167 replies to this topic

[Hobotorius Augustus Kerensky]

I really hope the OP enjoys playing MWO however they play but it isn't exactly an opinion that LRMs are bad. Whenever my unit goes up against a team where we see LRMs we laugh since it means easy kills and cbills for us as they are running unoptimized builds and generally speaking are lower skill. With some weapon systems you can easily point it out as a decisive factor in the match - we've ran into a wall of lasers and gauss before and it's like well those kinda wrecked us guys! With LRMs it's never the case - they can be easily suppressed, and once we are in close it's decidedly clear they would have been better off with SRMs or a another alternative.

[YCSLiesmith]

Stingray1234, on 09 April 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

It always comes back to the same thing. It's the pilot, not the mech. Some of the best pilots can make "opinioned" week mechs stomp on other mechs. And everyone has a different play style.

Oh, and good games there tractor joe. If I see you in a match, I'll for sure be lookin' for rocks to hide behind

yes, if I'm vastly better than you then I could probably win 9 out of 10 matches with flamers and machine guns. this doesn't actually mean that flamers and machine guns are a good choice for games.

it's like if I'm an asthmatic kid but im rich and hire the best trainers and take steroids and end up playing pro football. would you say 'wow, asthmatic kids are just as good at football as everyone else, this is proof?' or would you say 'damn rich steroid users can overcome some pretty serious handicaps!'

[YCSLiesmith]

JC Daxion, on 09 April 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

But i know i've watched LRM's open holes on a mech i have been brawling in my 4G, and i get the one shot pop.. In fact, my 4G, is my best one shot mech.. something about it, thing gets 4 kills and around 225-250 all the time, open hole specialist, and often it's due to LRM's making them

im sorry I missed this before are you talking about 225-250 damage? per match?

[Musashi Alexander]

I'm struggling to understand why some feel that to try to use LRMs effectively means you are in 'one camp' and therefore will be forever barred from playing other weapons well or other styles? This is complete nonsense. There is nothing wrong with playing LRMs. Not every match is a competition level, high elo match. Sometimes people are just playing, grinding cbills. Sometimes they want a change up. I've played over 15000 matches and if I'd had to play each one in the absolute, most effective meta builds I'd have quit the game by now. Variety is the spice of life.

You can be very good with LRMs and you can be very bad. I've been both. Let this new guy take some good advice on how to play LRMs more effectively and try to enjoy the game.

My own view is try to avoid Assault LRM boats, stay lighter, be more mobile. Rely on yourself with BAP, TAG and LOS. Watch your position at all times and look for ways to support your team - suppressing fire, deterring flankers, denying alleys of attack, support mechs in need where you can. Most of all, I'd advise you to play the game in the way you can get the most enjoyment out of it.

[-Wulf-]

WOW, LMFAO nice thread its now time for me to voice up as a TOP 10 LEADERBOARD missile boat pilot .

Simply put the best LRM mechs in the game are actually the medium class. Its a simple matter of numbers and consistant performance. Speed, ammo load, and quirks. Assault missile boats are situational at best, its a matter of movement speed to keep yourself at optimal range.

Why do I stress movement well its simple. When your missile heavy people rush you to get inside your optimal range. This equals death for a missile boat. But if you can move they have a much harder time trying to close on you. Plus a good boat pilot knows you dont just post up and lob missiles you gotta stay mobile, shoot and scoot. You can run and keep the flights flying.

Ok as you may have well known the QQing and LRM's not optimal post run rampant, I beg to differ I am Falkwulf of Clan Smoke Jays, I run ultra high ELO (SJx,DOM,EMP,Lord) and I bring missiles to the comp scene Check the MRBC LOL. I run a KINTARO 18 5x5 thats 5 LRM 5's with 10 tons of ammo that is a full 2 minutes 43 seconds of constant LRM rain . I regularly put up 900 damage games, and have personally lurmed virtually every one on this thread. (Yes I memorize names.)

