231 replies to this topic

[sneeking]

More of a button ratteler than a one hit wonder myself, gets me killed but face time exchanges with that all important twist and shield at the decisive moment are what I live for.

They could remove alphas and I wouldn't care.

Edited by sneeking, 04 April 2015 - 11:52 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

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The only thing keeping this game alive ATM is the willingness of people who are still on the fence to throw money out the window in the faint hope that this game will eventually get its act together.

No the truth is most people have fun playing the game. And the balance is at least as good and probably better than any other game in Mechwarrior history. It will never please all players but its still a very fun game for the majority of us.


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lore says

To those worried about lore. Well the lore was not well thought out and does not translate well to a real time game or real life logic. This game can never be like lore because lore does not make any sense. You would have to force people to play like the lore by SEVERE limitations on everything. That would be another game.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 05 April 2015 - 12:04 AM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Mystere, on 04 April 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

As someone has already stated:

Convergence!

Replace instant and automatic convergence with fixed convergence instead, but adjustable in the Mech Lab and on the battlefield. Get to the convergence sweet spot before firing or aim your weapons individually.

Now that takes skill. Or do you disagree?

I see posts like this. I like them, agree with them, and get slightly more excited because people have good ideas.

Then I realize how horrific it might be to implement, simply because of the lackadaisical way many players play this game; especially new ones. They'll just say WHY ARENT MY WEAPONS HITTING WHERE I SAY GAME IS BROKEN. I realize that not everyone is a huge fan of both BT lore and skill-based competitive games, along with a strong desire for persistent warfare on a grand scale.

And that sucks. Wish I could wololo some fools into thinking like me!

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 05 April 2015 - 02:42 AM.

[sneeking]

If you give a convergence scroll wheel forward and back I would find a reason to unbind my consumables from the mouse wheel.

[Madcap72]

sneeking, on 05 April 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

If you give a convergence scroll wheel forward and back I would find a reason to unbind my consumables from the mouse wheel.

It would be even better if you could have convergence be automated so that the mechs onboard targeting system slaved to the HUD and did it for you.

Then, maybe you could unlock a skill or something that made it happen faster.

[sneeking]

No want manual convergence, so I can constantly set it as I retreat and approach.

[sneeking]

You get rid of most lazy cheesers right there with that alone.

With manual convergence if you get cheesed then you know you got cheesed by a pro

[Tarogato]

I'm all for convergence. It used to be in the game and they took it out people didn't like it I suppose... and now people want it back? Where exactly do we stand, anymore?

My ideal vision of how convergence would work in this game is that convergence is automatic with a manual option. New player, can't handle manual mode? Use auto convergence - it'll work 90% of the time. But you might not have great accuracy against moving targets, especially ones moving against a distant background. An advanced player could set manual convergence - a freely adjustable setting between, say, 50m and 1,500m. It could be bound to the scroll wheel, or use two keybinds for step up and step down. Manual convergence sets a 100m window. If you set the distance at 500m, then your weapons will only converge between 450 and 550m for a total of only 100m variance. Heck, you can even have another setting if you really wanted to set the size of the manual convergence window. Then we're really started to get closer to a simulation demanding skill rather than a pinpoint alpha twitch shooter.

That's all complicated though. I would be happy if they simply brought the old delayed convergence back and tweaked it to a reasonable delay, not as strong as an affect as it was in CB.

[Lightfoot]

Alpha-Strike means fire all weapons on your mech on a single trigger pull.

Move Laterally to your attacker and there is no alpha-strike ability because all the weapons travel at different speeds. So, if you move laterally on attacks only one weapon type in an alpha-strike will hit and the rest will miss or spread across the mech while the alpha-striking mech gets hit with it's maximum heat-spike which cripples it's firing ability most likely.

Now if you mean Group-Fire, that is canon from the purest lore and PGI has added Ghost heat to block unbalancing amounts damage from boating mechs. So you got a lot of help there.

But the alpha-strike threat is there to teach players to move their mechs rather than just parking on a ridge or standing still and torso twisting. Always move laterally even if it is just to rock back and forth over the same spot. This breaks up alpha-strikes and the smart player won't even fire one, plus it forces them to aim their weapons rather than just point and click them. It's a huge difference.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Cut heat scale back, increase dissipation

[xe N on]

Lightfoot, on 05 April 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

Alpha-Strike means fire all weapons on your mech on a single trigger pull.

Move Laterally to your attacker and there is no alpha-strike ability because all the weapons travel at different speeds.

My laser travel all with the same Speed.

Edited by xe N on, 05 April 2015 - 06:01 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Lightfoot, on 05 April 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

Now if you mean Group-Fire, that is canon from the purest lore and PGI has added Ghost heat to block unbalancing amounts damage from boating mechs. So you got a lot of help there.

Weapons grouping is canon.
Firing weapons in a group simultaneously is canon.
Having those weapons hit the same section automatically is NOT canon.

[Fragnot]

Escef, on 04 April 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

Uh-huh. Too bad that the laser-vomit Timby has an Alpha in the mid-50s. The dreaded DoomCrow even lower. Even the semi-popular 2xERPPC/2xGauss Dire Wolf is only 50 points with an additional 10 to the flanking areas the PPCs hit. A little torso twisting and several mechs can take 3 or 4 hits from that with no armor breach.

Stop staring at the enemy, don't be the only guy he sees, and for the love of all that is holy, don't be the only guy on your team in front of 3+ enemies, it doesn't end well.

