84 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

Grey Ghost, on 06 April 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

I haven't really noticed any worrying problems, but to each their own. If PGI does decide to alter the IS Large Lasers, then I hope they start off with something manageable like upping their ghost heat multiplier. Unless firing more that 3 at a time isn't what all this drama is about.

Based on what I read on Twitter it's full alpha with all 6 being at 70%+ heat on a hot map but I don't see that being a frequent option compared to chaining the proper amount so that you last longer at the exchange. It's just half a second difference to do 3/3 and a full second for 2/2/2. They can nerf the 4+ alpha to high heaven and reduce it back to 2 and it really won't make much of a different near the top end. Those that can't control their trigger finger will probably find something else.

[anonymous161]

Flash Frame, on 05 April 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

The game is about mech combat... not all about customization.

You're the one that decided it's all about customization for you... and not the combat. Otherwise... why would the majority of the modes be combat modes Soy?

Yes, collecting and customization is a facet of the game, but it's not all the game is about. I'd much rather the game limit customization for the betterment of the game, then allow free for all customization and insane builds because "Muh Freedomz!"

Actually thats what people loved about chrome hounds. A much more fun game back in it's early days.

[Alienized]

just split the energy hardpoints into low (small/medium lasers, flamers) and high energy (large lasers/ppc etc) while most mechs should only be able to mount 2 high energy weapons (large lasers/ppc etc) and leave out the specialized mechs like the awesome to get more than 2 high energy weapons.

just make sure that you can mount low energy weapons into the high energy hardpoints as well becuse short range and brawling are already pretty dead here and dont need boating restriction.

no sized hardpoints needed for that.

[R Razor]

Irony: Clanner complaining about laser builds.............wow now I've seen it all on here.

[Widowmaker1981]

Sized hardpoints are a terrible idea, they nerf customisation, and sure, they limit some of the effective builds used now. only IS ones though, so clan would just win. Main laser vomit timby? totally unaffected, it will still be able to mount 2xLPL since several variants come wth them or PPCs stock, and id assume it can still fit mediums into the other slots. Warhawk? builds unchanged, could do whatever it likes. Direwolf? Pretty much unaffected. Might have to mount gauss in the arms not the torsos, but other than that, no change. Same for the Stormcrow, can still run all the same laser boat builds as now.

Not a good idea, at all, just screws certain, mainly IS mechs like the Banshee, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster and Stalker

[Anjian]

Flash Frame, on 05 April 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

I was literally in a game, just now, where literally every enemy mech I saw had large lasers.

EVERY, SINGLE ONE.

4 ERLL Timby's... ERLL Stalkers, ERLL ravens, LL's for everything...

This is out of hand... Medium Lasers I could understand, many mechs mount medium lasers... but it's like everything is mounting larges these days...

I'm Blue, Da bu dee da bu dai guys... damn.

PGI, I think it's time to look at Large Lasers again...

You might just be in a game where everyone or at least most of them are bringing out their CW laser vomit mechs for practice or testing, which I sometimes do to help refine the mech configuration and my own skills. Usually when it comes to the public queue, I tend to prefer PPCs or ballistics.

[Joseph Mallan]

Flash Frame, on 05 April 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

I was literally in a game, just now, where literally every enemy mech I saw had large lasers.

EVERY, SINGLE ONE.

4 ERLL Timby's... ERLL Stalkers, ERLL ravens, LL's for everything...

This is out of hand... Medium Lasers I could understand, many mechs mount medium lasers... but it's like everything is mounting larges these days...

I'm Blue, Da bu dee da bu dai guys... damn.

PGI, I think it's time to look at Large Lasers again...

Why? Cause you don't like seeing a weapon? Get a real reason to hate on a weapon. The damage is to powerful, Its firing around corners. Those are reasonable complaints.

There are to many is not a real complaint.

[Sarlic]

Sad thing is you don't see many people carrying missiles anymore.

You should count how many matches you have without a missile being fired.

It's sad actually.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sarlic, on 06 April 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

Sad thing is you don't see many people carrying missiles anymore.

