167 replies to this topic

[Bigbacon]

you can do a maddog with 5xLMR10s, 2 ML, Narc and plenty of ammo. can alpha that twice and stream them as needed..

stay with teammates, narc stuff, and fire. Just don't LRM at 500m+ targets unless you know that are stuck in the open.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4c742e8d80520c4

Edited by Bigbacon, 07 April 2015 - 07:25 AM.

[Mercer Skye]

Okay, so first question was; Which modules are best.

So, under the assumption that you're going to acquire these, and don't have them already;

Target Decay
Sensor Range
Radar Derp (For LRM dueling) or Target Info Gathering (Because you pack lighter direct fire, you REALLY need to know where to shoot)
Missile Cooldowns
Secondary weapon Range/CD boosts

Now, I'd seriously reconsider the idea of straight up boating LRMS (Understand that Missiles as a primary system is NOT boating, and a lot of people get confused on that). So, I'm going to assume that you want to use missiles as a PRIMARY weapon and not a BOATED weapon.

Some builds;

LRM-Master (BLR-1S) This is a more forgiving LRM build, and my suggested 'learner comp.' This is the 'boat' you use when first starting to learn the maps, how to properly use cover, and how to stay close enough to your group to be more than 'that guy' hanging out a click back lobbing ineffective salvos over everyone's head. While the best missile users can keep in line of sight of the enemy to properly use Artemis, there are times where you need to hunker down behind a nice cozy rock and just throw supporting fire into the enemy line.

Weapon Grouping; One grouping for arm launchers, one grouping for chest launchers, and one grouping for all launchers on chain fire. When you get into a situation where you can just go ham on lobbing missiles, you can fire the first two groups with a one second pause, and just hold down the 'all group' button and avoid ghost heat for the most part. One grouping for the medium lasers should be fine (That Pulse is in there to make up for lack of a fourth because of Tag). And obviously, you need the sixth grouping for the Tag.

Punisher (BLR-1S) Now that you've figured out how to properly use cover, we streamline the tube count (From 40 to 30), and provide a better brawl package. This is probably where you swap from the Target Info Gathering module into the Radar Derp, now that you can put a bit more punch into your close firing weapon systems. Now you've come to the point where you can get out of cover, throw a well streamed salvo into an enemy, and fade away. Pulse lasers and a pair of streaks seriously punish any light foolish enough to think that you're just a regular ol' missile boating Assault Noob.

Weapon Grouping; One for LA, one for RA, one for Tag, One for Lasers on chain, One for all lasers, one for Streaks.

Slingshot (CPLT - C1) Now that you've gotten used to how to 'boat' with the forgiving armor of an assault, I now suggest you step down into 'mechs that are more properly suited to being missile 'mechs. The A1 is very popular Catapult, but I much prefer the simplicity and more rounded weapon package of the C1. It also has the advantage that it's missile package is very similar to the 'Punisher' BLR build you just stepped away from. LRM 15s are easily the best IS launcher, and with artemis, they are quite deadly. The Catapult, near as I can tell, has some of the best firing arcs, so you can make much better use of cover when needed, and with Jump Jets, you can get into much better 'sniper' positions on some maps that the BLR just is not privy to. Granted, 9 tons of ammo might be a bit much for just 2 launchers, but I've honestly never had much problem burning through all but a ton and some change, and have had on more than one occasion only one or two salvos left in the tubes at the end of a match. Can't honestly remember the last time I went dry, but if you're finding more than a couple tons of ammo left at the end of matches, you can always drop 2-3 tons of ammo, and bump the MLas's up to Pulses, I wouldn't necessarily bump the engine up, as ~70kph is about the perfect speed for a missile 'mech, since you're likely not outrunning lights/mediums anyway, and a little more speed isn't really getting you away from other Heavies or Assaults fast enough to make much difference.

Spartan (GRF-1N) Now, you REALLY want to show off your missile prowess. One launcher, and enough close range weaponry to rip open the internals of sections you've stripped the armor off with your LRMs. You can always drop the engine rating down, and put some more ammo or 'oomph' into the build, but this thing seriously wrecks face as is. Precise missile placements from out of nowhere, and fading back into cover, Medium Lasers and a pair of streaks for crippling/killing lights and eating up internal structure, and you're fast enough to move from lobbing LRMs to spotting for LRMs.