Agree 100%

Title of this thread should be "Getting Hit By Alpha Strike Is The Problem". And that's a player issue, not a design flaw.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Uh-huh. Too bad that the laser-vomit Timby has an Alpha in the mid-50s. The dreaded DoomCrow even lower. Even the semi-popular 2xERPPC/2xGauss Dire Wolf is only 50 points with an additional 10 to the flanking areas the PPCs hit. A little torso twisting and several mechs can take 3 or 4 hits from that with no armor breach.

Stop staring at the enemy, don't be the only guy he sees, and for the love of all that is holy, don't be the only guy on your team in front of 3+ enemies, it doesn't end well.

Exactly they are already limiting alpha strikes by heat. Many people already run TWs with alphas in the 40s to get their DPS up. The only mechs with hi alphas are close range mechs. That seems like a fair trade off.

Also I play a lot of games and time do death is not bad at all if you do not get focused by an entire team. But if you stair and thing and do not torso twist and do not use cover and do not put yourself in the right spots on the map etc you will die fast.

Really I am just not sure we have a problem here.

[Weeny Machine]

XX Sulla XX, on 05 April 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

Exactly they are already limiting alpha strikes by heat.  Many people already run TWs with alphas in the 40s to get their DPS up.  The only mechs with hi alphas are close range mechs. That seems like a fair trade off.

Also I play a lot of games and time do death is not bad at all if you do not get focused by an entire team. But if you stair and thing and do not torso twist and do not use cover and do not put yourself in the right spots on the map etc you will die fast.

Really I am just not sure we have a problem here.

I am sorry but heat is not necessarily a limiting factor. On so many maps people play whack-a-mole: peek out - alpha - hide and disipate heat - rinse repeat.

This happens on ranges often on 800m+ and it is laser vomit. Supporting this playstyle things like advanced zoom module, instant convergence and (partly) instant damage. Add to this list of mistakes in this game is that energy weapons have a "range" and a kind of "extreme range". There should be just one range. Then you wouldn't see that said crap going on. Plus brawler would be not completely screwed on some maps.

Lately I have matches were I see (except on some assaults) hardly any weapons besides lasers. I am sure everyone here has made similar experiences. The trend seems to get more and more extreme. And honestly, it gets dull - at least for me. If I want disco light, I go in a club.

Fragnot, on 05 April 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

Agree 100%

Title of this thread should be "Getting Hit By Alpha Strike Is The Problem". And that's a player issue, not a design flaw.

Cool. You can avoid instant damage. And in most cases it is before you complaint. Thanks to quirks the burn time is significantly lowered on some chasis. Now add lateny and human reaction time and here you go

Edited by Bush Hopper, 05 April 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[Armorine]

We don't have a problem here. This is a player issue. Alpha strikes are punishment for doing something stupid, like standing still or staring at me. The only mechs that really hurt from alphas are close range brawlers. I've never once been killed by an alpha and thought alphas are the problem. It's always been me doing something stupid.... Like charging thinking its a lone combatant....and it's actually half the team. Ttk is right where it should be. It's only fast when you don't make an attempt to spread the damage. Always keep moving, ALWAYS!!! If you park your gonna get punished. I chewed up a guy this morning that parked on a ridge....with missiles... At 600m. He was covered by ECM. I couldn't lock. I just let him have it.

Bottom line. Don't complain. Up your game.

The last few days I've had the best games I've ever had. All very close matches. A few miracle comeback matches. I've had no complaints except I've felt information warfare needs a overhaul.

End rant.

[XX Sulla XX]

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I am sorry but heat is not necessarily a limiting factor. On so many maps people play whack-a-mole: peek out - alpha - hide and disipate heat - rinse repeat.

This happens on ranges often on 800m+ and it is laser vomit. Supporting this playstyle things like advanced zoom module, instant convergence and (partly) instant damage. Add to this list of mistakes in this game is that energy weapons have a "range" and a kind of "extreme range". There should be just one range. Then you wouldn't see that said crap going on. Plus brawler would be not completely screwed on some maps.

Lately I have matches were I see (except on some assaults) hardly any weapons besides lasers. I am sure everyone here has made similar experiences. The trend seems to get more and more extreme. And honestly, it gets dull - at least for me. If I want disco light, I go in a club.

The game is mainly mid range now. You do not see a lot of long range stand offs like in the past.

Also I would a LOT rather have the meta be laser heavy than PPC/AC/Gauss heavy. That is front loaded ranged damage heavy. I have no desire to go back to those days.

Think about what they have done. They have limited front loaded long range sniping/jump sniping. Instead they have made the meta mid range damage over time lasers. This works soooooooo much better for 95% of the player base.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 05 April 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[badaa]

its not alpha its pinpoint alphas wouldn't be a problem if every shot didnt hit the same spot.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lord0fHats, on 04 April 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

I agree that the ability to alpha is the corner stone on which the meta of MWO has built.

I've been Alpha striking since the 80s... I don't think it is something new to MW:O...

I have Stone Rhinos in My TT games that throw 75 point Alphas against 1/2 the armor we have, and nobody complains! Heck it won a Best Assault Mech design challenge on Heavy Metal Pro! IT CAN FIRE 75/75/60 all game long. Noboby complains! Here every player with Skillz whines cause someone hit them with 30 damage!

[Midax]

I don't see why they don't do the weapons like in world of tanks. They could use something similar to end the pin point alpha. It would need to collapse down to max accuracy faster than it does in world of tanks, but it would enable things like movement ad heat to matter more. They could even have different weapons effected by differing amounts by movement. Imagine a gauss rifle being pinpoint accurate out to 1000m if your still, but if your moving and twisting in a brawl you have a area the size of a atlas you might hit, but in that same brawl a ac20 can easily hit the torso of an atlas.

I think they could add a whole new level of meta builds this way and solve the alpha problem.