81 replies to this topic

[WarZ]

Mcgral18, on 02 April 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

All you must do, is Carry Harder.

Does this one qualify as elo hell ? Definitely some form of carry

http://imgur.com/1RLnZwX

Edited by WarZ, 02 April 2015 - 07:10 PM.

[EgoSlayer]

Roadkill, on 02 April 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

It's a natural byproduct if the matchmaker is successful in creating games where each team has a 50% chance to win.

Or to put it another way:
If you are matched against opponents of equal skill you each have an equal chance of winning.

Nowhere in any elo system MWO's or otherwise is it a stated goal of having a 1:1 W/L ratio. The only people who keep saying that are the ones who don't understand how an elo system works.

[A Large Infant]

Ok. Here is the question. If the top 12 players in the game decide to take weaponless, armorless, 19kph Stalkers.....should the matchmaker take this into account?

[Yokaiko]

Meeso Thorny, on 02 April 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

Ok. Here is the question. If the top 12 players in the game decide to take weaponless, armorless, 19kph Stalkers.....should the matchmaker take this into account?

Of of the million reasons why win loss was about the worst metric for deciding elo. Not even match score (which has its own issues but at least that is self determined) JUST win loss.

[Mcgral18]

WarZ, on 02 April 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

Does this one qualify as elo hell ? Definitely some form of carry

http://imgur.com/1RLnZwX

Hm...only 6 of the 24 players failed to get 200 damage.

That's not bad in the PUG LIFE, actually.


Impressive on your part.

[Escef]

Yokaiko, on 02 April 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

How do you think it goes about that?

Didn't we already cover this?

[Yokaiko]

Escef, on 02 April 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

Didn't we already cover this?

Not digging through twitter, facebook, like 35 ask the devs and a pile of 2 year old forum posts to prove you wrong, but that 1:1 win loss WAS a stated goal of Matchmaker Phase 3.

I remember my W/L going from 7:1 to 2:1 while my KDR went from 2:1 to 5:1, this was also the period when they instituted the max 4 man groups, the 8 man queue.

Can you imagine the loss streaks to go from 7:1 win loss to 2:1 (per my stats page) with over 3000 games. To say I detest matchmaker 4 is an understatement. The ONLY reason I came back with CW which I like much better. You know why even SOLO, there is no matchmaker at all. I do drop solo in CW, a lot, I don't always have time to wait around on a group to let me in/form. Its literally the only thing that makes this game bearable anymore.

Edited by Yokaiko, 02 April 2015 - 07:38 PM.

[Escef]

Yokaiko, on 02 April 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Not digging through twitter, facebook, like 35 ask the devs and a pile of 2 year old forum posts to prove you wrong, but that 1:1 win loss WAS a stated goal of Matchmaker Phase 3.

To the best of my recollection, they stated that it "should" end with a 1:1 W/L ratio, not that it was the goal, just that it was a desired side effect.

Yokaiko, on 02 April 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Can you imagine the loss streaks to go from 7:1 win loss to 2:1 (per my stats page) with over 3000 games.

My sympathy expands before ye like the vast Sahara Ocean.

Edited by Escef, 02 April 2015 - 07:49 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

Here's the million Dollar question...since we don't see our Elo posted anywhere....how doe the OP truly know he DOESN'T belong in the Minors?

Just because everyone thinks they are a Pro doesn't mean they actually are a Madison Bumgarner.

Not saying that the OP can't be as good as he thinks... just... you know... seems like a lot of assumptions.

Roadkill, on 02 April 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

BECAUSE INTERNETS.

WE ARE ALL ABOVE AVERAGE.

