167 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

alby910, on 05 April 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Hi

I would like to know which are the best MECH modules for an LRM Boat . Also which are the best Assault Mechs for an LRM boat . Catapults are fine however they can't carry much ammo

Thanks

Well, you've been suitably and appropriately mocked for wanting to LRM, let alone in an assault, so I'll answer your question: Advanced Target Decay is required, it's very important to bring your own UAV. Everything else is taste. Don't fool yourself with Advanced Sensor Range since you can't effectively LRM beyond 800M anyway (200-500 is your sweet spot).

Edited by Terciel1976, 06 April 2015 - 05:39 AM.

[dragnier1]

Wasn't mocking the OP, but frankly 7 tons of lrm ammo is more than enough on a catapult using 2 10, 15 or 20 launchers. I have never used lrm 5 launchers so i don't know how fast they drain their ammo. Sometimes the battle is over even before i get to clear 5 tons of ammo.

Romeo Deluxe, on 06 April 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

...and this is why your own line of sight is the best bet. You can see before your missiles even arrive if they are going to hit or the opponent is hiding under the bed sheets.

So true, blind firing never works, at least for me 90% of the time. I prefer watching the missiles kiss my targets, even though it's kind of dangerous if i'm boating lrms.

[TercieI]

dragnier1, on 06 April 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

Wasn't mocking the OP, but frankly 7 tons of lrm ammo is more than enough on a catapult using 2 10, 15 or 20 launchers. I have never used lrm 5 launchers so i don't know how fast they drain their ammo. Sometimes the battle is over even before i get to clear 5 tons of ammo.


So true, blind firing never works, at least for me 90% of the time. I prefer watching the missiles kiss my targets, even though it's kind of dangerous if i'm boating lrms.

Pre-quirks, one ton per 5 tubes plus a little was a good rule of thumb. Heavily quirked LRM mechs eat much more (my HBK-4J carries nine tons for 20 tubes and sometimes runs out).

[Darwins Dog]

The best mechs for LRMs are mediums. Hunchback, Trebuchet, Griffon, etc. They are fast enough to get to a good position, fire a volley or two, then fade away before taking return fire. You don't need more ammo, you need more missiles to hit. Artemis only helps if you have LoS, and a medium lets you get into a good position to see your enemy.

The thing is that LRMs are most effective around 300m. Your opponent will have less time to find cover before they hit, your TAG will help, you can get LoS for artemis, etc.

Boating LRMs in an assault is an all around bad idea. A lone assault mech, behind the lines, with weapons that don't work inside 180m is just lunch for light mechs. You also (unless you have a friend to spot for you) can't rely on anyone to keep locks or TAG for you.

Sorry for being rambly, I'm just tired.

[Ductus Hase]

My opinion:
This is not competative.
I am a Noob with a crappy PC.

Forumwarriors tell us:
LRM are Noobweapon... so I go LRM and must disagree:
LRM is THE skillweapon - Lasers is just point and click and Ballistics are in between.
Hit and kill without Lock or high velocity is true mastery - Wannabepros like to call this luck.

With LRM you need to know the map... else you are going to waste ammo and get whacked by lights.
You need to know when to chainfire and when to blockfire, you don´t only need to know about Cooldown, Heat, Ghostheat and Velocity - there is also Spread to consider.
(k... with LRM you don´t need to know where the Hitboxes are - this might make up for Spread...^^ )

Use Boats with small launchers to get to know the maps. With LRM positioning is the key: Stick close to your team, spot, take fire (watch out for your XL though - if you are using one) and support everyone in need.
Your Range presents an opportunity to support elsewhere - don´t reduce yourself to a third line fighter.
The closer you are the more effective you become - with 220m your BAP can counter ECM - never get closer than 180m though and stay second line if you are using an XL.

For ammo Rotation:
http://mwomercs.com/...mmo-being-used/
Building Boats you NEED to know this.




Modules:
Advanced Target Decay... offensive, expensive, important, musthave.

Radar Depriviation: Counters enemies Target Decay... defensive, good for spotting and LRM-Dueling.
Advanced Sensors: Stackable with BAP this means you can spot as far as you can shoot.
Seismic Sensors: Some like them, I mention them. Less surprise Buttsex by Lights sneaking up on you.

Consumeables: UAV and a Strike... You are second line... if the enemy appears behind you, your team should know.

Weapon Modules: Get Cooldown first, Range second.

