65 replies to this topic

[SharpCookie]

There is no reason to bring trials in CW except to handicap your team. An organized group may forgive and carry you, but that's not going to happen in a PUG match.

If you can't afford a drop deck of mechs, then grind SOLO until you can. You simply do not belong in CW yet. PUGs don't belong in CW, but someone has to fill in the groups smaller than 12. That someone should not be a newbie in trials.

PS: My experience is 100% PUG clan side. IS may have the same problem.. A lot of clan trials are just garbage being piloted by newer pilots. Over 95% of every PUG CW match I have been in, that's over 110k LP worth, has at least 2 players with between 0 and 300 damage across 4 mechs. This is a result of the combination of new/bad player and trial mechs. Just say NO to TRIALS IN CW.

Edited by SharpCookie, 01 April 2015 - 08:56 PM.

[John1352]

Or they could redo champion builds and do something similar for clan trials, improving new player experience and letting people bring trial mechs without hurting their team so much, all in one step.

[Crasher2003]

SharpCookie, on 01 April 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

There is no reason to bring trials in CW except to handicap your team. An organized group may forgive and carry you, but that's not going to happen in a PUG match.

If you can't afford a drop deck of mechs, then grind SOLO until you can. You simply do not belong in CW yet. PUGs don't belong in CW, but someone has to fill in the groups smaller than 12. That someone should not be a newbie in trials.

PS: My experience is 100% PUG clan side. IS may have the same problem.. A lot of clan trials are just garbage being piloted by newer pilots. Over 95% of every PUG CW match I have been in, that's over 110k LP worth, has at least 2 players with between 0 and 300 damage across 4 mechs. This is a result of the combination of new/bad player and trial mechs. Just say NO to TRIALS IN CW.

You can have trials. Vote to stop PGI making crappy trial builds!

[Tesunie]

You'd have hated my suggestion that CW be run with only Stock mechs then, huh?

Some of the trials aren't bad. A lot of them depends upon how you use them. Then again, I've used stock mechs (IS) in CW and actually did remarkably well before. (Not with this account though, but my all stock mech alternative account.)

Though I do agree with the sentiment that CW is more of End Game content than new player content. Work on building yourself up first, then join CW once you've got some mechs under your belt.

[Vervuel]

For new players, trials may acgtually be better than whatever non-mastered suboptimal crap they have lying around. PGI can't very well say, "No, you may nto play CW until you have x number of meta-chassis mechs in your possession, with all the necessary modules". Nor can PGI tell new players they cannot play CW until they have a certain number of public queue drops, or cbills, or MC, or whatever. Cuz then, new players will then stop playing. And as far as experienced players (trolls more like) bringing trials, how do you prevent it? Deny them the use of trials after a certain number of drops, i.e. "you have 200 drops, now you aren't a new player, no more trials for you?". Unless they drop a lot of solo public matches, that 200 CW match limit will take forever. And a low limit like 5 CW drops isnt enough to farm enough cbills to kit out a good mech, ESPECIALLY on Clan side.

[Tesunie]

Vervuel, on 01 April 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

"No, you may nto play CW until you have x number of meta-chassis mechs in your possession, with all the necessary modules". Nor can PGI tell new players they cannot play CW until...

Though I agree that CW should be treated as end game type material, I also agree with you that we shouldn't exclude anyone from it. Not unless we could somehow come up with some kind of level system (I don't see how this could happen) where once you reach a certain rank, you would unlock additional game modes.

I think CW should cater to end game type stuff, and ignore the complaints of some people about it being too difficult. It's suppose to be difficult, especially if you aren't prepared for end game harder material. (Am I making sense here?)

[Sarevos]

Crasher2003, on 01 April 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

You can have trials. Vote to stop PGI making crappy trial builds!

Meh as someone who advocates freedom of the new player and solo player I really have to agree with op =/ your trial will not assist you in anyway hell they are barely viable in solo in cw those who play to win will twerk all over you with their 4 jj elited mechs (you will be killed by the terrain without jjs those pebbles have been over quirked XD)

Its kinda end game content atm if we had levels of cw like skirmishes and such (which i suppose is what solo queue is but with rewards) then still please reconsider lol

Like seriously if you want to hurt that bad have your wife break out the paddle...