Now for the meat and potatoes of this, OP Stalkers, and Awesomes are big bulky good boats, however they are slow, Go for something faster, good starter boat is the Hunchback 4J, It can move, it can stream 2 count them 2 LRM 10's faster than the Stalker or Awesome can fire 15's.

As for the missile hate its going to happen especially when you get skilled at using them correctly. Dont listen to it. the COD warriors who feel that the LRM's are crap really hasnt invested the time to learn the nuances of them.

I could go on but thats not what this thread is about so here is my personal list of LRM mechs the ones that I have invested TIME in.

1.) Kintaro 18, Kintaro Golden Boy. LRM 5 quirks are killer Chain them the stream really screen shakes the hell out of people

2.) Hunchback 4J LRM 10 ultra fast firing Chain them to keep the stream

3.) Catapult's A1 is nasty with 4 LRM 5's chained with 9 tons of ammo.

4.) Stalker 3H its fair but the quirks keep changing and its slow as SLOW can get.

5.) Awesome 8T it hits hard but is slow and suffers from BARN DOOR SYNDROME.

Honorable Mention is the Stormcrow D clan NARC is good.

There you have it from an ACCOMPLISHED missile boat pilot. as far as ELO is concerned I find it easier to kill in the higher ELO brackets with LRM's since most players in my ELO bracket I face are META Tards. Since LRM's have been regulated to the LOWER ELO and everything is CHEESE builds, The ULTRA ELO comp players disregaurd AMS in favor of heavier weapons loadout. They rarely face LRM's and when they do, they freak out and scatter breaking lines and formations. Then my unit marches in and starts mopping up.

High ELO players and COMP droppers are not accustomed to dealing with LRM's anymore not in thier elo bracket where GAUSS is KING in thier minds until they get the infamous "Warning Incomming Missile" Remeber LRMS are a great gauss equalizer. and I love the QQing and crying about them when they get WREKT, all I can say is GGCLOSE.

Now argue with me, about how inefficient LRM's are.

Edited by Falkwulf, 09 April 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[Musashi Alexander]

YCSLiesmith, on 09 April 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

What, precisely, does this mean? people keep saying it. when you're Just Playing, do you want to lose or win? do you play differently from one match to another? does being in CW or some kind of tournament evoke some sort of seriousness in you that is usually absent?

because my unit just plays, laughs at good plays we make or at bad players we face, laughs with cool people having a good time. We win because winning is fun and losing is not. How is it that you have so much fun losing that fun is defined by losing, that fun and winning have become mutually exclusive?

Sometimes when you play as a Pug, what mech you bring in isn't the ultimate determinant of the outcome of the match. Pug games just usually go either way - maybe if I never brought LRMs I would have won every one of those 12000 pug matches? If that's your line of argumentation then I'd need some convincing. In any case, when I pug, I don't equate LRMs with losing, far from it.

And sometimes, depending on my mood, I don't really care whether I win, lose or draw.

However, when I do group up in anything approaching competitive play or play CW, I tend to follow a more strict line in terms of the builds I use. Ultimately, in team based play we all have to play a role. When playing as a team you need to follow instructions and ensure your build complements what the DC is trying to achieve. In very few cases does that include LRMs.

It is possible to enjoy this game in different ways.

[YCSLiesmith]

Musashi Alexander, on 09 April 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

Sometimes when you play as a Pug, what mech you bring in isn't the ultimate determinant of the outcome of the match. Pug games just usually go either way - maybe if I never brought LRMs I would have won every one of those 12000 pug matches? If that's your line of argumentation then I'd need some convincing. In any case, when I pug, I don't equate LRMs with losing, far from it.

And sometimes, depending on my mood, I don't really care whether I win, lose or draw.