You should count how many matches you have without a missile being fired.

It's sad actually.

If I have my Zeus or King Crab There are Missiles flying in flights of 15s.

[Sir Wulfrick]

I agree 100% with the OP. I think hard point sizes should be implemented immediately. Ruthlessly curtail the current creep of putting the largest possible assault-class weapons on the smallest, fastest mech possible. AC20 Ravens? Gauss Spiders? All gone.

Obviously this would cause the entire game to shudder under the weight of rage that would emanate from light mech pilots in particular, so in combination with essentially restricting builds to heavier weapon ~ heavier mech, implement the following:

1. Severely nerf sensor range for assault mechs.
2. Huge buff to sensor range for light mechs.
3. Drastic increase in rewards (XP and CB) for scouting performance, e.g. target detection, target identification, enemy mech configuration identification etc.

Suddenly smaller mechs are rewarded for the role they were intended to carry out: scouting and reconnaissance while larger slower mechs are expected to carry out the role they were designed for: damage dealing. Mediums become a versatile mix between the two and have small benefits from both camps. All classes of mechs are necessary in a game: without intelligence from light scouts the assault lance will never find the enemy and will be overcome from superior positions. Without the heavy / assault lances the light mechs won't have a hope of winning the engagement. Mediums fill in both roles to some extent and are again the staple work-horse class, particularly with weight-restricted CW drop decks.

Dare I say it... Role warfare

Edited by Sir Wulfrick, 06 April 2015 - 07:09 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

There shouldn't be two range segments "max" and "extreme max" range for lasers. That would help a great deal. Especially brawlers would be more popular again and maybe AC/10s would be more used as well.


As for weapon divsersity: just watch how many mechs run exclusively lasers. It is a laser fest lately and it seems to get worse and worse. And that is boring - at least for me.


People complain about LRMs being a "noob" weapon. I find lasers to be worse. Sure you do not do the full damage if you aren't good at aiming but you do damage after all

Edited by Bush Hopper, 06 April 2015 - 06:38 AM.

[Averen]

Laserbuilds are not always stronger than others, but not having to rely on ammo is just better. E.g. my SRM-stalker actually fared pretty darn well in shooing away attacking clanners, but it will just run out of ammo at some point. There I stood, a good portion of my armor intact, but having to retire my mech.

I've heard some talk about resupply stations for CW. Those could resolve a lot of the issues.

[ROSS-128]

The only thing sized hardpoints would do is cripple the few IS mechs strong enough to stand up to Clans, annihilate most of mid-tier/good IS mechs, and kick the sick puppies at the bottom of the IS tier list.

Clans would just laugh and keep using their 1-slot lasers.

It would particularly screw two of my favorite mechs, the Banshee 3M and Raven 4X. The former would lose its shoulder weapons, which are the best part of the mech. The latter would get screwed by the fact that it only has two laser hardpoints.

The fact of the matter is, the stock builds suck. FASA made quite a fun stompy robot game, but they really suck at designing practical, functional robots. Most of their designs are junk. IS stock builds suck ten times more than Clan stock builds, mostly due to the IS Tech Tax. Trying to enforce or push people toward stock builds would only serve to cripple the Inner Sphere.

[Weeny Machine]

E Rommel, on 06 April 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

The only thing sized hardpoints would do is cripple the few IS mechs strong enough to stand up to Clans, annihilate most of mid-tier/good IS mechs, and kick the sick puppies at the bottom of the IS tier list.
Clans would just laugh and keep using their 1-slot lasers.
It would particularly screw two of my favorite mechs, the Banshee 3M and Raven 4X.  The former would lose its shoulder weapons, which are the best part of the mech.  The latter would get screwed by the fact that it only has two laser hardpoints.  
The fact of the matter is, the stock builds suck.  FASA made quite a fun stompy robot game, but they really suck at designing practical, functional robots.  Most of their designs are junk.  IS stock builds suck ten times more than Clan stock builds, mostly due to the IS Tech Tax.  Trying to enforce or push people toward stock builds would only serve to cripple the Inner Sphere.

