106 replies to this topic

[washout]

If PGI does end up nerfing the stalker all they will have done is proven that they can't even look up player stats. If they did it would be plain as day that the 3 top clan mechs are much, much more powerful than even the currently considered most powerful IS mech, and really it's debatable that the stalker-4n is the most powerful IS mech. The Thunderbolt-5SS and Quickdraw-5K give it a run for the money.

The only circumstance where nerfing the stalker would make sense is if they did a big blanket nerf to all the top mechs at once, inner sphere and clan, otherwise all you are doing is giving the already dominant clan builds even more of a lead.

As for my reasoning for this, I play both IS and clan mechs a lot, when looking at my stats I found that my Stormcrow/Hellbringer stats were right up there with my Pre-nerf wolverene-6k stats (I don't play the timber a lot). To reiterate, the stormcrow is as powerful as the Wolverene-6K and they nerfed that to hell and back, why haven't they nerfed the Stormcrow when it's easily as powerful as something else they considered OP?

Edited by washout, 04 April 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[DjPush]

Who said they were?

[Mystere]

DjPush, on 04 April 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

Who said they were?

It's called putting the cart ahead of the horse.

Alternatively, you can call it a "preemptive QQ strike".

Edited by Mystere, 04 April 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[washout]

DjPush, on 04 April 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

Who said they were?

Did you read my post? This is a speculative topic, I never said they are, but he is talking about it, and frankly his contemplating it on twitter makes people nervous.

Mystere, on 04 April 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

It's called putting the cart ahead of the horse.

Alternative, you can call it a "preemptive QQ strike".

I'll call it opening up discussion about something that is making many people lose faith in PGI's balancing ideas. It will be a very troubling trend if he starts nerfing every top IS build and continues to not even mention the OP top clan mechs.

Edited by washout, 04 April 2015 - 01:43 PM.

[Johny Rocket]

Yeah that would blow, though I do know why people want it. I dropped into a cw game with a 4N as my 1st mech and ended up dropping with a Russian 8 man team that came in with 7 4Ns and a Commando. Counter Attack on Helbore Springs, it was brutal it was over quickly and half the 4Ns were still standing.
Does it prove the 4N to be over powered? No.

[washout]

Tractor Joe, on 04 April 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Yeah that would blow, though I do know why people want it. I dropped into a cw game with a 4N as my 1st mech and ended up dropping with a Russian 8 man team that came in with 7 4Ns and a Commando. Counter Attack on Helbore Springs, it was brutal it was over quickly and half the 4Ns were still standing.
Does it prove the 4N to be over powered? No.

Imo all that shows is the same thing the clans are doing, how often do you see anything but Stormcrow/Timber/Hellbringer? Doesn't the fact that these get picked so much more often also show how OP they are? In fact because of robot diversity on the IS side you see Stalker/Thunderbolt way less often than you see the top clan mechs.

In fact many people in my unit still don't take stalkers because they have such small engines and big heat problems.

If they nerf the stalker you are just going to see a wave of even more Thunderbolts, there is nothing that can currently replace it for IS, Banshee/Crab weigh too much and the Dragon/Quickdraw are too fragile.

Edited by washout, 04 April 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[Davers]

washout, on 04 April 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

If PGI does end up nerfing the stalker all they will have done is proven that they can't even look up player stats. If they did it would be plain as day that the 3 top clan mechs are much, much more powerful than even the currently considered most powerful IS mech, and really it's debatable that the stalker-4n is the most powerful IS mech. The Thunderbolt-5SS and Quickdraw-5K give it a run for the money.

The only circumstance where nerfing the stalker would make sense is if they did a big blanket nerf to all the top mechs at once, inner sphere and clan, otherwise all you are doing is giving the already dominant clan builds even more of a lead.

As for my reasoning for this, I play both IS and clan mechs a lot, when looking at my stats I found that my Stormcrow/Hellbringer stats were right up there with my Pre-nerf wolverene-6k stats (I don't play the timber a lot). To reiterate, the stormcrow is as powerful as the Wolverene-6K and they nerfed that to hell and back, why haven't they nerfed the Stormcrow when it's easily as powerful as something else they considered OP?

Russ stated that the 'nerf' to the 6K was done to appease the 'give mechs stock load out quirks' crowd, and not because of it's performance.

[Shadow Magnet]

After the last few quirk passes I wouldn't dare to place a bet on what PGI will quirk next. They messed up and garaged the Dragons for no reason at all. I don't see any logic or concept in their changes anymore. It's a waste of our time to speculate or discuss about it.

[Shadow Magnet]

Davers, on 04 April 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

Russ stated that the 'nerf' to the 6K was done to appease the 'give mechs stock load out quirks' crowd, and not because of it's performance.

Yeah, and why in the hell he did listen to those guys? Where is the Wolverine now? That change just increased the mech monoculturing even more. And the sad part is that the result was totally predictable.

[Ursh]

As many people will say, it's not always that some mechs are OP, it's that they're well-designed and show how bad some other chassis are.

Except the Twolf. It's probably OP, but all heavies are too nimble, IS and clan.
The Huggin is probably OP, and so are certain versions of the Firestarter.

