151 replies to this topic

[The Basilisk]

People...you all are missing entirely the the overshadowing, allaround guiding, godly main philosophy behind MWO development.
More depth in CW ?

HERETICS

It was
It IS
And it always will be


MINIMUM....VIABLE....PRODUCT !!!!!

[Mystere]

The Basilisk, on 13 May 2015 - 12:23 AM, said:

People...you all are missing entirely the the overshadowing, allaround guiding, godly main philosophy behind MWO development.
More depth in CW ?

HERETICS

It was
It IS
And it always will be


MINIMUM....VIABLE....PRODUCT !!!!!

[Kain Demos]

Molossian Dog, on 02 April 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

I appreciate what you are saying, but...

Depth is lostech.

******* A. Looks like a Doom map.

[Antares102]

Currently MWO got the depth of a flash tower defence game.
I play for 4 month now and I have seen everything like 1000x already.
Nothing new, nothing to explore, nothing to test anymore...

[Almond Brown]

Can anyone name a MP Online FPS that has this Depth you seek? I would try that MP Online FPS game. Does WoT have Depth?

[Antares102]

Eve Online had it...
But its no FPS obviously. Bringing a few "depth" elements to a FPS wont be so bad you know.

Edited by Antares102, 14 May 2015 - 06:15 AM.

[Javin]

Any depth would be nice. Even giving factions different flavors would be nice. Give Steiner a 5% tonnage bonus on drops, Davion 5% more range and/or firing speed on AC's, give Liao special ECM variants, etc.... something to make factions different.

Throw in logistics. Have players get % percentage off on purchasing faction mechs depending on their loyalty to the faction. Give players that are loyal to a faction a small daily C-bill bonus, based on total number of faction planets. Make them drop in CW at least one a week or something to reinvigorate CW to get the C-bill bonus. If repair and rearm ever show back up, have the CW rank reduce the repair and rearm skill 5% for every level of faction loyalty. Make planets and factions actually worth something.

Put in automated units. You could program tanks and helicopters into the game. If a faction owns a planet let them invest into the planets defense. If they pay X c-bills they could get extra turrents, tanks, maybe even a reload bay.

Put in new game modes. King of the hill with several factions dropping in lance sized teams. Defend the convoy mode would have the defenders have twice the weight but attackers only have to kill a % of the convoy to win. Defend the base with the attackers having more tonnage but give the defenders a well defended base with a repair bay. Give blow the huge armed ship, or survive waves of tanks mode.

Make certain planets light only due to planet unable to support heavier mechs. You can do the opposite and say gravity is so heavy only heavy or assault mechs can drop.

Add in environment. If rain falls, drop visibility and perhaps increase heat dissipation. Sandstorm could block heat vision and regular visibility and decrease heat dissipation. Let us blow up buildings! Put in fuel tanks that can damage mechs that stand by them if the fuel blows up.

There is so much that could be added to this game to it fun again.

[Duncan1dah0]

How about a vote system during the ceasefire window. Several planets can be offered up with a vote option.

Or, if PGI gets the scouting 4v4 up and running, then during the normal window there are several planets open for the 4v4. The planets with the most scouting missions done or some score/objective accomplished is the planet available for the next CW attack window. This would work well for attacking. I'm not sure how a defender could influence the outcome or if it would be left up to AI to defend. I'm not in favor of the AI defense if there are players wanting to play.

[Mystere]

Almond Brown, on 14 May 2015 - 04:28 AM, said:

Can anyone name a MP Online FPS that has this Depth you seek? I would try that MP Online FPS game. Does WoT have Depth?

Just because no one else has done something does not mean it should not be done. Otherwise we'd all still be in the Stone Age.

As for an online multiplayer game (not an FPS though), Eve Online is probably the first that comes to anyone's mind.

Edited by Mystere, 14 May 2015 - 07:48 AM.

[Telmasa]

Almond Brown, on 14 May 2015 - 04:28 AM, said:

Can anyone name a MP Online FPS that has this Depth you seek? I would try that MP Online FPS game. Does WoT have Depth?