However, when I do group up in anything approaching competitive play or play CW, I tend to follow a more strict line in terms of the builds I use. Ultimately, in team based play we all have to play a role. When playing as a team you need to follow instructions and ensure your build complements what the DC is trying to achieve. In very few cases does that include LRMs.

It is possible to enjoy this game in different ways.

Again I struggle to understand what you're talking about. its true, sometimes your loadout doesn't matter. for example if you die in the first two minutes because you turned a blind corner and ran into three daishis and a madcat, your exact loadout doesn't really come into it.

and sure, if you're on a team with a bunch of anchors then the odds of you personally winning the match go down. Similarly if I drop with 228's comp team I'm gonna be on the winning side no matter what I bring because their skill will outweigh my own impact completely.

but, in the event that you actually, you know, get to play, your choices make a difference. and i personally prefer when that difference is a positive one, win or lose. if I say 'I played well, contributed to the team, win or lose I wasn't dragging others down' then I'm happy. If I bring LRMs, then saying that would be a lie. so I dont use LRMs, except occasionally as a joke.

[Joe Decker]

alby910, on 05 April 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Hi

I would like to know which are the best MECH modules for an LRM Boat . Also which are the best Assault Mechs for an LRM boat . Catapults are fine however they can't carry much ammo

Thanks

So this was the Question and I think the Reply that Ductus Hase wrote was most helpful. Question answered.

If LRM are good Weapons or not is an entirely different Discussion for another Thread.

New Players also got the Right to discover and learn the Game on their own Terms.

In PUG Matches you can make huge Amounts of CBills as a LRM Boat. In competitive Play surely not, as LRM/ECM Mechanic work atm. But that was not the Topic/Question anyway.

Edited by Joe Decker, 09 April 2015 - 08:12 AM.

[InRev]

Falkwulf, on 09 April 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Wow why such a blatent attack, I didnt single you out but if you want I can start posting screenies of me LURMING YOU TO DEATH. and your CRYING ABOUT IT.

Pretty sure that never happened.

Also, congrats, you've put this thread on the fast-track to K-Town with your utterly irrelevant e-peen stroking.

PS: If you're going to pull the "I'm internet famous!!" card, you should at least be someone that people have actually heard of. Someone, perhaps, like Gman129 who says in no uncertain terms: "please don’t use LRMs in comp"

Also, just to see how much you were talking out of your ass, I went to the MRBC site to see the post-match screenshots. Now, I don't want to get into name and shame here, but during the one week in which you participated this season you got carried. Period.

Match 1: 119 damage, 1 kill.
Match 2: 247 damage, 4 kills (killstealin' like a boss!!!)
Match 3: 70 damage, 0 kills
Match 4: 191 damage, 0 kills
Match 5: You were in a King Crab and actually did something useful. 489 damage, 1 kill.

Meanwhile, in all those matches, a Dragon-1N was absolutely wrecking face with direct fire.

Here's the gallery for proof: https://mrbcleague.c...lbum.php?id=580

[Musashi Alexander]

YCSLiesmith, on 09 April 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

Again I struggle to understand what you're talking about. its true, sometimes your loadout doesn't matter. for example if you die in the first two minutes because you turned a blind corner and ran into three daishis and a madcat, your exact loadout doesn't really come into it.

and sure, if you're on a team with a bunch of anchors then the odds of you personally winning the match go down. Similarly if I drop with 228's comp team I'm gonna be on the winning side no matter what I bring because their skill will outweigh my own impact completely.

but, in the event that you actually, you know, get to play, your choices make a difference. and i personally prefer when that difference is a positive one, win or lose. if I say 'I played well, contributed to the team, win or lose I wasn't dragging others down' then I'm happy. If I bring LRMs, then saying that would be a lie. so I dont use LRMs, except occasionally as a joke.

As I intimated before, I would differentiate between playing as a pug and playing in an organised group.

