51 replies to this topic

[Weepy Wanebow]

Ok so I am aware that there are still balance, technical, and game play issues that need to be resolved but I would argue that a number of us like new content on a regular basis along side them fixing and addressing concerns.
I'm curious what people would like to see in future mech packs? What should each pack be called?
The first thing some of you may notice is a lack of some of your favorite mechs. You find yourself asking "why did you not include [insert favorite mech name here] in your poll?" Well, I'll tell you.
I selected mechs on certain criteria
1) They had to of had an official production year of 3052 or before since PGI stated that 3052 is about as far as they are looking for inspiration right now. I know some mechs you want to justify had prototypes running around before this deadline but if their official mass production year was later I left them off the list
2) They cannot be referred to as "extinct" by 3052. If the source material says they went extinct during the succession wars it didn't make the list. If the source material says it was extremely rare or only existed in a Comstar vault, I still included it
3) They had to of had at least 3 variants with existing MWO and time period appropriate tech or easily altered variant (what they did with the Orion protector)
4) No quad or LAM mechs made the list.
5) There is only one IS Omnimech in production within this time frame and I left it off on the thought of a future all IS Omnimech pack might be a thing and that it would more appropriate for it.
6) I included unseen mechs because PGI already has some in the game and seem to not mind changing things enough to get around licensing issues/concerns
If I left off one that still fits within the criteria please list it and I'll add it to the polls.
Otherwise please vote and discuss!!
Fell free to look up any mech you have never heard of on
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page


Edit-Added suggested choice to last question

Edit - removed the robotics/macross unseen mechs as I previously did not understand how they differed from other unseen mechs

Edit - changed criteria 3 with consideration of some choices PGI had made in the past I was unaware of at time of making this post

Edit - removed all unseen mechs as it was stated that PGI would not be revisiting that controversy and did not want them taking votes away from more likely options

Edited by Smell Da Glove, 09 April 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[The Massive]

I like mech speculation.

[Weepy Wanebow]

I like mech speculation too but this was partially mech speculation and partially curiosity about what other players want to see in the game should the timeline halt at 3052 and consideration of the 3 variant to master deal......

Although I guess PGI could always make up a variant for those mechs which already have 2 which fit the seeming criteria they use

[Twilight Fenrir]

I imagine a "Clanbuster" pack will be on the horizon, presumably not until the in-game clock reads 3052, though. With all the variants Comstar improved for the Battle of Tukkayyid.

• BL9-KNT Black Knight
  
• CHP-3N Champion
  
• HSR 400-D Hussar
  
• KGC-001 King Crab
  
• WVE-9N Wyvern

I expect to also see a Clan "Garrison" pack, with some favorite Clanner non-omni Battlemechs. Such as the Kodiak, and all of the IIC mechs, (Jenner IIC better be first on that list >_>)


I'd like to see another Reseen pack in the vain of Project Phoenix, especially the Marauder. It may not look like the traditional Marauder... but this is something I'd like to see happen:




Also: Could you update the last question to have a third choice? Something along the lines of, 'I don't care' or 'whatever is appropriate for the pack'?

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 04 April 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[Lord0fHats]

Definitely like to see the Crab given that the King Crab is now in game. The Flea as well as the Clan Invasion is the event that really made the Flea famous, so its continued absence is irking to me. Wolfhound I think is in the same boat though isn't it? Definitely want Fire Moth. Cause Clan Ghost Bear. And Fire Moth

[Naduk]

not sure why you would bother putting in mechs like the Warhammer and Marauder
you know they are not going to be put in and you know they will get the most votes
you also know if they could of added them, they would already be in the game

[Twilight Fenrir]

Oh, you missed the Marauder II. Which, after the Annihilator, would be my 2nd choice...

Also, the Bandersnatch. A 75 ton ECM mech the IS desperately needs...