Clan LRM Boats:
Take 2-3 LRM15, BAP and a TAG - no Artemis.
Consider NARC depending on your playstyle.
For constant Rain you might consider 4-5x LRM5 instead of the LRM15. Again no Artemis.
LRM 10 are usefull in mixed builds - a waste otherwise.

I only experimented with SCR - there are others...


IS LRM Boats:
IS got heavier launchers and wider spread... thus I sometimes use Artemis.
LRM 5 (best ton usage), LRM 10 (compromise) and LRM15 (best overall) are general choices... LRM 20 are questionable right now: They waste a lot of ammo. Consider Quirks though... they change a lot.

4x LRM5 are needed for Rain with an insignificant pause; 5x LRM5 for true Rain (with modules).
BAP, TAG and NARC is the same as with Clans.


For Lights: I didn´t manage a good LRM Boat with these... though the Commando-3A has been fun.

For Mediums don´t forget to look at the Kintaros, Trebuchets and Hunchbacks. Due to their quirks those can dish out as heavier classes. Shadowhawk and Griffin are nice as well - I prefer them for SRMs though.

Hunchback:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...07275426a89acf2
Consider to swap the SL for Artemis and/or ammo for AMS.

Trebuchet:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0f12b8ed9604777
Consider to swap armor and ammo for Artemis, JJ, AMS or SL

For Heavies: The Catapults are great LRM Boats.
Jaegermech-A, Orion-M and-VA are fun as well.

Catapult C1
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f6629719035dc96
Consider to swap ammo for another Heatsink... or to swap ML for SL for another Heatsink and a full ton of AMS ammo.
Take 1-2 JJ instead of ammo.

Catapult A1
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...36fe9af61d46e4c
The classic - consider Artemis for 3 tons of ammo... I don´t think you need it though.

Jaegermech A
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...59ca70ee1ac890a
Consider to swap Tag, AMS and BAP for ammo... no secondary weaponsystem, you might want to swap ammo for an ML or SL in order to get assists if you scew up your positioning.

For Assaults: I love my Stalkers... Awesomes appear to be really good at it as well, as do the Battlemasters 1S.

Awesome 8R
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b63bd2083155336
Consider to swap ammo and ML for AMS or more ammo.

Stalker 3H (heavy and slow LRM - LRM20 though...)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6be86a33a5bb591
250 STD
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1a99ac2c4bed96a
255 XL - more ammo, less tanking.

Stalker 3F
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cbcec742102dd4b
This is not a Boat... but a nice alrounder even for CW.
300 STD - Consider smaller engine and Artemis.

Stalker 5M
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8527bd044664e0d
300 STD - This is nice Rain and good in order to get to know the maps... I suggest to use a SRM6 version, though this thing is fun...

Battlemaster 1S
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b638948a63ffa8d
275 STD - Heavy 4xLRM10


Game Modes:
LRM Boats reap great rewards if the enemy is unorganized - solo PUG is easy once you know the maps and how to position.
Against organized groups you are going to have a harder time. LRMs are easy to counter and avoid - often you have to wait for the enemy to make mistakes. If the enemy is communicating all you can do is suppress and hope for them to play into your hands.

In CW as IS LRMs are highly situational and really hard to play.
I suggest not to bring LRM Boats if you aren´t in a premade who roll with it... LRM as a secondary weapon is another thing all together (thus Clans with their light launchers can do this easily).

Your team needs the right composition for Boats in order to be able to tank enough... even then it´s hard to spend all ammo before your Wave is spend (there is a lot of ECM in CW). To my experience LRM are secondary weapons for Heavies and Assaults and a Medium boating LRM is viable - this takes practice in order to become efficient.

Right now for CW I am not fielding any LRM-Boats anymore, even though I consider myself a Lurmer.

[Void Angel]

Modo44, on 05 April 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

Also the easiest one to counter by using ECM, cover, and direct fire DPS. There is a reason LRMs have no place in competitive matches since forever.

Romeo Deluxe, on 05 April 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

My apologies I didn't know it was a discussion about competitive matches here the New Player Forums. I will bow out now.

/sigh. Pointing out that high-level competitive players almost never boat the weapon system is very relevant to the New Player Forums, because preparing new players to face the higher-level game is part of what these forums are for. Modo was entirely correct to point this out. You may reasonably argue, if you wish, that new players should still learn to use the weapons (so as to counter them) and simply realize that they will need to pick up better loadouts as they progress - but you may not reasonably throw out a pouty lip and stomp out of the room.

