other won't be unfair.
Atm they have 70% of their playtime one sided Battle wins. Thats not challenging and no training.
Pitching them on default against each other. Would be Fair. And so much more Rewarding for them when they win.

Edited by Elkarlo, 02 April 2015 - 09:34 AM.

[Votanin FleshRender]

How is 4x4 going to help? Fewer players on a team exaggerate the difference in skill levels... won't change anything, we'd still be getting roflstomped regularly. Games will just be over in 2 minutes instead of the 4 minutes.

Yeah, I know both teams would have to a 2 man. Hopefully with the steam release there will be enough of a population to support it.

And saying we can't do it because someone else will complain...well, there will always be complaints. If they do nothing, people will complain too. You have to ask, what makes the new player experience better? Because right now you have to be stubborn or a masochist to want to start playing this game.

[Elkarlo]

Dead Right VoTanin,

Your last Sentence Nail it.

I have a little Tale to tell.

Navyfield EU.
Navyfield is a Game like Mechwarrior, hard Math to Master to be realy good,
and a long Grind on your different Classes. Navyfield EU was launched and it had it's New Gamer
experience well balanced. It was fine.In no Time it had to one Server Crowded and it has to have
4 Different Servers at their Peak. With their Fleets Teamplay etc. At some Time Players from the
US Servers with their big Ships were importet. They had some connections to the EU Manager.
( I know most of the Messy Parts of it, thanks to some good Connections)
Navyfield had some Gamemodes, one was the Great Battle. Compareable to our Pugging.
Everybody is free to shoot. And when a Clan joines with all their Ships they would be splittet on both sides.

Most games were Great Battles and their were good simple fun. And everybody could play it.
Problem was that the Black rooms gave a little more XP, but there the Players could choose were to fight...
Very good for the high Experience Clans, to force Level their Ships up high.

With their Connections and all they had the drive to reduce the XP in GB, so it was simply
not worth fighting and you couldn't Level there. So the fun died for the Casual Players...
The Servers had been reduced to 2 in about 6 Month. WoT grew Popular among the old US Players
and they left Navyfield EU... and very soon a Solid founded Game Server with good Income and
enough Money and Players to expand was dead.

Because the Elite Players said what was good good for them.
But Elite Player will always leave the Game.
A Game must be attractive for new Players, they bring in fresh Money.

The Old Navyfield Players didn't need Premium Time anymore, the didn't need Sailor
boosts or Premium Ships. But the Server Managers heard on them, and so the
Navyfield Franchise in EU died. Not out of interest but because the Great Battle
the most fun part of the Game for new Players was ruined.

PGI please don't make the same Mistake, you are at the verge of it doing it.
It will ruin your Company.

[Almond Brown]

Votanin FleshRender, on 02 April 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

How is 4x4 going to help? Fewer players on a team exaggerate the difference in skill levels... won't change anything, we'd still be getting roflstomped regularly. Games will just be over in 2 minutes instead of the 4 minutes.

Yeah, I know both teams would have to a 2 man. Hopefully with the steam release there will be enough of a population to support it.

And saying we can't do it because someone else will complain...well, there will always be complaints. If they do nothing, people will complain too. You have to ask, what makes the new player experience better? Because right now you have to be stubborn or a masochist to want to start playing this game.

I think you misunderstood the premise. The 4x4 would be a separate queue for 2 Teams of 4 Players each to fight. They are not allowing 4's into PUG with a 2-man min requirement. Then we hope those fights will have some value in the CW arena thus a 4 man can help the Faction based Team when the 8-12 man's are not available to deal with the full 12 man enemy drops.

That, or it is I that misunderstood.

