65 replies to this topic

[Spleenslitta]

There is one way to double or maybe even quadruple volume of fire per relocation but it's a conditional thing. I covered it in the OP analysis on Canyon Network in 3 places.
I mentioned it in the first firing location you arrive at D4, some alternate attacking spots at D3 and a green route in the corner of D2.

Imagine you round a piece of cover and see 2 enemies and they are not looking your way. Target A is standing behind target B.
If you shoot A first B will not able to see the shot since he is ahead of A. If you're lucky you might get a 2nd shot at A.
Regardless you reverse slightly behind cover so A cannot see you anymore but you still got a line of sight to B.
Shoot B once or twice depending on his reaction. Now you relocate. That's 4 shoots for one position.
We could also use short relocations behind a bigger piece of cover to accomplish the same thing.
As i said it's quite conditional and depends on both the shape of your cover and analysing line of sight of your enemies quickly.

Knowing the maps is the basic for Rodent Fu. Or does Pest Fu sound cooler?

Another thing we could do is to try attacking at middle range. The KFX is lacking a little in speed to do this however.
Bring small ER lasers within a usefull range.

Regarding ACH builds. ACH only has 8.5 tonns of available tonnage when you strip 8 points of armor.
So you get only 1.5 tonns for backup weapons when you equip ER PPC and ECM. It's clearly not enough.

I'm off to work.

[Wayreth]

I would like to mention that it has become in vogue to strip back armor from most mechs to support bigger and better weaponry (hint hint). Next is that in most pug matches that I see everyone out paces the assault mechs. Do your team a favor and provide escort for your speed challenged teammates. If you are going to split the team up take a buddy with you. Circling tactics are twice as effective with 2 of you gnawing on that back armor.

[Spleenslitta]

Wayreth, on 07 September 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

I would like to mention that it has become in vogue to strip back armor from most mechs to support bigger and better weaponry (hint hint). Next is that in most pug matches that I see everyone out paces the assault mechs. Do your team a favor and provide escort for your speed challenged teammates. If you are going to split the team up take a buddy with you. Circling tactics are twice as effective with 2 of you gnawing on that back armor.

That's what me and Rabbi are experimenting on. We're trying to find a way to make a flanking tagteam more effective.
As for escorting the assaults. That's not possible when using these tactics. I can do it till they get united with the rest of the team but then i gotta leave them in the hands of the team.

[Wayreth]

Which is totally reasonable, provide support until they get to the main group.

[Spleenslitta]

Wayreth, on 07 September 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Which is totally reasonable, provide support until they get to the main group.

Unfortunatly i once more came face to face with the one major flaw in my tactics i cannot get rid of no matter how i wring my brain.
It works perfectly fine in PUG matches. i think it will be very effective on Solaris as long as the maps are large enough.

But today i was completly crushed when me and Rabbi dropped in a match. The enemy team just deathballed everything to bits with incredible speed.
Matches like those tend to be not only fast but also very onesided. When i don't got any time to do my thing it just doesn't work.
So it doesn't work if my own team or the enemy is so aggressive that the match is over in under 3-4 minutes.

But it might be as Thomas Edison said in your signature Wayreth -"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”
Who knows? I just know the probability of me finding an answer to this problem is very slim.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 07 September 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Yeah, we're gonna have those days, and I'm alright with that. It was quite a famine though.

I'm doing alright with this when dropping solo/PUG. No major damage (one REALLY lucky match notwithstanding), a kill now and then. A few components a drop, assists on more than half the kills.

Something I personally have to get better at, among the MANY things, is being decisive about when to go ahead and charge into the middle of the brawl. Had one of those matches earlier today, where it netted me 3 kills, as opposed to NONE prior to diving into the melee. It also NEARLY got me carved into bits. We picked that one up like 12-9, I think. Had I stayed longer at the outside of the fight, I might very well have ended up being the last mech on my side in a 9-12 loss. Had I dove in earlier, I likely wouldn't have survived to see the victory screen. Like that 900+ damage drop a couple days ago, I just lucked into the sweet spot and switched from sniper to backstabber at an opportune moment.

That takes a REALLY good sense of timing to do with any consistency, which is why it's pretty rare for me. But I'm slowly coming back around after my long absence.

Also, Spleenslitta, my apologies that I wasn't more available today. Had SOMETHING going on with my connection all day long, like you saw on that Alpine Peaks drop. Got free of it for a while, to go do some CW drops with the team, but it eventually came back and I had to cut out.

ALSO, I'm playing with the RVN-4X now too. GREAT laser quirks for that one, along with JJs. Kinda split between that (265XL engine, 5 JJs, extra DHS, pulls a 1.47 without ELITE) and my 3L (295XL, ECM, all but MASTERed). Trying to figure out which I want more for my IS drop deck, so I may end up bringing them along now and then, since (thanks to you, BTW) I MASTERed my ACH-A today. Still have the PRIME and B Cheeters to MASTER, and that SHC collection to work up from the basement, though.