Modo44, on 05 April 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

LRMs lock you in low Elo because you have to rely on random factors for wins. Thus, recommending them to anyone new is a disservice to them. Unless the goal is to make noobies suck forever, in which case, great job.

As I pointed out to Pouty-Face up there, it's still useful to learn how LRM boats work - there's no better way to learn to counter them quickly. New players should simply be advised that the weapon system is practically never boated at high Elo for good reason.

Terciel1976, on 06 April 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

Well, you've been suitably and appropriately mocked for wanting to LRM, let alone in an assault, so I'll answer your question: Advanced Target Decay is required, it's very important to bring your own UAV. Everything else is taste. Don't fool yourself with Advanced Sensor Range since you can't effectively LRM beyond 800M anyway (200-500 is your sweet spot).

Advanced Sensor range is still good for partially defeating ECM if you don't have a Beagle (or if there are multiple systems in play) - the dead zone between ECM's AoE and your reduced sensor range is affected by Advaned Sensor Range and BAP. Essentially, ECM doesn't "make the equipped mech invisible to sensors" past a certain range - it reduces the effective sensor range of enemy 'mechs to a percentage of their maximum range. Thus, while the difference is small, it's still there, and can be useful in situations where your team is pushing against an ECM-equipped enemy, or stalled in close combat around low cover. (If you are not with your team to push the enemy, it's time for remedial LRM training.)

Edited by Void Angel, 06 April 2015 - 01:20 PM.

[RedEagle86]

I will put my .5 cents in on the Atlas LRM 'Boat'. Never 'boat' LRM's on an Atlas, especially the DDC. I do however have a build that I still run to this day, and have a blast doing so, that has LRM's mounted on it, but is not the primary weapon. It's more true to the 'good at all-ranges' idea. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...329d84bf5c5f10b

ALRM-20 in the 10-tube, ALRM-10 in the 6-tube, 4 ML (generally chain-fired), AC/20. You're pretty slow with only a STD 275 (you can bump it up to a 300 if you drop a couple tons of ammo and the BAP), but still effective. Works great, and the ONLY Atlas that I run LRM's on (non-trolling).

Edited by RedEagle86, 06 April 2015 - 02:05 PM.

[SethAbercromby]

I agree with the overall opinion that Asaults are a poor choice if you plan to only bring Missiles. That's what the Catapult can do extremely well for much better mobility. Also, the Stalker is a very mediocre missile boat. Many hardpoints but shoddy tube-counts.

That being said, a Stalker 3F/5S/5M with 2 LRM10s, Stalker 3H with 2 LRM20s or 4N with 1 LRM10/LRM20 are great in having long ranged indirect weapons to make up for thier slow speeds and with the possible exeption of the 3H devoting a lot of tonnage into its primary launchers, each can stil carry a large arsenal of Lasers and SRMs to operate in direct fire engagements, which you will get caught up in due to the lacking speed.

Stalker builds I like to use myself:
- Deviation from the 'classic' 4LL Meta 4N by adding an LRM20 to the arsenal ('classic' as in pre-quirk and before the increase of the LL ghost heat limit)
- Retrofit 5S (Dual AMS edition)
- Super Stock 3H

[JC Daxion]

For me personally if i feel like playing with LRM's i have 2 goto mechs.. for heavies i run catapults, and assaults i run stalkers. Hear the mediums trebutche's are nice, and the HBK 4J,. I used to run a wolverine with LRM's but they got quirked to SRM's, so i need to find a new goto LRM medium mech. Most likely will try the 4J, just because i already have 3 already, and it will be an easy grind to master.

If you wanna try a light, the Raven 2X can do it pretty well. . For me the cat and stalkers are a lot of fun. But contrary to popular belief even LRM mechs can move up into battle front line range, and brawl. Sure they have a min damage of 180m, But when you are in brawls, they do spread a bit, and you can just target people on the other side of a big brawl circle. In fact, the best use of LRM's in my book are around 225m, Just behind brawlers tossing missiles over them, and popping with Direct fire weapons in moments of opertunity, You can even get closer, like in the case of stalkers, were you can also have say a Pair of SRM's and some ML's. Move up inside the 180 range and soak some damage, and then drop back out.. Firing off some close SRM-rounds, with some Lasers, and backing up to dump of 20-30-40 missiles can really just wreck a mech.