One thing I can grant WoT is that, 2-3 years ago before "browser wars" & "e-sports" took over, Clan Wars was in-depth. It was fun. And it was pretty simple too.

If we had a similar mechanism to Clan Wars - with Dropships instead of "chip stacks" - here in MW:O's Community Warfare, *that* would be pretty great.

That's really the only thing MW:O should ever have drawn inspiration from WoT for, in my view.

[xX PUG Xx]

*WARNING ANOTHER WALL OF TEXT*

So, I decided to go back to the beginning and think of the "process" a new player has to go through, how they start in the game and how they progress from there.

At present there is only a short "orientation" scenario and then they are dumped into the game and left to fend for themselves. If they do not think to go to the forums (and trawl through thousands of posts) they will have very little understanding of what builds / 'Mechs are effective and the hundreds of little nuances that the rest of us probably don't even think about anymore because we are used to using/accounting for them.

To draw the new player into the BattleTech universe and have some hope of them understanding exactly why we are fighting in "big stompy robots", I believe the game needs an introductory video; something short, perhaps ninety seconds to two minutes long. Explaining briefly the fall of the Star League, the Succession Wars and finally the Clan invasion, this would give them a quick glimpse of the depth in the BT Canon. It would also be necessary to have an information section in the game (currently this is a section on the website), giving descriptions of the various Houses and Clans; this would then make the next part a little easier for the new recruit - they have to choose a Faction / Clan before they can play online. The reason for this is this is the only way i can think of to make the whole mechanic of Community Warfare (I believe this is a bad name and should be changed to something more appropriate to the IP), each player would then enter the MWO universe as either a House trained MechWarrior recruit or a Clan Sibko trainee.

The new player "Cadet" should play through the current training scenario before watching a cutscene of their MechWarrior exiting a SimPod and being congratulated by his/her class mates. Something to pull the new player into the "world" in which they are about to (hopefully) spend many hours playing. Then they are shown a cutscene of the new recruit walking into a Mechbay with all the noise and light of Techs working on the 'Mechs hitting them. The cadet looks around and they get the first sight of their own BattleMech (for arguments sake we'll say a Nova-S for Clan and Blackjack BJ-3 for IS). Now yes I did say their own. Every other game, F2P or otherwise, provides a starting point for every player; MWO should be no different. That is another reason for choosing a Medium class 'Mech, in the Canon of BT the Medium class is the most prolific and the vast majority of new MechWarriors would be shown the ropes and have their skills developed in either Light or Medium class 'Mechs. One of these are unlocked and can be modified fully, allowing the new player to learn the art of customising; a whole meta game in itself.

Now they have a 'Mech to drop in and are given the playlist options, well actually at this point just one; the current 25 match count would be a good starting point to segregate the new players from seasoned veterans with full stables of modified 'Mechs. Again this is something that I covered above but in essence this would be the new recruit working their way from being a FNG to a mildly experienced MechWarrior in their chosen Faction. For the sake of balance without taking away free-will of players, it would be good to have the new players held to the 4 vs. 4 queues in the "Cadet Only" for a minimum of [4-5] drops, this gives them the chance to play against their peers and get a feel for the game. Once this minimum drop requirement has been met, they are able to expand into the other queues but still have the option of sticking to the "Cadet Only" queues until they reach the 25 drop limit. As they progress through the 25 matches, the other "Trial" 'Mechs should be made available for single drop use; they do not "own" these and cannot modify them as is the case just now. It does give them the option to try different chassis and help them to choose what they want to purchase next. The tricky thing is that we are so far down the PokeMech road that I cannot see any other way of easing a new player into the full MWO game without taking toys (or even restricting them) from existing long term players, obviously unfair in the extreme to players that have put hundreds or thousands of hours into the game over the last 3+ years.

Once they reach the 25 drop limit another window opens and they are given the option of retaining their current Clan/House or swapping from Clan to IS / vice versa. This is where they will be provided with the "other" starter 'Mech but will still be in the big kids pool, no going back to the "Cadet Only" queue to learn and level the new 'Mech.