Edited by Almond Brown, 02 April 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[Stoned Prophet]

gbalanced, on 01 April 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

I'm a long time player of Mechwarrior games and love what they've done with MWO thus far. I have a request that I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for or be told to just "git gud nub." I used to enjoy playing with one of my good friends, but now it's all but unplayable. When the change went in effect to force 2-man groups to be in the group queue, we regularly go into much more coordinated groups of 8 or more. The casual nature of playing is now gone unless you play solo and this saddens me greatly. I understand the need of placing premade groups against other premades, but I ask you if one 2 man group is enough to really give one team an unfair advantage. I propose that you leave 2, and even 3-man groups, to the solo queue because there's a lot of us who don't play competitively, buy consumables every game, stick to what's strong in the meta, or shoot/coordinate with large groups on an excellent level that requires dedication to just this specific game. There's too often a landslide in one direction on the group queue and that gets to be demoralizing pretty quick. Games are meant to be fun, otherwise your shouldn't play them. This change has greatly taken out the joy and laughter and turned the game into a serious affair for those of us that don't have an extensive amount of time to commit to this game.

No, because people will abuse that, pug stomp, pugs will complain (rightfully so in this case).
I understand your intention, and at its heart the idea is good, but its too open to abuse.

[Almond Brown]

Stoned Prophet, on 02 April 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

No, because people will abuse that, pug stomp, pugs will complain (rightfully so in this case).
I understand your intention, and at its heart the idea is good, but its too open to abuse.

And that is the reason why the Solo queue is as it is. Leave the PUG queue as is, add the 4x4 and see what happens. If that seems to work, then add a 2x2 queue. It might be great fun fighting just 2x2 and add weight based restrictions.

Example. 2x2 = 1 Light and 1 Medium Mech, 10 minutes Match timer. Only Conquest and Assault modes with just Small and (maybe some) Medium size Maps allowed in the rotation.

Example. 4x4 = 1/1/1/1, 10-15 minutes Match timer. All Modes with just Medium and Large size Maps allowed in the rotation.

[Votanin FleshRender]

I'm trying to find a way by which a 2 man group with a new player can enjoy learning without getting annihilated 80% of the time.

I think 4x4 makes that worse, not better, since smaller teams acerbate the differences in skill levels...maybe I'm misunderstanding your point?

@Stoned Prophet

I don't see how a low Elo 2 man can abuse the solo Q... Granted, good players can make alt accounts to troll I guess, but maybe I'm an optimist, cause I don't see that happening enough to be a large problem.

Edit- let me emphasize my point again. ONLY LOWER ELO 2 mans would be allowed into the solo Q, is my idea.

Edited by Votanin FleshRender, 02 April 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Screech]

Votanin FleshRender, on 02 April 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

How is 4x4 going to help? Fewer players on a team exaggerate the difference in skill levels... won't change anything, we'd still be getting roflstomped regularly. Games will just be over in 2 minutes instead of the 4 minutes.

4x4 will help those small groups that say the group queue is too hard because they always have to face a larger group and it is unfair. It will not help small groups that are looking for an advantage by playing in the solo queue. You would be better served by trying to get Elo implemented in 4x4 CW.

[Votanin FleshRender]

I wouldn't say we often face larger groups. Sometimes, but that isn't the problem.

The level of play in the group Q is significantly higher, though... I don't think anyone would argue that. And taking a new, bad, player into that, in addition to the tutor (me) NOT paying as close attention to the enemy as I would or should be because I'm watching my friend, watching what he's doing, trying to coach him means that my team s effectively down 2 players. That is a recipe for a stomp. In the solo Q, I don't think it would hurt our team nearly as much.

[Roadkill]

gbalanced, on 01 April 2015 - 10:59 PM, said:

I'm all for people arguing with my suggestion, Roadkill. In fact, I invite debate. I do ask that, if you think it's a bad idea, you offer up your own instead of simply shooting things down.

Ironically, the current situation was the solution to fix the situation that you're asking for. I don't have (or want) an "alternative" because what we have now is, in my opinion, the best solution.

Quote

You said it didn't work before, but didn't you just say it was for groups of 4 or more? I really want to play this game and the super competitive group queue kills the joy for me and my friends. We all know the player base is really small for this game and that's probably the large part of the problem, but that means we need to do something to fix it.

What you seem to be failing to realize is that those same super competitive groups will migrate to the solo queue if you let them. Because that's where they played before, and they liked being able to stomp newbies all the time.

You and your newbie buddies aren't the problem, but there's no way to restrict things so that only "bad" or "casual" players have group access to the solo queue. No matter what you do, good players will find a way to form groups and take advantage of your setup so that they can wreck face in the solo queue.