As some have said, LRM's can be a bit of luck on some matches, and others they can be a lot of fun, but that's a lot of mechs anyway, Get your super hot laser boat on terra and it is rough, but drop on frozen city and have a blast!. I'll take a good lrm mech on my team verse some meta mech not played well, especially in the pug world. I often play brawlers, and nothing i love more than getting up close and personal while racks of LRM's are wailing my target as i dance with the enemy and pop any hole that opens with a large auto cannon. Which is always better than getting pegged in the back/side with what ever direct fire weapon someone decides not to wait as i pass in between them.


Advanced Decay module is a must, and bringing your own tag is very helpful, and it isn't a bad idea to try to squeeze in BAP, though i typically carry tag, OR bap, not both. Seismic sensor is also a good idea, as in an LRM mech, you can stop moving a bit more often, and it really helps on pushes when coming to a cover, stop a min, see if you get any reading, it can let you know how many are close by, or if you should back up a bit, so you are in optimal LRM range


Here are a couple of stalkers you might wanna try.

Stalker 5M, This one has an SRM quirk, so makes for a pretty hard hitting mech when up close, Runs dual 10's for when you are out of SRM range, or closing

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e71660f874b0625


the 4H, This one has a LRM 20 quirk, but they are pretty heavy, and only gain a 10% boost, so not a huge difference, but worth trying both i suppose if you don't mind buying some extra launchers. But built like this it plays kinda like a Fat catapult, You basically get some extra SRM goodness, on top of 4 energy+ LRM 15's of the Cat C1.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6b8d369407eda65

Both are using an STD310, so a 65KPH assault isn't to bad. I run STD300's in them but i need to upgrade to tweak a bit extra speed. I typically don't use the slower engines, it is a space/size thing, where if you drop down bellow 300, you really have to go pretty low, like a 260 and drop endo, so you can get enough space to add the extra equipment, they just slow down to much.

If you are enjoying them, by all means keep playing um, they can be fun, and if it means puging at certain ELO's, well so be it!

Edited by JC Daxion, 06 April 2015 - 05:07 PM.

[Tesunie]

Terciel1976, on 06 April 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

Well, you've been suitably and appropriately mocked for wanting to LRM, let alone in an assault, so I'll answer your question: Advanced Target Decay is required, it's very important to bring your own UAV. Everything else is taste. Don't fool yourself with Advanced Sensor Range since you can't effectively LRM beyond 800M anyway (200-500 is your sweet spot).

Advanced Sensor Range can have it's place. It helps against ECM to some extent, and can help spot, even if they are too far away for your LRMs to properly hit (but can still be used to scare the target if you have the ammo). Is it a must have? I have to agree with you that it isn't. Seismic is also a good choice as well.

Terciel1976, on 06 April 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Pre-quirks, one ton per 5 tubes plus a little was a good rule of thumb. Heavily quirked LRM mechs eat much more (my HBK-4J carries nine tons for 20 tubes and sometimes runs out).

My Hunchback 4J seems to be able to run on much less ammo... Then again, I seem to run most all of my LRM mechs with much less ammo than the average. I am selective of my LRM fire, and tend to only shoot when I feel the LRMs will hit, wasting less ammo overall. I also have enough room saved for a fairly significant direct fire weapon payload, as I'm always pushing the front line personally.

[Tylerchu]

In all honesty LRM boating was probItably the worst thing I have ever done in my MW:O career. It encourages timidity and "cowardness" as well as the hanging-back syndrome like everyone else is describing. In all honesty, it's better for you to bite the bullet and get yourself a laser-based build with some SRM or autocannons to complement it. But if you must take an LRM boat, I would suggest the Awesome. Just because.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Void Angel, on 06 April 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

counter them) and simply realize that they will need to pick up better loadouts as they progress - but you may not reasonably throw out a pouty lip and stomp out of the room.

No pouty face here, I already gave my advice and he came here with his "you're all idiots, listen to my l33tness". My advice is up there and on topic. Perhaps I should have thrown in a /sarcasm there at the end.

I was mocking him.

Addendum to my advice posts: people say Advanced Sensor Range is not the best. However, consider this if you like to plan ahead where the enemy is and where you want to position yourself. Since I'm used to running around with lights, I always rely on my own scouting over expecting/hoping someone else will do it for the match team.

Edited by Romeo Deluxe, 07 April 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Tylerchu, on 06 April 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

In all honesty LRM boating was probItably the worst thing I have ever done in my MW:O career. It encourages timidity and "cowardness" as well as the hanging-back syndrome like everyone else is describing. In all honesty, it's better for you to bite the bullet and get yourself a laser-based build with some SRM or autocannons to complement it. But if you must take an LRM boat, I would suggest the Awesome. Just because.