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 04 April 2015 - 07:21 PM.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Naduk, on 04 April 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

not sure why you would bother putting in mechs like the Warhammer and Marauder
you know they are not going to be put in and you know they will get the most votes
you also know if they could of added them, they would already be in the game

Why wouldn't they be able to put them in?

The issue with the Warhammer and marauder is the same issue that existed for the griffin, shadow hawk, battle master, locust, thunderbolt, and wolverine. All of the mech in the previous sentence are "unseen" but the "unseen" issue was resolved by releasing a "Reseen" varient that changed the core design enough to use the new image without violating or infringing on copy rights.

Using Twilight Fenrir's mock up would totally work. It looks similar enough to the original and a lot like the Reseen version without looking so much like the original marauder that people would be getting sued.

Twilight Fenrir, on 04 April 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

Edited by Smell Da Glove, 05 April 2015 - 02:50 AM.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Twilight Fenrir, on 04 April 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

Oh, you missed the Marauder II. Which, after the Annihilator, would be my 2nd choice...

Also, the Bandersnatch. A 75 ton ECM mech the IS desperately needs...

Marauder II wasn't included due to the lack of time frame appropriate variants, same thing with the bandersnatch but I'll agree that the IS needs an ECM heavy. That however could also be accomplished by the Black Knight. Even though the Black Knight variant that has an ECM is a dark age variant it doesn't have any other tech on it that couldn't have existed in 3052

[Weepy Wanebow]

Twilight Fenrir, on 04 April 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

I imagine a "Clanbuster" pack will be on the horizon, presumably not until the in-game clock reads 3052, though. With all the variants Comstar improved for the Battle of Tukkayyid.

I wouldn't mind this at all and think that we will probably see it. It makes sense thematically

Twilight Fenrir, on 04 April 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

I expect to also see a Clan "Garrison" pack, with some favorite Clanner non-omni Battlemechs. Such as the Kodiak, and all of the IIC mechs, (Jenner IIC better be first on that list >_>)

I have mixed feelings about this personally. I'd love to see it but I'm of the mind set that Omnimech mechs should have a quick adjust feature that is unique to them in the ready screen or in the CW que. In lore the Omnimech wasn't as customizable as regular mechs but it's weapon payload could be adjusted in short order using the omnipods. This currently isn't an option in the game which should be. I think nothing should change on IS mechs as far as customization goes. This too is like lore. In lore you could change all sorts of stuff on a standard battlemech but it took some serious time and man power if you wanted to change it up a lot and then you were stuck that way until you again found the time and man power to change it. (About like how now you can only make changes in the mech lab). I think if you gave clan tech a platform that was as adjustable as the IS platforms you would be unleashing a certain kind of terror that would be hard to fix.

Twilight Fenrir, on 04 April 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

I'd like to see another Reseen pack in the vain of Project Phoenix, especially the Marauder. It may not look like the traditional Marauder... but this is something I'd like to see happen

Agreed

[War Dogz]

Nice Selections might as well as for the IS version of the ER Medium laser also. Yes I know it is 3057 tech but think of the balance issues it would fix with the new chasis

[Lord0fHats]

Smell Da Glove, on 05 April 2015 - 02:43 AM, said:

Why wouldn't they be able to put them in?

The issue with the Warhammer and marauder is the same issue that existed for the griffin, shadow hawk, battle master, locust, thunderbolt, and wolverine. All of the mech in the previous sentence are "unseen" but the "unseen" issue was resolved by releasing a "Reseen" varient that changed the core design enough to use the new image without violating or infringing on copy rights.