The only possible solution I can think of would be to have 3 queues - solo, small groups (2-4 players), and large groups. But that further fractures the already too-small player base, so I doubt it's a viable solution.

Quote

If you scare off the majority of new players because of the incredible difficulty spike from playing with a friend, then you're doing something wrong.

That was one of the arguments used to get the solo queue implemented in the first place. "New players are being scared off because groups of good players are farming the small group queue!"

What we had before was much worse than what we have now, and what you're asking for is to go back to what we had before.

[Deathlike]

Why couldn't we reimplement 8v8 using 2-mans and 3-mans?

Instead of funneling them all the time to the group queue, just group them together as best you can (Elo and 3-3-3-3 system) as the number of 9-mans or 10-mans aren't usually the norm.

That's the only reasonable compromise that I can think of that doesn't blow things up altogether.

Ideally, the 2-mans or 3-mans that accompany the 9-mans and 10-mans would have high Elo, that would offset some of the problems of a new-player skewed small group.

[iLXeNk]

Just bring back 2-4 man small queue.

Get rid of drops bigger than 4 man. If they want that let them go to CW where they're supposed to be anyways.

Solo queue can continue to exist as is.

It's that easy. Anyone that wants to complain about 6-10 man queues should cry about it in CW where they should be anyways.

CW should be where the big groups are bound and regular queue should be where the casuals play while they drink beer and unwind. But people that for whatever reason don't want to do CW and still want to be in big drops maybe make a 12 drop that only goes against other 12 drops.

This isn't about fracturing the small community its about trying to prevent the community from shrinking further. The only way to win (get the community to grow) is to make the game easier (not getting pub stomped the majority of the time) and catered to casuals. You put in Ranked Play or whatever for the people that want to show how big their epeen is.

The deal is if the game is smashing new players and causing them to not come back then the game is doing something wrong. MWO isn't the easiest game to get into in the first place before the PvP aspect even begins. If that player now is going into the PvP realm with a buddy only to get roflstomped over and over again why would this person even want to keep playing? I know this game isn't for everyone and I don't think it should be for everyone but it should definitely be easier to break into.

tl;dr
Keep Solo queue the way it is
Change group match making to 2-4 man drops only
Regular queue gets 12v12 specific match making (Can only queue as a group of 12)
Keep 2-12 drops on CW and leave it over there for serious play.

[Deathlike]

iLXeNk, on 02 April 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Just bring back 2-4 man small queue.

Get rid of drops bigger than 4 man. If they want that let them go to CW where they're supposed to be anyways.

Solo queue can continue to exist as is.

It's that easy. Anyone that wants to complain about 6-10 man queues should cry about it in CW where they should be anyways.

CW should be where the big groups are bound and regular queue should be where the casuals play while they drink beer and unwind. But people that for whatever reason don't want to do CW and still want to be in big drops maybe make a 12 drop that only goes against other 12 drops.

This isn't about fracturing the small community its about trying to prevent the community from shrinking further. The only way to win (get the community to grow) is to make the game easier (not getting pub stomped the majority of the time) and catered to casuals. You put in Ranked Play or whatever for the people that want to show how big their epeen is.

The deal is if the game is smashing new players and causing them to not come back then the game is doing something wrong. MWO isn't the easiest game to get into in the first place before the PvP aspect even begins. If that player now is going into the PvP realm with a buddy only to get roflstomped over and over again why would this person even want to keep playing? I know this game isn't for everyone and I don't think it should be for everyone but it should definitely be easier to break into.

tl;dr
Keep Solo queue the way it is
Change group match making to 2-4 man drops only
Regular queue gets 12v12 specific match making (Can only queue as a group of 12)
Keep 2-12 drops on CW and leave it over there for serious play.

No, that's not happening EVER.

Having 4-mans max was a real dealbreaker for MANY groups for the group queues... syncdropping was attempted because of it, but it was a PITA even trying to put together 12-man teams.

In essence... this would fracture the playerbase significantly.

For those people that weren't a fan of CW before.. will get even more disgruntled with such a change.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 April 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[Elkarlo]

Deathlike, on 02 April 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

No, that's not happening EVER.