As a pug player, LRMs can be very effective, especially if well played. The map you get can have an impact. The same could be said for energy weapons (i.e. hot v cold) or short range weapons (SMLs and SRMs on Alpine). But that's part of the challenge and part of the variety. I used to play dragons before the buff because they were fun and difficult to do well in (and quintessentially Kuritan!). So, as I say, I rarely feel like I've let the team down in a pug match when I use an LRM build. And that because I rarely do let the team down. So again, using LRMs in pug matches does not lead to an insta-loss, nor does it mean I don't do my part (or carry from time to time).

You say your experience is different from mine and that's ok. I'm not sure why you're so bad with LRMs yourself but there's some good advice on this thread on how to use them effectively.

As you suggest, when playing in a more competitive, team environment, LRMs aren't used as much. I have a few theories as to why but the bottom line is that they aren't very common at all. Though I'd say that's not the case for Clans in CW as LRMs are very common. But then they have a different dynamic to IS LRMs.

Edited by Musashi Alexander, 09 April 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[YCSLiesmith]

@ Joe Decker: no one is trampling newbie Gamer Rights dude, we're just telling them the hard truth about indirect weapons in mechwarrior online.

similar hard truths that no one seems to have a problem with:

machine guns do almost no damage to armor and are useless for anything but trying for crits against exposed components, which isn't particularly useful since exposed components go down in a normal hit or two anyway. dont rely on machine guns.

flamers do machine gun damage, spread out their damage, and are capped at 90% heat so you will never overheat an enemy with them. dont flamer.

why is it that everyone acknowledges these facts but goes berserk when someone steps to their beloved LRMs?

Edited by YCSLiesmith, 09 April 2015 - 08:18 AM.

[YCSLiesmith]

Musashi Alexander, on 09 April 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

As I intimated before, I would differentiate between playing as a pug and playing in an organised group.

You say your experience is different from mine and that's ok. I'm not sure why you're so bad with LRMs yourself but there's some good advice on this thread on how to use them effectively.

As you suggest, when playing in a more competitive, team environment, LRMs aren't used as much. I have a few theories as to why but the bottom line is that they aren't very common at all.

look man I dont have a problem with you in this thread and the other, crazy dude is lowering the tone a lot so I just want to make it clear that I am not 'bad' with LRMs, LRMs are bad with everyone. I've never once faced a player who I feared who was using LRMs. But by all means keep using them, this is not a personal attack on you.

as for theories why LRMs arent used in comp scenes, please see all my posts in this thread.

Edited by YCSLiesmith, 09 April 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[Musashi Alexander]

Sorry Smith, I thought you said you couldn't bring LRMs because you always did poorly in them. I see now that you meant no one can do anything worthwhile in LRMs.

That strikes me as hyperbole.

I generally do very well in LRMs when I use them.

Edited by Musashi Alexander, 09 April 2015 - 08:21 AM.

[-Wulf-]

InRev, on 09 April 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Pretty sure that never happened.

Also, congrats, you've put this thread on the fast-track to K-Town with your utterly irrelevant e-peen stroking.

PS: If you're going to pull the "I'm internet famous!!" card, you should at least be someone that people have actually heard of. Someone, perhaps, like Gman129 who says in no uncertain terms: "please don’t use LRMs in comp"

Also, just to see how much you were talking out of your ass, I went to the MRBC site to see the post-match screenshots. Now, I don't want to get into name and shame here, but during the one week in which you participated this season you got carried. Period.

Match 1: 119 damage, 1 kill.
Match 2: 247 damage, 4 kills (killstealin' like a boss!!!)
Match 3: 70 damage, 0 kills
Match 4: 191 damage, 0 kills
Match 5: You were in a King Crab and actually did something useful. 489 damage, 1 kill.

Meanwhile, in all those matches, a Dragon-1N was absolutely wrecking face with direct fire.