No lights? My honest opinion is that while there are quite a few fun builds you can do for lights (in the IS anyway) that use LRMs as a primary system, it's really just trolling your team to do so. Now, you can easily make lights that take advantage of LRMs as a secondary system, which is fine, but I just don't think they're capable of using them as a primary system (Shy of the Oxide, maybe, but it's honestly better as a Streak or SRM boat)

Edited by Mercer Skye, 07 April 2015 - 08:01 AM.

[Tesunie]

On the suggestion of the Battlemaster 1S, I actually "tested" between a Stalker 3F and the Battlemaster 1S by using very similar builds. I found that the Stalker 3F preformed better (for me) than the Battlemaster did. Between hit boxes, weapon locations, twisting (for the 3F I should mention), etc. I tended to survive longer and preform better in my 3F matches.

Take that as whichever way you want. I'm just saying my results between the two (and yes, each chassis was Mastered during the test).

Irish BoB, on 07 April 2015 - 02:19 AM, said:

A slightly different take on the Awesome-8R build.....some would say a slightly less optimal build, but its the one I pug'd in for hundreds of games.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...47ffc18b7c1b4bb

Not to bad, but I do find that your close range weapons are a little light for my preference if I was to drive your mech around.

It's less boaty on the LMRs (by 20 tubes), but I'd probably be more likely to run something like this. Of course, I haven't tested out the heat on weapons fire or anything, so it would be subject to change. I'd be removing the ERLL for something with a bit less range and more punch because I'd have the LRMs for my ranged combat. I've also found that dual LPLs can be very effective.

Just my two c-bills I'd add to your build. Take or leave it as you will.

SethAbercromby, on 07 April 2015 - 02:22 AM, said:

Chiming in on Tesunie's argument, what I usually go with is 1 ton per LRM 5 or 10 (5s are very ammo hungry, but above that they are much more ammo efficient (without specific quirks that is)) 1.5 tons per LRM15 and 2 tons per LRM20 plus some change, usually one ton extra for every two launchers when I have some tonnage left. That is because I want my 'Mechs at least somewhat effective at short range, so I have some varied direct fire weapons at my disposal. For my Stalkers see above, my Catapult C4 (one extra ton of ammo to compensate for the quirks) can turn to Jump-brawling which is surprisingly effective thanks to it's wide arm twist range. The complete ammo-dependancy gives it a disadvantage in attrition though.

For me, this depends upon the mech, what I intend to do with it, and how often I find myself running out of ammo/running hot/etc. I tend to run 1 ton ammo for every 5 tubes of LRMs, if I can. I have some builds with a single LRM10 with two tons of ammo because I found one ton of ammo was being depleted before I died/end of match, and others with two LRM 15s with 4 tons+ of ammo. Thing with my LRMs, I use them more as a weapon as I approach the enemy, to deal damage and support the team as I wade into visual line of sight to be able to shoot my direct fire weapons. My goal is to run out of ammo dealing as much damage as I can with that weapon before I die or the match ends. I try to set up my ammo counts to last most of the match. My 4J example can/does run dry from time to time, but 5 med lasers I find is more than enough to finish off targets at that point.

How you design a mech often depends upon what you intend to do with it. My Stalker 3F is more designed as a guard than an LRM boat (I tend not to boat LRMs anyway). My Enforcers are typically designed as fast strikers, hit and fade away. The weapons reflect this role. Sometimes, you don't have to boat a weapon to be effective.

[Koniving]

Terciel1976, on 06 April 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Pre-quirks, one ton per 5 tubes plus a little was a good rule of thumb. Heavily quirked LRM mechs eat much more (my HBK-4J carries nine tons for 20 tubes and sometimes runs out).

Don't spend as much.

6 tons of LRMs can be more than enough for 4 kills. More if you let other people soften them up a bit though ideally the LRM user should be doing the softening.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Pointing out that high-level competitive players almost never boat the weapon system is very relevant to the New Player Forums, because preparing new players to face the higher-level game is part of what these forums are for."

Do you really think new players are going to face comp play in their first few months? I've been here 4 months and LRMs are still very effective at my level of play. Sure, I've moved on to pulse and gauss, but running LRMs taught me a lot about the game, and kept me from getting killed in the first few minutes - the longer you stay alive, the more you learn.