It's not the same. The Warhammer and Marauder specifically were based on Robotech (Super Dimension Fortress Macross), which has its own long history of legal battles and none of the companies involved really want to go fighting over it again. The Reseen thus far intorduced were from other series;

Locust - Crusher Joe
Shadowhawk - Fang of the Sun
Thunderbolt - Fang of the Sun
Battlemaster - Fang of the Sun
Griffon - Fang of the Sun
Wolverine - Fang of the Sun

It is highly unlikely (to the point it has been outright stated) that any design based on the Robotech franchise will appear in MWO. No one wants to pay for the lawyers.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 05 April 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[HlynkaCG]

Smell Da Glove, on 05 April 2015 - 02:43 AM, said:

The issue with the Warhammer and marauder is the same issue that existed for the griffin, shadow hawk, battle master, locust, thunderbolt, and wolverine. All of the mech in the previous sentence are "unseen" but the "unseen" issue was resolved by releasing a "Reseen" varient that changed the core design enough to use the new image without violating or infringing on copy rights.

Not quite.

Sunrise is a seperate entity from Harmony Gold just as PGI is seperate from Catalyst games.

Just because Sunrise has agreed to let mechs based of Dougram/Fang of the Sun's art be "Reseen" doesn't mean that Harmony Gold has agreed to do the same with Macross/Robotech.

Lord0fHats, on 05 April 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

It's not the same. The Warhammer and Marauder specifically were based on Robotech (Super Dimension Fortress Macross), which has its own long history of legal battles and none of the companies involved really want to go fighting over it again. The Reseen thus far intorduced were from other series;...

...All owned by Sunrise which has since reached an agreement allowing their designs to be used in the BTU.

[Lord0fHats]

No. The Robotech IP is owned by Tatsunoko Production in Japan and Harmony Gold in the US (according to US courts anyway). Sunrise is owned by Bandai-Namco who holds the rights to Fang of the Sun and Crusher Joe. Sunrise was successfully able to reach an agreement over the use of some of the IP materials in Battletech, which is why we see those Reseen in MWO today.

However the issue of the Unseen from Robotech remains a tense legal issue. Battletech can get away with it in the US because it just doesn't seel the Robotech Reseen in Japan (where Tatsunoko would sue them if they did so). However MWO is an online game available in Japan. If PGI attempted to add the Robotech Unseen into MWO Tatsunoko would have ground to sue, thus without an agreement between the companies those mechs won't appear. And there probably will never be an agreement because the court ruling made by US courts was really stupid. To this day it makes no sense even in the context of copyright law at the time.

The current situation is untennable because both Battletech and Robotech have long histories of legal problems. Just one company with legal problems can be managed. Two is pretty much irreconcilable.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 05 April 2015 - 04:09 AM.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Lord0fHats, on 05 April 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

No. The Robotech IP is owned by Tatsunoko Production in Japan and Harmony Gold in the US (according to US courts anyway). Sunrise is owned by Bandai-Namco who holds the rights to Fang of the Sun and Crusher Joe. Sunrise was successfully able to reach an agreement over the use of some of the IP materials in Battletech, which is why we see those Reseen in MWO today.

However the issue of the Unseen from Robotech remains a tense legal issue. Battletech can get away with it in the US because it just doesn't seel the Robotech Reseen in Japan (where Tatsunoko would sue them if they did so). However MWO is an online game available in Japan. If PGI attempted to add the Robotech Unseen into MWO Tatsunoko would have ground to sue, thus without an agreement between the companies those mechs won't appear. And there probably will never be an agreement because the court ruling made by US courts was really stupid. To this day it makes no sense even in the context of copyright law at the time.

. Hmmmm I didn't know all of that. Bits and pieces but not all of it. It does sound a bit wonky though. Should I remove Warhammer and marauder then?......and in that case also remove the rifleman and longbow?

Edited by Smell Da Glove, 05 April 2015 - 04:27 AM.

[Lord0fHats]

Well the weird part is that in the trailer for Mechwarrior 5 (which became MWO) PGI included the Warhammer. In it's Unseen config no less. No idea what the feth was up with that, but PGI and Harmony Gold have reiterated a number of times that the Unseen associated with Robotech are unlikely to ever appear in MWO even in their Reseen designs because they don't want to get caught in another legal war with Tatsunoko.