Here's the gallery for proof: https://mrbcleague.c...lbum.php?id=580

Thats only one full round in the MRBC. where are the OTHERS, come on spin it how you all wish dont matter to me, I never claimed I was an internet billionaire, e-peen stroking NOT HARDLY, just stating facts that in the right hands missile boats are effective. So keep trolling.

[pattonesque]

YCSLiesmith, on 09 April 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

@ Joe Decker: no one is trampling newbie Gamer Rights dude, we're just telling them the hard truth about indirect weapons in mechwarrior online.

similar hard truths that no one seems to have a problem with:

machine guns do almost no damage to armor and are useless for anything but trying for crits against exposed components, which isn't particularly useful since exposed components go down in a normal hit or two anyway. dont rely on machine guns.

flamers do machine gun damage, spread out their damage, and are capped at 90% heat so you will never overheat an enemy with them. dont flamer.

why is it that everyone acknowledges these facts but goes berserk when someone steps to their beloved LRMs?

playing lurms appeals to the inner napoleon in many MWO players

it feels very strategic because you can be like HOLD LOCKS and talk about indirect fire and suppression.

also when you lose it is not your fault, it is your team's fault for not holding locks

Falkwulf, on 09 April 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Thats only one full round in the MRBC. where are the OTHERS, come on spin it how you all wish dont matter to me, I never claimed I was an internet billionaire, e-peen stroking NOT HARDLY, just stating facts that in the right hands missile boats are effective. So keep trolling.

so not your hands then? someone else's?

Edited by pattonesque, 09 April 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[Musashi Alexander]

pattonesque, on 09 April 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

playing lurms appeals to the inner napoleon in many MWO players

it feels very strategic because you can be like HOLD LOCKS and talk about indirect fire and suppression.

also when you lose it is not your fault, it is your team's fault for not holding locks



so not your hands then? someone else's?

Nothing annoys me more than the people who at the start of a match ask for people to get/hold locks. Or during a match screaming at others to get/hold locks.

My view is that if you play LRMs as a pug, be self contained. Someone else said that earlier. If you can't take care of yourself, then you're useless. Get your own damn locks. Stick your own neck out. That's why I prefer medium (preferably jump capable) LRM boats. Because they can do do that more effectively. An assault lrm boat going 60kph can't and is reliant on the team for help (in most situations).

Edited by Musashi Alexander, 09 April 2015 - 08:27 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Best LRM Assaults are Stalker or Battlemaster.

I would prefer the BM cause of its Arms.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7a9d4b4d6eca164

Youse your speed, don't waste ammo for indirect fire, don't stay back, 40 LRMs to the face WILL hurt an enemy.
Look out for laserboats, they have to face you to use their lasers so you will have time to lock and fire.
Be wary of multi Gauss and multi AC Mechs they have more overall dps and/or more pinpoint dmg than you.

I find it curious how many self apointed *experienced* players go balistic when they are told:
" Yea my man calm down, its a GAME it should be fun, if competition is your thing go for it but don't poison the water for other GAMERS with your hyperambition."

If you take this game that serious there would be only about three or four mechs on IS and Clan sides that could be brought to CW without burdening your Team.
Same thing goes for weapons.
No AC2 or 10, no smal Lasers, no MGs, no Streaks, no LRM, etc.

But that would be hillarious right ?

If you want to be competetive get a more challenging job, play soccer, tennis or what not.
Stop poisoning GAMES with overzealous behavior.

Edited by The Basilisk, 09 April 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[Onionbird]

The Basilisk, on 09 April 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

I find it curious how many self apointed *experienced* players go balistic when they are told:
" Yea my man calm down, its a GAME it should be fun, if competition is your thing go for it but don't poison the water for other GAMERS with your hyperambition."

If you take this game that serious there would be only about three or four mechs on IS and Clan sides that could be brought to CW without burdening your Team.
Same thing goes for weapons.
No AC2 or 10, no smal Lasers, no MGs, no Streaks, no LRM, etc.

But that would be hillarious right ?