Suggestion?:
As it stands we should expand the field size and maybe add ai units (tanks and such) defending objectives and pushing objectives because squaring off against an evenly skilled enemy team is simply an equipment check best gear wins thats about all and this is really more suited of a skirmish queue or competitve queue kind of mode perhaps trials of possession.

Adding more objectives and shirt on the field becomes more of a test your team can square off against a lance but you will lose as the other two lances will be destroying other points on the map

and you can rush an objective as one but the other team will pick you off as your deathball pushes from one objective and the enemy team wipes out your creeps ttk goes down in the game mode as you cant just deathball or you face a greater disparity of friendly ai as you move from one objective to another and it is not just arena with LP

Edit: whoops forgot to mention the ability to earn cbills by doing objectives will mean you can be effective if you are sentient and can earn some bucks even if your current mech sucks at the time

Edited by Sarevos, 01 April 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[PerfectDuck]

Trust me, pugs can invent builds way worse than trials.

[Grynos]

SharpCookie, on 01 April 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

There is no reason to bring trials in CW except to handicap your team. An organized group may forgive and carry you, but that's not going to happen in a PUG match.

If you can't afford a drop deck of mechs, then grind SOLO until you can. You simply do not belong in CW yet. PUGs don't belong in CW, but someone has to fill in the groups smaller than 12. That someone should not be a newbie in trials.

PS: My experience is 100% PUG clan side. IS may have the same problem.. A lot of clan trials are just garbage being piloted by newer pilots. Over 95% of every PUG CW match I have been in, that's over 110k LP worth, has at least 2 players with between 0 and 300 damage across 4 mechs. This is a result of the combination of new/bad player and trial mechs. Just say NO to TRIALS IN CW.

Sorry but the problem isn't the mechs per say , while I will agree that the trial mechs are not that good they can still be effective in the right hands. Perhaps they are newer players/less skilled players, but then it is really up to the veteran people in that group to guide them. Maybe they listen or maybe they do not but blaming the mechs is poor.

If this bothers You so much, perhaps instead of dropping PuG ( which anyone who has been playing CW knows is a nightmare ) You should join a unit so that you do not have to deal with people in trial mechs.....Some might even say that your agony in this matter is brought on by no one but yourself.

While I am not even close to a great pilot, I was still able to put out decent numbers ( 1000 + ) in trial mechs on an alt account. Sometimes even doing more damage than people in their "Meta" builds with all the bells and whistles they had. So while the trial mechs may be at some disadvantage , that is not why they are doing no damage.

[Romeo Deluxe]

NO!
-1 this post

[Kin3ticX]

PerfectDuck, on 01 April 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

Trust me, pugs can invent builds way worse than trials.

I saw a 1 PPC Awesome-8Q and a 2xLRM-20, 2xLPL Direwolf in CW. Ohh the humanity!


I think the trials should be allowed but need vast improvement. Stock Hellbringer-Prime? Common PGI, what a joke. CW needs at least 4 CW geared and specific trials per tech base and a tutorial on how to play CW. The subtleties of CW are not even obvious to players familiar with the game.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 02 April 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[Tarogato]

John1352, on 01 April 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

Or they could redo champion builds and do something similar for clan trials, improving new player experience and letting people bring trial mechs without hurting their team so much, all in one step.

Crasher2003, on 01 April 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

You can have trials. Vote to stop PGI making crappy trial builds!

This: http://www.reddit.co...ctive_feedback/

If you don't know who Sean Lang is, he's one of the guys behind NGNG, is endorsed by PGI, and provides feedback to PGI and produces some content for them. I feel it's likely that the future of trial mechs lies in that post.

Edited by Tarogato, 02 April 2015 - 03:31 AM.

[Ollie Rifleman Brown]

Kin3ticX, on 02 April 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

I saw a 1 PPC Awesome-8Q and a 2xLRM-20, 2xLPL Direwolf in CW. Ohh the humanity!

Yes that was a glorious match.

+ 2 Disconnects

+ Newbies, who dont know how to open the gates

+ 2/3 Leaders who give different oders to the team.