What I *do* know about LRMs is that I don't know how to really use them. Sure, anyone can hop in a game and spread 900 damage all over everything without killing it. But I've seen some experts really own people (even vets) with LRMs. There is a depth to it that most don't understand or appreciate, and its more complex than point-n-click lasers.

So I think the usual "LRMs are dumb, don't bother" advise is wrong. And I suspect is somewhat motivated by vets who are tired of diving for cover when they hear the incoming missile warning.

At the meta? Sure, not very effective against elite players. Do you think the new guy will be joining the likes of 228 anytime soon?

[TercieI]

Koniving, on 07 April 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

Don't spend as much.

6 tons of LRMs can be more than enough for 4 kills. More if you let other people soften them up a bit though ideally the LRM user should be doing the softening.

Have you seen how fast the 4J spits LRM ammo? I've caught DWFs alone and solo'd them down in thirty seconds. But that still burned off two tons. Nine goes fast with targets. And if there's one rule of solo queue it's that you can never rely on your teammates.

[Tesunie]

Terciel1976, on 07 April 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

Have you seen how fast the 4J spits LRM ammo? I've caught DWFs alone and solo'd them down in thirty seconds. But that still burned off two tons. Nine goes fast with targets. And if there's one rule of solo queue it's that you can never rely on your teammates.

And as you've stated, you can never(rarely) rely on your teammates. Personally, with that statement, there is a reason I'd rather take 3 tons and add in additional close range weapons (such as 3 additional med lasers). When the fighting gets close, I'd rather have enough fight still left in me for some "precise laser surgery" to take advantage of any openings. (I can also always charge in for some close work if/when I run out of ammo.)

Then again, a lot of that is up to preference. Do what works for you.

[Deathz Jester]

You weren't trying hard enough if you think the catapult couldn't hold enough ammo


CPLT-C1


15 tons of ammo if you're into whoring.


personally I use 2 large lasers, 2 medium lasers and 2 lrm 15s.

[TercieI]

Tesunie, on 07 April 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

And as you've stated, you can never(rarely) rely on your teammates. Personally, with that statement, there is a reason I'd rather take 3 tons and add in additional close range weapons (such as 3 additional med lasers). When the fighting gets close, I'd rather have enough fight still left in me for some "precise laser surgery" to take advantage of any openings. (I can also always charge in for some close work if/when I run out of ammo.)

Then again, a lot of that is up to preference. Do what works for you.

I actually stole JMan's build and run 5SL as my backup. Works surprisingly well. Preference, as you say.

Edited by Terciel1976, 07 April 2015 - 08:48 AM.

[Tesunie]

Terciel1976, on 07 April 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

I actually stole JMan's build and run 5SL as my backup. Works surprisingly well.

Is it stealing if it's given to you? (Or did you actually steal it? )

I can see that working. The Sm lasers threaten anyone who gets within LRM ranges. Don't think it would work for me or that I'd like it personally though. But that's very valid.

[TercieI]

Tesunie, on 07 April 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

Is it stealing if it's given to you? (Or did you actually steal it? )

I can see that working. The Sm lasers threaten anyone who gets within LRM ranges. Don't think it would work for me or that I'd like it personally though. But that's very valid.

Lol. Fair nuff. He put it in the forums. I use the LRMs primarily as direct fire and the SLs at need. I didn't think I'd like it either, but he's the best HBK pilot in the game and I'd seen him wreck in it a few times.

[SethAbercromby]

Tesunie, on 07 April 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

For me, this depends upon the mech, what I intend to do with it, and how often I find myself running out of ammo/running hot/etc. I tend to run 1 ton ammo for every 5 tubes of LRMs, if I can. I have some builds with a single LRM10 with two tons of ammo because I found one ton of ammo was being depleted before I died/end of match, and others with two LRM 15s with 4 tons+ of ammo. Thing with my LRMs, I use them more as a weapon as I approach the enemy, to deal damage and support the team as I wade into visual line of sight to be able to shoot my direct fire weapons. My goal is to run out of ammo dealing as much damage as I can with that weapon before I die or the match ends. I try to set up my ammo counts to last most of the match. My 4J example can/does run dry from time to time, but 5 med lasers I find is more than enough to finish off targets at that point.