Yes it does do this but if you read the advice repeated over and over it's 1) spot for yourself 2) engage at X range; X being 200m to 500m, different people gave different X. This is not timid playing, it's how to do it effectively.

You should try one again, call it goofing off time like I did.

[BIoB]

A slightly different take on the Awesome-8R build.....some would say a slightly less optimal build, but its the one I pug'd in for hundreds of games.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...47ffc18b7c1b4bb

[SethAbercromby]

Terciel1976, on 06 April 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Pre-quirks, one ton per 5 tubes plus a little was a good rule of thumb. Heavily quirked LRM mechs eat much more (my HBK-4J carries nine tons for 20 tubes and sometimes runs out).

Chiming in on Tesunie's argument, what I usually go with is 1 ton per LRM 5 or 10 (5s are very ammo hungry, but above that they are much more ammo efficient (without specific quirks that is)) 1.5 tons per LRM15 and 2 tons per LRM20 plus some change, usually one ton extra for every two launchers when I have some tonnage left. That is because I want my 'Mechs at least somewhat effective at short range, so I have some varied direct fire weapons at my disposal. For my Stalkers see above, my Catapult C4 (one extra ton of ammo to compensate for the quirks) can turn to Jump-brawling which is surprisingly effective thanks to it's wide arm twist range. The complete ammo-dependancy gives it a disadvantage in attrition though.

[Peter2k]

alby910, on 05 April 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Hi

I would like to know which are the best MECH modules for an LRM Boat . Also which are the best Assault Mechs for an LRM boat . Catapults are fine however they can't carry much ammo

Thanks

I would recommend Stalkers
they're good at other things than LRM's as well
and they have a Hero version that is useful/good

Stalkers are also useful in CW, well definitely more than say Awesomes

so Stalkers gives you a good chassis with good Hardpoints to level up 3 chassis and a good Hero if you ever want that one
Battlemasters could be fine

though I find that Stalkers do the trick a bit better
and don't use XL with Stalkers

on mods
Target decay, Sensor range, BAP
in that order
if you can't/won't squeeze a BAP into your build, at least sensor range will do something for you
thats why I put BAP in there
though remember the counter to ecm from BAP
target decay kind of counters target deprivation
seismic might be nice that you don't get sneaked up on

Romeo Deluxe, on 06 April 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

...and this is why your own line of sight is the best bet. You can see before your missiles even arrive if they are going to hit or the opponent is hiding under the bed sheets.

sure, but it gets you killed so fast at higher ELO ranges then you could not believe, or CW
guess could be good when you drop in solo que
but I swear when I drop solo I drop with Heimdelight and the like on the other side

Stalkers let you at least use weapons that are mounted high up

Edited by Peter2k, 07 April 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Romeo Deluxe]

I have no idea what your saying. ELO?

[Barkem Squirrel]

Romeo Deluxe, on 07 April 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

I have no idea what your saying. ELO?

The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in competitor-versus-competitor games such as chess. It is named after its creator Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-born American physics professor.

http://en.wikipedia....o_rating_system

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 07 April 2015 - 05:57 AM.

[Nightmare1]

alby910, on 05 April 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Hi

I would like to know which are the best MECH modules for an LRM Boat . Also which are the best Assault Mechs for an LRM boat . Catapults are fine however they can't carry much ammo

Thanks

For Assault Mechs, I really like the Battlemaster 1S. It makes a mean LRM Mech!

This is how I built it (Smurfy Link):

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...32b76afad297d8a

As for modules, I recommend Advanced Sensor Range and Advanced Targeting Decay. For Weapon modules, definitely get the appropriate LRM modules and a Narc module if you use it. I like to add in the ML Cooldown module on my BLR to help me fight up close.

Footage:

Edited by Nightmare1, 07 April 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[Hannibal Chow]

Catapult - A1; 6x LRM5 with artemis , 2x Class 3 Jump Jets , 1x Beagle Active Probe , 13 and 1/2 tons of ammo , XL255 Engine.

Modules; Advanced Target Decay , Advanced Sensor Range , LRM5 Range , LRM5 Cooldown , UAV , Air/Arty Strike.

Standard Armour , Endo Steel Structure and Artemis.

Set all 6 to chainfire on Mouse 1 and alpha on Mouse 2.

Welcome to Spam Cat

Avoid the combat front line and spam away.