If you want to be competetive get a more challenging job, play soccer, tennis or what not.
Stop poisoning GAMES with overzealous behavior.

Fursonally I agree with you. The last thing we want to do is give new players good advice that will help them become effective members of a team in Mechwarrior Online.

[dezgra]

In responce to the original post. I would say enhanced target decay as most important, then radar dep, lrm cooldown, target info, enhanced sens range. Any mech that can take a minimum of 3 lrm5 or 2 lrm10 can be super deadly. In my feable mind, the key to lrms is positioning. Look at the terrain on your mini map and position yourself so that your lrms can hit the target. Try and keep range 800m or less. Do not be afraid to follow the push, your missles will keep the target off balance while your brawlers kill it. Reposition when you are spotted or take fire. I beleive IS lrms are better than Clan, as long as you do not chain fire. Do not fire at every target you get, pick the ones you can hit. Have a backup weapon or two. Gab a hunchback-4J 2 lrm10 and med lazor, and you will rock in PUG drops. Good luck.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

The high degree of hate, hyperbole, and binary terms being thrown around here in all directions is kind of astounding.


That said.

I would strongly recommend against boating LRMs. (Personally, I'd strongly recommend against boating any one weapon system, where 'one weapon system' consists of weapons with the exact same ranges and restrictions on use, but I guess that's another topic.)

If you want to use LRMs, there are lots of threads out there with differing degrees of yelling at each other and deciding what's going to be fun for you without your own input that you could look at. I suggest reading some LRM guide threads, and then taking a few things into account.

• LRMs are a purely tactical weapon. If you really want to use them, you're making a decision to lug around a weapons system that is not there to specifically kill someone (not that it can't do so, but often you'll find it won't), but rather to soften them up, prompt them to run for cover, or punish them with inconvenience for lacking the cover, ECM, or AMS necessary to survive LRMs being on the battlefield.
  
• There are advantages and disadvantages that are mixed to any given use of LRMs- large numbers of low-size racks for the Inner Sphere (such as 5s) and large racks in small-tube locations (An LRM-15 in a 6-tube slot, for instance) are more susceptible to AMS fire but deal more concentrated damage (usually all CT with occasional bits of head vs. a humanoid heavy or assault) and will waste less ammo at such time as your target finds the necessary cover to obviate your fire, where large racks in large-tube-count locations may splash nearby targets and can be used for dumb fire.
  
• Running more ammo than you absolutely need for an LRM rack is nigh-universally wasteful, so if you're going to do it, monitor how much ammo you have left and be ready to trim your count at any moment.
  
• Very few things actually affect weapons locks as opposed to target locks. Learn the difference- BAP, TAG, TLR, and Radar Derp all affect weapons locks, everything else ONLY affects target locking and paperdoll info time.
  
• If you want to go competitive, nobody's going to thank you (on either side of the match) for running LRMs. If you don't want to go competitive, most machines are going to do better with one mid-size rack (10/15) or one-two small racks (5/10) for 'just in case' than they will as boats. If it doesn't have LRM-specific quirks, you should almost certainly not be running it with LRMs as the main purpose.
  
• Mobility and secondary weaponry are even more important for an LRM-focused machine than for anything else (if that's even possible), since you have that 180m dead zone where the weapon does nothing.

The most important thing to keep in mind, I think, after wading through the river of hatred, frustration, and divisiveness that this thread is, is that you decide what's fun for you. If winning and being The Best™ is where you find your fun, then absolutely listen to NKVA, because they're your kind of people. If using LRMs is where you find your fun and you don't care about winning or losing at all, then pay more attention to the people who advocate LRMs heavily. If you're in between, like I am, and you like winning but don't mind losing as long as you get to try doing your thing and contribute somehow, then pay attention to both ends of the spectrum but keep in mind that extremes are extreme and moderation is where you are, so you shouldn't listen whole-heartedly to either side.

-QKD-CR0