It very much depends on what you do with them really, but I personally use very little LRM ammo on most 'Mechs. As you say, I treat it as a gap-closing tool and occasional suppression fire to scare the whales. Otherwise, I tend to prefer getting a little more personal and at an engagement distance of 300-400m a brawl is really just two medium lasers ahead.

[Void Angel]

Fenrisulvyn, on 07 April 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

"Pointing out that high-level competitive players almost never boat the weapon system is very relevant to the New Player Forums, because preparing new players to face the higher-level game is part of what these forums are for."

Do you really think new players are going to face comp play in their first few months? I've been here 4 months and LRMs are still very effective at my level of play. Sure, I've moved on to pulse and gauss, but running LRMs taught me a lot about the game, and kept me from getting killed in the first few minutes - the longer you stay alive, the more you learn.

Read the rest of my post, please.

Romeo Deluxe, on 07 April 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

I have no idea what your saying. ELO?

Barkem Squirrel, on 07 April 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in competitor-versus-competitor games such as chess. It is named after its creator Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-born American physics professor.

http://en.wikipedia....o_rating_system

And it is Not An Acronym! =)

[Void Angel]

Mercer Skye, on 07 April 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

Now, I'd seriously reconsider the idea of straight up boating LRMS (Understand that Missiles as a primary system is NOT boating, and a lot of people get confused on that). So, I'm going to assume that you want to use missiles as a PRIMARY weapon and not a BOATED weapon.

Well, you're ok in theory, but some of the builds you listed are indeed boats - simply having some non-LRM weapons doesn't make the build "not boating." "Boating" weapons means devoting the vast majority of your tonnage to using them, not necessarily all of your tonnage. My Battlemaster 1S missile boat is very close to yours, for example - it has three medium lasers for emergency defense - and it's still a boat. To not be a boat, as the term is almost universally used, I'd have to take some significant (even if inferior) secondary arms, like a couple of Large Lasers. That would allow me non-trivial firepower in addition to my missiles - Something Like This, for example.

This is difficult for many chassis to do, and may not even be a good idea - additional LRMs scale with progressive returns, and smaller launchers can be completely neutralized if people on the enemy team have "vaccinated their dang 'mechs" with AMS (vaccinate your 'mechs, people!) So forgoing additional launchers while using LRMs as a primary system is disadvised, and many 'mechs risk bringing too little ammunition if they opt for significant secondary arms. Regardless, splashing Less Firepower Than A Locust onto an 85-ton BattleMech doesn't get us out of being missile boats.

Edited by Void Angel, 07 April 2015 - 01:13 PM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Void Angel, on 07 April 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

This is difficult for many chassis to do, and may not even be a good idea - additional LRMs scale with progressive returns, and smaller launchers can be completely neutralized if people on the enemy team have "vaccinated their dang 'mechs" with AMS (vaccinate your 'mechs, people!)

Shhhh...

We do not want this to get out. 2 or 3 of them around a target can just wreck an LRM boaters day. I even change targets when I see this. One other option is radar deprivation and you would think by now everyone would be running with it. The sad state of affairs is nope, people are not using it.

[Void Angel]

Barkem Squirrel, on 07 April 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

Shhhh...

We do not want this to get out. 2 or 3 of them around a target can just wreck an LRM boaters day. I even change targets when I see this. One other option is radar deprivation and you would think by now everyone would be running with it. The sad state of affairs is nope, people are not using it.

Are you an AMS-truther, Barkem Squirrel? You're the reason we have 'mech Measles outbreaks in this day and age!

[ExoForce]

Fenrisulvyn, on 07 April 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

"Pointing out that high-level competitive players almost never boat the weapon system is very relevant to the New Player Forums, because preparing new players to face the higher-level game is part of what these forums are for."

Do you really think new players are going to face comp play in their first few months? I've been here 4 months and LRMs are still very effective at my level of play. Sure, I've moved on to pulse and gauss, but running LRMs taught me a lot about the game, and kept me from getting killed in the first few minutes - the longer you stay alive, the more you learn.

What I *do* know about LRMs is that I don't know how to really use them. Sure, anyone can hop in a game and spread 900 damage all over everything without killing it. But I've seen some experts really own people (even vets) with LRMs. There is a depth to it that most don't understand or appreciate, and its more complex than point-n-click lasers.