Having 4-mans max was a real dealbreaker for MANY groups for the group queues... syncdropping was attempted because of it, but it was a PITA even trying to put together 12-man teams.

In essence... this would fracture the playerbase significantly.

For those people that weren't a fan of CW before.. will get even more disgruntled with such a change.

But other Games work perfectly with smaller Groups.

And bigger Groups have _now_ Faction Ware Fare

The Problem is why nobody likes Community Warefare:
there are the Big Groups which stomps them regularly.

When we exclude Big Groups from the normal Pugging Lists,
then they will be even more forced into Community Warfare.

But you should face it: Pugging is the Bread and Butter Gaming.
There you can have your first Experience, you gain your Experience Points there, new Players
gain their first Group Play and Gaming experience there.

We have the Choice to make the Experience for the already farmed Players better,
or for the Players which don't play MWO so serious.

The Community Warfare Module is a Luxury, the Pugging gets new Players into the Game.
Atm the Pugging experience is very bad for small groups. Especially thanks to the Big Teams.

This has to Change, there are two ways:
1) Putting 2 Man Teams into both Queue's and putting equal 2 man Teams on each side.
2) Reducing Team Size in Pugging Games to 4
3) Third leave it this way and there will be less and less Non-Clan Players around,
making the weight of a leaving player higher, and the Community will shrink into nonexistenz.
No more fresh Money income, more and more Moneymilking Mechs and skins etc... PGI goes Bankrcupt, MWO dies.

ATM the solo Experience is somewhat bareable, the small Team Experience is horrible.
In 2013 it was far better untill Elo was introduced, then the 12 Player mode made i better again, now with the Big Teams it is horrible again.

Look at your Signature Deathlike... you don't have much left todo in this Game, you will be bored soon
and stop playing. You will come Back when new Mechs are announced but it will dry out at some point.
(I had my Pause when i mastered all Mechs avaible in 2013 and come Back myself when there is a new
for me interesting modell to Master one of the Reasons why i am in the Small Group Play now.)
New Players have to take over for you in paying PGI the Server and the expenses. You are quit easy
irrelevant for them now. And when it is a Dealbreaker for lot of Groups to have 4 Man Teams again,
then you mean the irrelevant Teams which have already everything and have already payed their part.
They cost Money and don't bring in fresh.
That is the honest Truth, old Players Satisfaction is a Luxury.
I can leave MWO when i want, and go on play Star Citizen. And i will when MWO is no longer Fun at it is now.
But i like it, as i am a BT fan, read all Books, have a Tabletop Regiment Combat Group and played every
Mechwarrior title avaible for Computer. And i don't like to see an old Friend vanish.

Over and Out
Elkarlo

Edited by Elkarlo, 02 April 2015 - 09:56 PM.

[Impossible Wasabi]

The Space Pope is not sure what the best solution is, but it does get a bit old sometimes when you run into big units constantly rolling deep (8-10 people) with 2 or 3 people.

It's not that you can't win, but it requires so much effort and teammates who can at least soak damage and/or do some damage (which is not something group ELO matchmaker guarantees).

Edited by The True Space Pope, 02 April 2015 - 09:14 PM.

[Deathlike]

Elkarlo, on 02 April 2015 - 08:58 PM, said:

But other Games work perfectly with smaller Groups.

And bigger Groups have _now_ Faction Ware Fare

The Problem is why nobody likes Community Warefare:
there are the Big Groups which stomps them regularly.

When we exclude Big Groups from the normal Pugging Lists,
then they will be even more forced into Community Warfare.

But you should face it: Pugging is the Bread and Butter Gaming.
There you can have your first Experience, you gain your Experience Points there, new Players
gain their first Group Play and Gaming experience there.

We have the Choice to make the Experience for the already farmed Players better,
or for the Players which don't play MWO so serious.

The Community Warfare Module is a Luxury, the Pugging gets new Players into the Game.
Atm the Pugging experience is very bad for small groups. Especially thanks to the Big Teams.

I'm not going to repeat myself here... so let me make this clear.

It is PGI's responsibility to have provided friendly new player mechanism... FROM THE BEGINNING.

It should have been done before the game's "launch".