[Bulletsponge0]

washout, on 04 April 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

Imo all that shows is the same thing the clans are doing, how often do you see anything but Stormcrow/Timber/Hellbringer? Doesn't the fact that these get picked so much more often also show how OP they are? In fact because of robot diversity on the IS side you see Stalker/Thunderbolt way less often than you see the top clan mechs.

In fact many people in my unit still don't take stalkers because they have such small engines and big heat problems.

If they nerf the stalker you are just going to see a wave of even more Thunderbolts, there is nothing that can currently replace it for IS, Banshee/Crab weigh too much and the Dragon/Quickdraw are too fragile.

it shows me...

that those 3 are picked all the time means none of the other clan mechs are any good..there are no other viable clan mechs for CW

[Mcgral18]

This about the Twitter GH thing?


isLLs getting the same GH multiplier as the Clams (2.8 to 4) so firing 4 hurts more, but doesn't affect 3?


Or lessening the quirks that make the isLL cooler than ERMLs?

Probably some other things I missed.

[Burktross]

Mystere, on 04 April 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

Alternatively, you can call it a "preemptive QQ strike".

They need to increase the cost of that consumable...

[Ursh]

With Wave 3 you'll see some new clan mechs in CW, since 3 of the 4 mechs have the potential to be quite good. The gladiator is dead weight though. 26 tons of guns for an assault mech...nope, nope, nope.

[Davers]

Shadow Magnet, on 04 April 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

Yeah, and why in the hell he did listen to those guys? Where is the Wolverine now? That change just increased the mech monoculturing even more. And the sad part is that the result was totally predictable.

I know. Now the Wolverine is in a pile of other mechs that have LL quirks, and can do it better (Centurion and Enforcer come to mind first). Now we don't have a single medium mech with LPL quirks (The Blackjack lost theirs too for the same reason). But I keep the LPL on mine anyway, out of the love I had using it.

[Kiiyor]

The 4N is indeed a decent mech, and it is very good at what it does; medium to long range direct fire support.

It just so happens that much of CW is stand-off peek fighting, and the design of the Stalker lets it excel at this.

It sucks at everything else.

In the solo and group queues, the veneer of awesomeness is pockmarked with low res damage textures. If you can get into a decent position, you can dominate the early peek phase. If things get more intimate though, it's one of the worst there is at fisticuffs. Few mechs suck at much at brawling, or are as much of a liability in a really mobile fight. It's torso twist range means it almost always has to stop to shoot, and if you're plodding along trying to keep up with your team and it's obsession with Daytona on Caustic, you can't torso twist to spread damage - meaning one of your torsos will usually evaporate, along with half your firepower.

It doesn't need a nerf.

[Gas Guzzler]

I don't think it is unreasonable to have a Mech with that alpha reach 75%. The Timber can do the same alpha over a slightly longer duration and reach what 45%? But if they really need to nerf it just up the multipliers for 5+. I don't think 4 is a huge problem.

[Johnny Z]

Kiiyor, on 04 April 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

The 4N is indeed a decent mech, and it is very good at what it does; medium to long range direct fire support.

It just so happens that much of CW is stand-off peek fighting, and the design of the Stalker lets it excel at this.

It sucks at everything else.

In the solo and group queues, the veneer of awesomeness is pockmarked with low res damage textures. If you can get into a decent position, you can dominate the early peek phase. If things get more intimate though, it's one of the worst there is at fisticuffs. Few mechs suck at much at brawling, or are as much of a liability in a really mobile fight. It's torso twist range means it almost always has to stop to shoot, and if you're plodding along trying to keep up with your team and it's obsession with Daytona on Caustic, you can't torso twist to spread damage - meaning one of your torsos will usually evaporate, along with half your firepower.

It doesn't need a nerf.

This is correct. If it was running around at 110 kph or 90 kph like some other OP mechs with huge lightning torso twist, or had tiny hit boxes, then I would say nerf it.

If the STK 4N had an Omni XL and was 10 tons lighter with jump jets, it would be close to a Cheese Wolf

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 April 2015 - 02:15 PM.

[washout]

Mcgral18, on 04 April 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

This about the Twitter GH thing?


isLLs getting the same GH multiplier as the Clams (2.8 to 4) so firing 4 hurts more, but doesn't affect 3?


Or lessening the quirks that make the isLL cooler than ERMLs?

Probably some other things I missed.

For the GH it's fine, it already gets more heat firing 4 than it normally would since they haven't normalised the ghost heat 3 limit yet.

As for keeping LL cooler than ERML on one chassis that is totally fine, you can boat and pinpoint fire 6 CERML, you sure can't do that with LL.

I.E. with LL the burn time required due to staggering your laser fire because of the ghost heat limit makes them do less poinpoint damage than ERML are capable of. If they slapped a ghost heat limit of say 4 on ERML then yes, go ahead and nerf the LL heat scale, until then LL is still much less powerful than ERML. I know that I would rather boat 6 CERML any day of the week on a stalker.

Edited by washout, 04 April 2015 - 02:22 PM.

[Spheroid]

Again where is the link for this nerf? I don't read twitter. It sucks because I just bought a 4N out of boredem this week.