More due to how military subjects are presented these days.
As I once described on a news forum, take WWII and earlier, a majority of the population knew quite a bit about their militaries including that the bulk was made up of average guys, the Average Joes. People knew the bulk were in Infantry, Armor, Artillery, the backbone of forces.
Since Korea/Vietnam up to today, things changed. Now the civilians know more about Special Forces than Average Joe despite the supposed 'secret' nature of Special Forces missions. This is even true of video games, look at how many military related ones out there put you into certain roles when you only play one character. Usually they stick you into some kind of Special Forces role (SEAL, Ranger, Delta Force, etc.). Rare is the game where you are just an Infantryman, the one field everyone can get into. I find the same in books, TV and film, there are more fictional and real Special Forces characters than Average Joes.
This results in a good portion of gamers thinking they are special despite the reality that Special Forces are a very small percentage of militaries. This is also one of several reasons I do not encourage people to think they know a lot about real life militaries or that games help you understand the subject despite some people not liking that truth. When you know more about the 'secret teams' and little about the Average Joes, you don't understand a lot that is military related.
For me, I consider games like real life that there will be very few who would count as the Special Forces of the gaming population.

Deathlike, on 02 April 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

Magic and Voodoo.

This is why I get sent to Mordor as soon as I want to quit for the night.

WHYYYYYYYYY?????????????

My only problem with the Pits of Hell map is when the whole team goes center and, even worse, all 11 decide to use one entrance jamming each other up making it easier for us to die. I keep trying to tell people to try flanking or at least use 2 entrances but nooooooooo......

[InspectorG]

Welcome to ELO Hell, coffee and cookies over by the pile of burning teammates.
Be sure to carry someone on your way out, thx.




At first you get mad.
Then it becomes funny.
Then after that...a way of life.

[Escef]

Wildstreak, on 02 April 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

My only problem with the Pits of Hell map is when the whole team goes center and, even worse, all 11 decide to use one entrance jamming each other up making it easier for us to die. I keep trying to tell people to try flanking or at least use 2 entrances but nooooooooo......

Wait, wait, wait... They actually use an entrance? S***, I have to practically give these guys an engraved invitation to use an entrance. Far too often they just all walk up to an entry and stare at it like a caveman looking at a rocketship.

[Sean von Steinike]

Roadkill, on 02 April 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

BECAUSE INTERNETS.

WE ARE ALL ABOVE AVERAGE.

Not me, I am decidedly average.

[Elizander]

You will probably have a lot more wins/kills when making new accounts while using Trial Mechs because the game thinks you're a newbie and uses you as filler to round off team ELO around more competent players.

[Elizander]

InspectorG, on 02 April 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Welcome to ELO Hell, coffee and cookies over by the pile of burning teammates.
Be sure to carry someone on your way out, thx.




At first you get mad.
Then it becomes funny.
Then after that...a way of life.

I've had games where even 1k damage and 6 kills was not enough. When that happens it's time to change weight classes or play an alt account. Some days when I'm not using an optimized robot or leveling something new and figuring out stuff I just get trashed over and over since I only deal like 200-300 damage.

This doesn't happen all the time, mind you. It depends on time of day mostly.

Edited by Elizander, 02 April 2015 - 10:55 PM.

[Sarlic]

Artgathan, on 02 April 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

Not saying this is the case here, but in general absolute values in this kind of argument are not very useful without context.

If you've player 659 games, then 658 wins is very impressive.

If you've played 100,000 games, have 658 more wins than losses means you have a ~1.00 W/L rate.

Which means ELO is doing it's job..

The main problem is that pilots don't like the system and prioir introducement they objected against it. It's the system what is annoying. ELO works fine.

Edited by Sarlic, 02 April 2015 - 11:12 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

Deathlike, on 02 April 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

Magic and Voodoo.
...

No, sorry. Sacrifizing goats does nothing.

Sean von Steinike, on 02 April 2015 - 10:46 PM, said:

Not me, I am decidedly average.

That makes you above average honest on the interwebz. ggclose

Edited by Molossian Dog, 03 April 2015 - 12:19 AM.

[Deathlike]

Yokaiko, on 02 April 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

Mordor I don't really mind, River ******, makes me want to slam the O button and move on to the next mech.