It should have been done before CW was added.

It better freaking be done BEFORE it gets on Stream... if it has any chance of being relevant.

It's been skipped over many times over... in favor of other things that make money... like mechs.

The thing that doesn't appear to make money, but actually does in the long term... is actually making sure the new player is set up to WANT to put in money... is by providing all the tools that is needed to teach that player to succeed. When you do not do that, you set up for spreading the word that the game is not worth playing, and it is hard to fix such propagation of that notion to people. There's plenty of people of people that play this very game, that could not ever convince people (whether that person even wants their friends to share their experience) to play this game. I'm not even talking about spending money... I'm talking "willing to spend the time" to do things. That is a freaking travesty, and by no means is that not rectifiable, but it's a freaking large climb at this point in time to get that accomplished.

I'd love to find ways to improve the experience... and you're preaching to the choir. However, you can't always entirely cater to new players... they still have to invest in it (and I don't mean monetarily, I'm talking about time and effort) with GOOD SOLID TUTORIALS so that they WANT to come back and play more.

Quote

This has to Change, there are two ways:
1) Putting 2 Man Teams into both Queue's and putting equal 2 man Teams on each side.
2) Reducing Team Size in Pugging Games to 4
3) Third leave it this way and there will be less and less Non-Clan Players around,
making the weight of a leaving player higher, and the Community will shrink into nonexistenz.
No more fresh Money income, more and more Moneymilking Mechs and skins etc... PGI goes Bankrcupt, MWO dies.

These radical changes would never happen. People spent a lot of time last year arguing for big groups and group play. Units have SHRUNK because of the 4-man premade rule way back when... because apparently it was a "quick fix" for PGI, but inevitably reducing many units due to that behavior. While not all units suffered, but the community as a whole suffered for that... and that has ultimately hurt PGI's bottom line far more than so many other controversies.

The "quick fix" is a bad long term solution.

Quote

ATM the solo Experience is somewhat bareable, the small Team Experience is horrible.
In 2013 it was far better untill Elo was introduced, then the 12 Player mode made i better again, now with the Big Teams it is horrible again.

When Elo wasn't introduced, it was literally about farming inferior random groups. It wasn't hard to do.

If you're fearing big teams, you're probably not as good as you think you are. Gotta learn to play through adversity and try to get better. Not all 12-mans are the same, but if you are already fearing them when you see the groups... then you've lost before you even begun the match.

Quote

Look at your Signature Deathlike... you don't have much left todo in this Game, you will be bored soon
and stop playing. You will come Back when new Mechs are announced but it will dry out at some point.
(I had my Pause when i mastered all Mechs avaible in 2013 and come Back myself when there is a new
for me interesting modell to Master one of the Reasons why i am in the Small Group Play now.)
New Players have to take over for you in paying PGI the Server and the expenses. You are quit easy
irrelevant for them now. And when it is a Dealbreaker for lot of Groups to have 4 Man Teams again,
then you mean the irrelevant Teams which have already everything and have already payed their part.
They cost Money and don't bring in fresh.
That is the honest Truth, old Players Satisfaction is a Luxury.
I can leave MWO when i want, and go on play Star Citizen. And i will when MWO is no longer Fun at it is now.
But i like it, as i am a BT fan, read all Books, have a Tabletop Regiment Combat Group and played every
Mechwarrior title avaible for Computer. And i don't like to see an old Friend vanish.

Over and Out
Elkarlo

I've been stuck here... sticking to my guns... complaining and expressing myself on the forums as much as I can. The only way the game is bearable is with the people I play with. I'm bored quite a bit, but manage to play the game so I don't get the "strictly ForumWarrior title". I try to play as much as I whine.... even while the game of ForumWarrior is "new and exciting". I don't spend time on the forums to just do ForumWarrioring... I give a damn about stuff. If PGI doesn't think what I have to say is valid... then it's not my problem.

PGI and MWO will succeed or fail on their own merits... with no help from myself. If it isn't important enough to address the New Player Experience ASAP, then that is the path they are taking. There have been previous hints from other games that the track PGI is on is not a good road to be traveled... but perhaps history will remind us that in some way shape or form.