I doubt they suck at making mechs. Take the stock clan mechs from the 3050 TRO: they were obviously intentionally sucky with too many weapons, too few heatsinks, and sometimes over-engined. If the mechs had been min/maxed they wouldn't have been usable for the regular TT. However, they still needed to intro combat values and honour rules. That just shows how powerful the clan tech really is

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 05 April 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

If PGI rolled with Sized Hardpoints in the first place, we wouldn't have had the Gauss Kitty, Boom Cat, Boom Jager, Gauss Jager, PPC Stalkers, PPC Highlanders, PPC 3Ds, PPC Victors, Gigaspike Whale (2 x CERPPC + 2 x Gauss), basically all the mechs that caused griefs with high PPFLDs. TTK woulda been better too.

There are only a few prominent mechs that can cheese sized hardpoints, such as the Devastator, but they are few and PGI can simply choose not to create them in the first place.

To be clear, the Highlander-733P had a PPC, Dragon Slayer (Victor) has a PPC+Gauss... and there one of the Dire Wolf's arms does have a ERPPC stock.

It doesn't change the problem radically... the problems that existed would still continue (magical convergence, high alphas), it would only be mitigated at best.

It gets worse when you attempt to do Clan balance with it (there's a lot of favorable hardpoints on the Clan mechs if we used sized hardpoints).

Edit:
You can actually do a variation of the Gigaspike whale with the current omnipod system easily, believe it or not.

2nd Edit:
Legal Build under "sized hardpoint system":
DWF-B

I'm sure it could be optimized better, but the point is, the Clan omnipod system would avoid many/all of the pitfalls of a sized hardpoint system.

Sarlic, on 06 April 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

Sad thing is you don't see many people carrying missiles anymore.

You should count how many matches you have without a missile being fired.

It's sad actually.

Don't you mean LRMs?

SRMs and Streaks are still going strong.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 April 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

El Bandito, on 05 April 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

And as I said above, the cheese mechs will be there, but few and far between.

You're forgetting player behavior. If the cheese mechs can be there, and if they're still powerful, just as many people will run them as do now. The one thing you'll have nerfed will be creativity in the mechlab.

[El Bandito]

Rebas Kradd, on 06 April 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

You're forgetting player behavior. If the cheese mechs can be there, and if they're still powerful, just as many people will run them as do now. The one thing you'll have nerfed will be creativity in the mechlab.

Creativity in mechlab? More like how many cheese weapons I can cram into mech with the largest amount of slots and quirks, with GH in mind.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 April 2015 - 08:55 AM.

[DaZur]

Lasers PPD?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Unless you are standing still and or fail at rolling damage, any DoT weapons to be seriously considered a plausible PPD issue is nothing but an argument of epic hyperbole...

Oh, my side..

[topgun505]

Since it's not likely we will ever see dynamic map generation or destructible terrain, and it's even unlikely we will see any significant number of new maps introduced in a short time frame, hardpoint sizes are probably the ONLY thing the devs could implement that would bring me back to play this game hardcore again. I don't know how much money I've spent on this game. I'd hazard a guess of between $500-1000, and I've all but walked away from it because it has just gotten stale and boring.

[Weeny Machine]

DaZur, on 06 April 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

Lasers PPD?  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Unless you are standing still and or fail at rolling damage, any DoT weapons to be seriously considered a plausible PPD issue is nothing but an argument of epic hyperbole...

Oh, my side..  

There are some nasty quirks which reduce burn time of lasers. Now add to that latency (if you are European for example, you have something between 100-300ms latency) plus human reaction time which is 1sec average (can be reduced depending on your condition and the situation to 0,4 down to 0,1).
Which means in a worst case and with quirks it usually is pinpoint damage. If you are in a really good condition you have whoooping 0,1-0,4 sec as reaction time. But yeah, laugh if you feel better and smarter that way

Edited by Bush Hopper, 06 April 2015 - 09:31 AM.