So I think the usual "LRMs are dumb, don't bother" advise is wrong. And I suspect is somewhat motivated by vets who are tired of diving for cover when they hear the incoming missile warning.

At the meta? Sure, not very effective against elite players. Do you think the new guy will be joining the likes of 228 anytime soon?

I approve every single word. New player needs fun in the first place, to stay in the game.

I have 3000 + matches in LRM boat and I still havent seen all...

[Barkem Squirrel]

Void Angel, on 07 April 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

Are you an AMS-truther, Barkem Squirrel? You're the reason we have 'mech Measles outbreaks in this day and age!

I always run AMS, and most of the time radar deprivation. If you live by the LRM, try not to die by the LRM. It's a bit embarrassing. Those of us that can remember the images of 4 or so mechs per team firing chains of LRMs across the skies have a habit of keeping to cover. Then ECM came out and LRMs disappeared for the first quarter of 2013.

Going toe to toe with an LRM warhawk is fun in a Treb 7M. No TAG, Artemis, CAP (or BAP) or Targeting computers. Just think how fast you can get target lock in a battlemaster with target info gathering, BAP, Artemis, TAG, and the Command console. You will be hitting them before they even get a lock, if you are lucky maybe hitting them with 3 vollies before they return fire or start to run a way.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 07 April 2015 - 10:20 PM.

[Will HellFire]

For New Pilots:

You have to understand that LRMs are a very poor way of using your tonnage: Unless you have a direct LoS and shoot them at 200-300m, most of your missiles will not hit. When they do, they spread all the damage around, being a very ineffective way of killing your enemy.

Furthermore, and even worse, it seems that most people believe that sitting back, using the teammates locks and shooting missiles from 800m is a good idea. It is not. Doing this will stop you from learning valuable skills like moving, positiong, advancing as a group, charging, flanking, aiming ACs, aiming at components and a myriad others; while it will encourage bad habits.

LRMs are a support weapon, designed to complement an array of primary weapons Take a few tubes, use them while you close on your enemy. Even then, the tonnage you spend on them would be better spent on other weapon systems, or heatsinks. Ex: LRM10 at 5 tons+ammo could be better spend on a Large Laser+Heatsinks: same damage, good range, and you control where you are putting that damage instead of spreading it all over the enemy Mech.

These are reasons while LRMs are never used in competitive play, and even if you as a new player have to try all the weapons and find your own way to play, you should know which weapons and why are considered to be superior or inferior. This is valuable information.

When a group of veterans engage the enemy and they see lots of LRMs flying, the chuckles and confidence are all over the channel. Because they know this poor way of using your tonnage, with extreme limitations in range and innefective way of dealing damage, and they know the ways to counter them, close on you and get easy kills.

If you want to win matches and get to be a better pilot, please consider them as a low-tier weapon for fun uses only.

Edited by Will HellFire, 08 April 2015 - 05:22 AM.

[YCSLiesmith]

Fenrisulvyn, on 07 April 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

"Pointing out that high-level competitive players almost never boat the weapon system is very relevant to the New Player Forums, because preparing new players to face the higher-level game is part of what these forums are for."

Do you really think new players are going to face comp play in their first few months? I've been here 4 months and LRMs are still very effective at my level of play. Sure, I've moved on to pulse and gauss, but running LRMs taught me a lot about the game, and kept me from getting killed in the first few minutes - the longer you stay alive, the more you learn.

What I *do* know about LRMs is that I don't know how to really use them. Sure, anyone can hop in a game and spread 900 damage all over everything without killing it. But I've seen some experts really own people (even vets) with LRMs. There is a depth to it that most don't understand or appreciate, and its more complex than point-n-click lasers.

So I think the usual "LRMs are dumb, don't bother" advise is wrong. And I suspect is somewhat motivated by vets who are tired of diving for cover when they hear the incoming missile warning.

At the meta? Sure, not very effective against elite players. Do you think the new guy will be joining the likes of 228 anytime soon?

this post is crazy. you say you aren't expert, so everyone should disregard the advice of the people who are expert? LRMs are a blind alley that leads to a wall that can't be scaled. you become the best player on earth with LRMs and you'll still be bad, because LRMs are cripplingly bad. It's totally reasonable to tell people not to use LRMs from the get-go, because they will teach them bad habits and cripple their ability to get better at this game.