Well...
The game knows when you're leaving...
The game knows what you hate...
The game knows when you're winning or losing...
So keep playing for ****s sake.

[Alistair Winter]

Escef, on 02 April 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Seriously? You really believe that?
Ok, kids, maybe you need to, I don't know, learn how an ELO system works?

If you want to engage in a discussion with me, try to avoid that sort of tone. It really makes it a lot less fun to have a discussion.

Escef, on 02 April 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

ELO matchmaking attempts to create matches where the odds of winning are as close to even as possible.

Clearly, PGI has a set of parameters it can manipulate to determine how the matchmaker works. If the goal was really to create even matches, you need players with relatively equal skills. A player who started his account yesterday should not normally be playing 3 year veterans, unless those veterans are abnormally bad players. But if you start a new account for MWO and play for a week, I guarantee you will notice the names of some good players in your matches. People who you perhaps never expected to encounter with your new account.

PGI mixes low and high Elo players to ensure that they maintain a weight balance and relatively similar Elo levels on both teams, while keeping the queue time down. What the OP seems to be suggesting - which I agree with - is that the matchmaker should not be allowed to mix Elo levels so freely. It makes the matches less fun for both low and high Elo players.

When you have new players mixed with veterans, there's a fair number of matches that end simply because someone made a rookie mistake. Maybe one lance decided not to join up with the rest of the team, for example, and got into a 4 vs 12 engagement. Maybe 2 assault mechs decided to stay behind and snipe, and they got picked off by enemy light mechs of superior skill a minute into the match. A lot of people find it frustrating to play those kinds of matches, where your own efforts basically had zero significance, because you just lost 4 teammates before fighting had properly started on your side of the map.

A huge variety of Elo makes it boring for the high level players, because they're frustrated with teammates making dumb decisions and losing the match needlesly. And it makes it boring for low level players because many or most of the people they encounter have both the skills and (on average) the pimped, mastered mechs with modules and consumables needed to end their life with brutal speed.

If new players could be separated from veteran players more than they are now, they would be more likely to have matches where they encounter other players who are still in the process of upgrading their mechs or learning to design good builds. You can also do this by an arbitrary cadet period, but PGI doesn't seem keen to expand cadet period either, unfortunately.

[jlawsl]

So, another post about how good one is, and how terrible the rest of the team is. Not saying I didn't run into times like that. Heck, I had to laugh when I was in my AWS-PB and I killed three mechs, noticed I was the last one alive on Mining Collective, go to the center, give a few last shots and die. 640something damage, 3 kills no assist. Well, I got the only kills, no other players beat 170 damage, only 3 beat 145. I laughed. Its part of the game.

Oh well, I lost. But I think the thing that gets me is this guy(OP) talking about the clans/guilds/groups, whatever, that he never heard of. These forums breed some narcissistic, Napoleon syndrome D bags. I would be lying if I said I hadn't seen that Hodd or what ever tag before, but they didn't stand out.

Everyone has good games and bad games. I am starting to think that there are three groups of "bad" players in this game. One stems from inexperience, the new player. One stems from lack of skill or just not caring enough to play a lot, this also include rusty players that have returned after a long break, people that have gotten out of the game and log in for special events only, or people that just generally lack in the hand-eye coordination department. The last one is probably the most common other then the new player-The one that got carried. Guys that play in teams or with groups that generally win, even though they have some questionable skill on your team. That person won along with their team, and decided that they were gonna return to the solo queues and mess some "pug" noobs up, only to find that they were put in over their head, and aren't as great as they think.

[Piney II]

OP,

It must be a truly rough existence being a l33t player and being forced to mingle with the unwashed masses.
It must be the price you pay for wearing the white robes.

The pain must be unbearable.

My heart goes out to you...........it really does.......

Edited by Piney, 03 April 2015 - 03:03 AM.