81 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

There is always:
- CW but you still get matched with people, depends on if you are solo or grouped.
- Private Matches. I only know of a few league type setups and Stock Mech but there may be others or you could try to make one.

[Kyynele]

Darian DelFord, on 02 April 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

The last couple of weeks the MM has been absolutely horrible about dropping me into the minor leagues. I am plying against people I have never even heard of nor their units. They start in 3rd person view half of them and no clue how to pilot. I understand that at times it will happen. However it has become ever increasing worse and is really frustrating me as my team can not pull it together, 3 hours of drops today and I have 2 wins to show for it.

This is frustating the every loving **** out of me and needs to be adressed even if it means an extra 30 seconds in the MM.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're saying.

If you consistently get dropped in matches with AND AGAINST people that are mostly noticeably less skilled than you, how are you losing most of your matches?

Aren't those the perfect conditions for doing 1000+ damage and getting 5-6 kills?

edit - typo in the word "perfect", lol

Edited by Kyynele, 02 April 2015 - 03:34 PM.

[Roadkill]

Mcgral18, on 02 April 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

Well, at least most of our Assaults....reached...200 damage.

We sorta left you for last on purpose in that match. It was easier (and more efficient) to stay mobile and take out your teammates than to try and rush you to eliminate you quickly. Wubshee is scary. :-)

Wasn't that the match on Frozen City that we swapped sides... like 4 times? Two complete circles? NASCAR FTW!

[Mcgral18]

Roadkill, on 02 April 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

We sorta left you for last on purpose in that match. It was easier (and more efficient) to stay mobile and take out your teammates than to try and rush you to eliminate you quickly. Wubshee is scary. :-)

Wasn't that the match on Frozen City that we swapped sides... like 4 times? Two complete circles? NASCAR FTW!

Yes, the LRM crab stopped moving.


PUG LIFE

[Bishop Steiner]

Here's the million Dollar question...since we don't see our Elo posted anywhere....how doe the OP truly know he DOESN'T belong in the Minors?

Just because everyone thinks they are a Pro doesn't mean they actually are a Madison Bumgarner.

Not saying that the OP can't be as good as he thinks... just... you know... seems like a lot of assumptions.

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

Here's the million Dollar question...since we don't see our Elo posted anywhere....how doe the OP truly know he DOESN'T belong in the Minors?

BECAUSE INTERNETS.

WE ARE ALL ABOVE AVERAGE.

[KodiakGW]

Wildstreak, on 02 April 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

There is always:
- CW but you still get matched with people, depends on if you are solo or grouped.
- Private Matches. I only know of a few league type setups and Stock Mech but there may be others or you could try to make one.

You know, this past weekend I enjoyed playing CW solo more than any time playing in solo PUGville in the past 3-4 months. Isn't it odd, since Elo/MM plays no part in choosing your team. It is always first come, first serve. So completely random players or small groups of players (saw no group bigger than five). Yes, there were an number of underperforming players, (check the CSJ forums for my post about three) but I had a better return on my time investment, and more fun. Too bad the server populations dropped to nearly non-existent.

Also, I WISH private matches payed out something in CBills or XP. But, I know that will never happen.

[Mystere]

You all know the reason why the MLB sends players to the minors. Why is this any different? Have people already forgotten about Michael Jordan?

Edited by Mystere, 02 April 2015 - 04:14 PM.

[A Large Infant]

Have people already forgotten about Bo Jackson?

Wait......

[Virgil Greyson]

I find pug life much worse in Skirmish mode for some reason.

[Escef]

Alistair Winter, on 02 April 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

Matchmaker is only there to ensure that people don't have a WLR below a certain point, because then they will quit the game out of frustration. And they can't have a WLR above a certain point, because then they earn way too much money.

Seriously? You really believe that?

Ok, kids, maybe you need to, I don't know, learn how an ELO system works?

You have a baseline score that gets modified by your wins and losses. If, based upon compared ELO scores, you are expected to win a match than victory gives you a very small bump to your ELO and a loss a nasty hit. If, by comparative ELO scores, you are expected to lose than a loss gives you a small hit to your score and a win gives you a big boost. The idea being that after enough games your ELO score will reflect your ability.