[anonymous161]

pgi wants to make them bad so that you buy them for real money to get the quirks and ability to make them into a better mech. It's a pretty pathetic shame they are doing actually. Free to play my ass unless you got a ton of free time on your hands to use a trial mech until you can get a real mech it's pretty obvious that it's mostly pay to win.

[YCSLiesmith]

Tarogato, on 02 April 2015 - 03:28 AM, said:

This: http://www.reddit.co...ctive_feedback/

If you don't know who Sean Lang is, he's one of the guys behind NGNG, is endorsed by PGI, and provides feedback to PGI and produces some content for them. I feel it's likely that the future of trial mechs lies in that post.

holy **** these are garbage mechs. throw sean lang in the trash

[Tarogato]

YCSLiesmith, on 02 April 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

holy **** these are garbage mechs. throw sean lang in the trash

It's called a Feedback thread. Go comment on it yourself.

[Mordin Ashe]

No trial Mechs => even less Clan players. Not sure we need that to happen.

[Willard Phule]

Ok...so, on the one hand I absolutely agree with you. On the other, I can see why it would negatively effect PGI's business model,such as it is.

The problem here lies in the fact that NEW PLAYERS that don't own any mechs are ENCOURAGED by PGI to participate in CW by hosting events such as the last one.

The reason this is a problem because PGI has never had any intention of providing any sort of meaningful "new player experience." The tutorial they DO have is lacking in everything except how to move forward. Right now, they consider the Solo Queue as their "training grounds"....by setting the MM up so as to use lower ranked people to "balance out" the higher ranking ones, instead of actual separation.

Trust me, I experienced it myself. All last weekend, any team that didn't have a single premade on it was doomed to lose if the other one did. Nothing but trial mechs and LRM boats without the ability to counter ECM. They stood still, zoomed in, then wondered where their targets were.....right up until they got ran over by a herd of derps. Over and over again. You can try to tell them, they don't listen....they don't listen in the Solo Queue either, so that shouldn't be a shock.

Ultimately, the solution for this has to be somewhere in between what we've got now. Taking trial mechs out of the equation isn't the solution....not everyone owns enough mechs to make a proper drop deck. What they need to do is

LIMIT THE NUMBER OF TRIAL MECHS YOU CAN PUT INTO YOUR DROP DECK

Think about that. If you only allowed 3 in a drop deck, then you're guaranteed to get someone that's played long enough to grind up enough money to buy at least one mech. If you only allowed 2, then the control gets a little tighter.

Downside to this is that it's simple. PGI doesn't like simple. If they can't write a ton of code and make sure that it's completely broken before implementation, they won't do it. Look at the whole MM/Elo thing. They could make that simple as well, but instead...they choose to make it more and more complex to the point that even it doesn't understand what it's supposed to be doing.

[Lily from animove]

thats bad, how should new plyers come and enjoy the game if they need too many gmes until they can outfit a proper dropdeck.

PGI should make some special droptrials, thata re more shaped around the most popular builds used in CW so that newbies without these mechs do have a proper "trial" mech to play and test.

Or further, unit members can "lend" their mechs to the unit pool, and people can use the unit mechlab and use those mechs to drop. This would heavily support the benefit of Units for newbies until they can affort their own mechs and veterans with a lot money can modify the emchs and let newbies test and experience them. And it would create a lot solowarriors going to Units.

I have so many mechs in my lab I never use that I could lend to my rarely playing bdly equipped freinds to enjoy the game a lot more. That may hook them up a lot better and start to play the game much more.

@Willard, do you think someone who bought 2 cheap is light mech with cadete bonus just to join CW will improve the situation?

Edited by Lily from animove, 02 April 2015 - 07:33 AM.

[Grynos]

YCSLiesmith, on 02 April 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

holy **** these are garbage mechs. throw sean lang in the trash

Played the other day, the trial banshee has 6 LPL's , yet has single heat sinks ( like every other trial IS mech ) and yet is quirked for PPC velocity and medium laser cd. The thunderbolt trial is quirked for LPL's yet has a PPC. If the trials were equipped to use the quirks that were given to them it would help.