I am still unsure if this would work or if the new player should simply be provided with both to begin with, the queue mechanics would determine if this would be practical; obviously at the moment CW is segregated on the Tech level, Clan for Clan warriors and IS for IS warriors. If PGI are happy that the 'Mechs are balanced enough for us to play in the current Public Queues as mixed Tech, then they should be balanced enough for us to mix Tech in CW too. (This opens the old can of worms that everyone would use ClanTech but I disagree, it would allow every player to cherry pick and it might actually lead to dropdeck variety - another discussion for another thread).

This then leads into the options I listed above.

[Mystere]

xX PUG Xx, on 17 May 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

*WARNING ANOTHER WALL OF TEXT*

This is great for dealing with the abysmal new player experience.

Unfortunately, I do not see how this relates to depth in CW gameplay. Maybe a little more explanation (and hopefully not another wall of text ) is in order.

Edited by Mystere, 17 May 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[xX PUG Xx]

Mystere, on 17 May 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

This is great for dealing with the abysmal new player experience.

Unfortunately, I do not see how this relates to depth in CW gameplay. Maybe a little more explanation (and hopefully not another wall of text ) is in order.

LoL

It is meant to tie into the fact I think ALL game modes should be in some way tied to CW. Essentially MWO should be based in the persistent world of BattleTech and Faction Warfare, instead of the throw away world of Mech Arena Combat Online.

The only way I can see this being accomplished is to begin at the first screen the new player sees, explain to them who we are fighting for and what we are trying to accomplish. Then they are taken into the Community (Faction) Warfare with an interest in the Faction they chose and hopefully an understanding of the relevance of the missions.

The game modes need to be tweaked and at the least the front end of how we get into drops needs to be revamped to give some insight into what is being accomplished by completing this "mission", at present nothing FEELS tied together.

(short enough? I could go on....and on.....and on......you get the picture )

[Mystere]

xX PUG Xx, on 17 May 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

LoL

It is meant to tie into the fact I think ALL game modes should be in some way tied to CW. Essentially MWO should be based in the persistent world of BattleTech and Faction Warfare, instead of the throw away world of Mech Arena Combat Online.

The only way I can see this being accomplished is to begin at the first screen the new player sees, explain to them who we are fighting for and what we are trying to accomplish. Then they are taken into the Community (Faction) Warfare with an interest in the Faction they chose and hopefully an understanding of the relevance of the missions.

The game modes need to be tweaked and at the least the front end of how we get into drops needs to be revamped to give some insight into what is being accomplished by completing this "mission", at present nothing FEELS tied together.

(short enough? I could go on....and on.....and on......you get the picture )

Better.

[Telmasa]

Sounds like an entirely new game from ground-up, xX PUG Xx...the idea has merits and all, just doesn't feasibly deal with reality of what we have now, y'know?

Nontheless, the ideas could be applied to the CW experience in some ways. Making CW matches feel more like missions and less like some kind of Solaris-arena-team-competition tournament would undeniably be more fun.

Though like I keep saying having that Solaris-team thing still around, just in another format, is worth keeping in mind. Evil e-sports attention and all.

Edited by Telmasa, 17 May 2015 - 01:58 PM.

[xX PUG Xx]

I suppose it really is, unfortunately the concept of MWO as it is now falls far short of what it could be. There are any number of mini crutches that could be put in to prop it up but I feel we would still have the same problem.

[Gattsus]

I came with the idea.

[Mystere]

Gattsus, on 17 May 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

I came with the idea.

?

[Mirkk Defwode]

Almond Brown, on 14 May 2015 - 04:28 AM, said:

Can anyone name a MP Online FPS that has this Depth you seek? I would try that MP Online FPS game. Does WoT have Depth?

Red Orchestra 2 campaign mode.

[Apnu]

xX PUG Xx, on 17 May 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

It is meant to tie into the fact I think ALL game modes should be in some way tied to CW. Essentially MWO should be based in the persistent world of BattleTech and Faction Warfare, instead of the throw away world of Mech Arena Combat Online.