ELO matchmaking attempts to create matches where the odds of winning are as close to even as possible. When even matches can be made, the W/L ratio will be close to even. With uneven matches, your ELO score will still reflect your ability level, but your W/L ratio will be not appear to be a good match for your score.

ELO in team games works best when team composition does not change from game to game. That is not what we have most of the time in MWO. This reduces the effectiveness of using ELO as a tool for arranging balanced matches (but, hey, a less than ideal tool is better than no tool).

MWO is such a complicated game that ELO matchmaking can easily be broken. If you spent the last month dominating games with a brawler-Stalker, suddenly swapping to a skirmisher-Battlemaster will likely cause you to get wrecked over and over. Because a Stalker with a 300 standard and a Battlemaster with a 375+ XL play a LOT differently. And with MWO's ELO system broken down by weight class, it simply assumes that all mechs of a given class play the same. Hell, even if it was by chassis-family, there's a world of difference between 3D and 4X Cataphracts.

The goal of the matchmaker is to get reasonably balanced games. It is not to ensure your W/L ratio, nor regulate your c-bill earnings. Sometimes it will accomplish those as a side effect, but that is not its purpose. Sort of like how random map selection is there to provide varied environments. Randomness is not obligated to provide variety, but it often does anyway. Randomness's side effect of producing variety is why it is used, but that doesn't mean it will oblige you and give you variety. We've all been inexplicably stuffed into the same map 5-7 games in a row; that's still random, even without variety.

So, yeah, the c-bill reward system is what is there to regulate your c-bill rewards, not the match maker. The matchmaker is not there to regulate your W/L ratio, but if it is working correctly, with enough players of all skill levels in the system, it should do so anyway as a side effect.

[A Large Infant]

Elo is more than just a non-ideal system. It is a terrible system (to use by itself) for a game as diverse as Mechwarrior.

In chess, both sides start with equal equipment. In Mechwarrior, one can start with the equivalent of just a King, against a force of exclusively Rooks.

Edited by Meeso Thorny, 02 April 2015 - 06:04 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Escef, on 02 April 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

The goal of the matchmaker is to get reasonably balanced games. It is not to ensure your W/L ratio,

Funny because a stated part of the algorithm is getting players to a 1:1 W/L.....

[Escef]

Yokaiko, on 02 April 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Funny because a stated part of the algorithm is getting players to a 1:1 W/L.....

Last I heard the statement was that a 1:1 W/L ratio would be the end result of the system working. It isn't what the system is made to do, but it is what the system produces under ideal circumstances. Note that it is possible for the system to not be working well and to still get that result.

[A Large Infant]

Ok. Here is the question. Should top 12 players in the game decide to take weaponless, armorless, 19kph Stalkers.....should the matchmaker take this into account?

[Deathlike]

I'm not sure if you were doing matches over the event weekend or what... but it is technically kinda more common than you think in the solo queue.

Note that the Solo queue may have struggled with quality opponents since the CW event took significant focus from the other queues.

The solo queue gets really messy once a solo-only tourney goes on as the influx of "more than your average PUG Elo" comes into play, and that tends to skew what shows up in every match (and the endless complaining that comes with it).

As far as I'm concerned, this isn't new, and it is PUG LIFE. You'd be lucky if the match was actually competitive... because many times the teammates don't know any better...

Edited by Deathlike, 02 April 2015 - 06:28 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Escef, on 02 April 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

Last I heard the statement was that a 1:1 W/L ratio would be the end result of the system working.

How do you think it goes about that?

[Deathlike]

Yokaiko, on 02 April 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

How do you think it goes about that?

Magic and Voodoo.

This is why I get sent to Mordor as soon as I want to quit for the night.

WHYYYYYYYYY?????????????

[Roadkill]

Yokaiko, on 02 April 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

How do you think it goes about that?

It's a natural byproduct if the matchmaker is successful in creating games where each team has a 50% chance to win.

[Yokaiko]

Deathlike, on 02 April 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

Magic and Voodoo.

This is why I get sent to Mordor as soon as I want to quit for the night.

WHYYYYYYYYY?????????????

Mordor I don't really mind, River ******, makes me want to slam the O button and move on to the next mech.