More information can be found on http://tvtropes.org/...wedByTheLawyers. Just go to the top of the list under the "Anime and Manga" heading for Robotech/Macross, and scroll down a bit on Tabletop Games for a brief bit on FASA.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 05 April 2015 - 04:28 AM.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Lord0fHats, on 05 April 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

Well the weird part is that in the trailer for Mechwarrior 5 (which became MWO) PGI included the Warhammer. In it's Unseen config no less. No idea what the feth was up with that, but PGI and Harmony Gold have reiterated a number of times that the Unseen associated with Robotech are unlikely to ever appear in MWO even in their Reseen designs because they don't want to get caught in another legal war with Tatsunoko.

More information can be found on http://tvtropes.org/...wedByTheLawyers. Just go to the top of the list under the "Anime and Manga" heading for Robotech/Macross, and scroll down a bit on Tabletop Games for a brief bit on FASA.

.

I removed the Warhammer, marauder, rifleman, and longbow for the reasons described and listed on your link. I didn't previously understand the true difference between the various unseen mechs. This means that some categories are missing all their votes but that's ok for now

[990Dreams]

The choices that I think would make the game more interesting:

Cyclops - 90t, Sensor Arrays canonically (more IS electronics stuff?), a variety of hardpoint configurations.
Warhammer - A good, versatile HP config similar to the TDR and SMN would allow many interesting options.
Star Slayer - An IS medium Mech based around energy weapons, similar to the Stormcrow.
Wolfhound - A fast, powerful Light similar to the Spider but different in its own ways.
Turkina - A powerful Mech like the DWF but lighter weight would allow a bit more variety in Clan assaults.
Crossbow - A Clan Mech built for boating.
Phantom - A fast Clan Medium with good HP configurations and ECM.
Fire Moth - The Locust of the Clans. Need I say more?

[Twilight Fenrir]

Smell Da Glove, on 05 April 2015 - 02:47 AM, said:

Marauder II wasn't included due to the lack of time frame appropriate variants, same thing with the bandersnatch but I'll agree that the IS needs an ECM heavy. That however could also be accomplished by the Black Knight. Even though the Black Knight variant that has an ECM is a dark age variant it doesn't have any other tech on it that couldn't have existed in 3052

The Marauder II has 4 available variants.... Sarna doesn't list things in chronological order, so it skips to talking about dark age variants, then back to the time appropriate ones:
MAD-5A
MAD-4A
MAD-5B
MAD-5C

And in 3057, we'll get one with X-pulse lasers, and ECM!


The Bandersnatch has 3 variants. One of them technically doesn't count, because it has a UAC10 on it... but, this could easily be swapped for a regular AC/10, and I wouldn't complain


PGI has fudged one or two variants before though. The Enforcer only has 2 canonical variants, they invented the 5P. The Protector technically shouldn't be allowed, as it had a Snub Nosed PPC, but PGI fudged it with a regular PPC.

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 05 April 2015 - 05:53 AM.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Twilight Fenrir, on 05 April 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

The Marauder II has 4 available variants.... Sarna doesn't list things in chronological order, so it skips to talking about dark age variants, then back to the time appropriate ones:
MAD-5A
MAD-4A
MAD-5B
MAD-5C

And in 3057, we'll get one with X-pulse lasers, and ECM!


The Bandersnatch has 3 variants. One of them technically doesn't count, because it has a UAC10 on it... but, this could easily be swapped for a regular AC/10, and I wouldn't complain


PGI has fudged one or two variants before though. The Enforcer only has 2 canonical variants, they invented the 5P. The Protector technically shouldn't be allowed, as it had a Snub Nosed PPC, but PGI fudged it with a regular PPC.

. Didn't add marauder II because it's still wonky with the whole marauder thing but did add bandersnatch. Also it wasn't a hard sell sense the Bandersnatch is one of my favorites.

Edited by Smell Da Glove, 05 April 2015 - 06:14 AM.