[Spleenslitta]

Aaaah yes. The moment we decide to go bonkers in a different way has to be timed very well.
If i'm damaged i sometimes don't willingly go up close and personal no matter what as long as i got my long range weapon.
Because i know that a whole bunch of longrange shots over a longer period of time is worth more than a couple of alphas followed by my immediate death.
It does kinda sound ruthless and selfishbut even if my entire team dies i can still pull a victory through attrition as long as my enemies has only slower mechs left on their team.

No worries about anything.

[Spleenslitta]

I guess all 3 of us learned a lesson today when we dropped togheter. It seems M.R.M.A. is very suitable for PUG'ing but somewhat unsuitable for organised play for several reasons.

- Premade teams are most often aggressive so matches are shorter. Since we do less damage per minute than meta tactics this is a bad thing for us.
- With more of us flanking makes the enemy more concious of flank attacks.

Pray harder for favorable maps so we get better results. Pray or eat raw brick. No bacon, cheese or seasoning without hard prayer.
We need to make certain we stay away from the team next time so we can do our own things. Keeping a distance from our own team is the basics.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 09 September 2015 - 12:15 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

So yeah, it's looking more and more like this is best played as a one-mech show. Three was definitely too many, in my humble opinion. That's just leaving our friendlies outnumbered 4-to-3 in the brawl, with us poking from the sides. Too long between repositions, too little DPS production.

I ran a LOT in SHCs afterward (filled BASICs on 2, and 1/2 of a third), with 2x cERLL 1x cMPL cECM TCompMkI. Had decent results overall, especially once the skills were filled out. Oh yeah, and the cERLL range and cooldown modules helped a good bit, too. Working on getting those up for my IS mechs, too.

It's a VERY useful role, actually. Had one especially good run on River City that netted like 3 kills and 500+ damage. Told me a couple things.

1.) Having a fresh, relatively quick mech, with SOME manner of close-range weaponry, enter the close-up fighting late (after a lot of armor has been peeled by the big guys) CAN be a game changer. Especially if that mech has already contributed to the fight with the distance game.

2.) Carefully picking locations to aim for, in order to weaken enemies there for quicker kills by the friendly meta 50+ tonners? BIG help.

3.) Small, fast, light mechs, are EASIER to hit at a certain distance, than they are up-close. Consider your arc of forward visibility. The angle is what it is, for any given magnification. If a ACH goes speeding across it at 129+ kph, then the further from you he is, the less of your field of view he crosses. As long as you CAN see him and put ranged fire (ERLLs are great for this) on him, you have less moving/turning to do to keep the hit on him (or GET it onto him, in case the aim wasn't true right away). Might not be able to pick your hit location as carefully as against a Mauler, for instance. But you CAN get its relatively light armor stripped quickly.

4.) If they don't know where you are, lights will almost ALWAYS who you their backs. 2x cERLL to the back plate, especially against a current-meta light, is a pretty quick kill (usually stolen by the guy in the TBR, of course, but I ain't mad). You might not get to see it for long, but you WILL get to see it, and it can be quite gratifying. Somehow, taking down a ACH is more satisfying than taking down a Dire Whale. The whale's just THERE. You can't miss it.

[Torezu]

TheRAbbi, on 09 September 2015 - 09:28 PM, said:

If they don't know where you are, lights will almost ALWAYS who you their backs. 2x cERLL to the back plate, especially against a current-meta light, is a pretty quick kill (usually stolen by the guy in the TBR, of course, but I ain't mad). You might not get to see it for long, but you WILL get to see it, and it can be quite gratifying. Somehow, taking down a ACH is more satisfying than taking down a Dire Whale. The whale's just THERE. You can't miss it.

This describes one of the funniest kills I've ever gotten. We were running around on Mining Collective, and an enemy Spider was sniping from a rooftop. His problem is that he wasn't moving much, and didn't see me. So I, in my 8 ML Firestarter (no, it doesn't run cool), hopped up on the roof behind him, waited for him to take one more shot and stop moving, then hit him in the back ST with everything I had. He just dropped.

[Spleenslitta]

Yeah. 3 Mechs is just too much....At first i thought there MIGHT be a potential for a tagteam using M.R.M.A. if we drop with a premade that is not so aggressive.
But if the enemy team is aggressive then it won't matter much after all. So in the end i think this is strictly a PUG tactic and a possible really good for Solaris if the maps are large enough.
If the Solaris maps are small with lot's of participants then it's a total failure.

Me and Hank had a couple of matches in which we were successfull tagteaming but both teams were less aggressive than premades usually are.
But since that happens only rarelly

Lot's of yups from me Rabbi.
1) The MG's become the most powerfull shortrange weapon in the game when this happens.

2) Wish i had the patience and courage to pick my shots that carefully. Usually i end up shooting for the center of mass before i even know my targets damage or mech type.
Then i just run like a maniac.

3) Even though the PPC needs a lead it's easier to hit a light mech at long/middle range than up close.
Funny story there actually. When all 3 of us dropped in Tourmaline Desert Hank was chasing a light mech.
I just thought i'd give that light extra reason to not fight back against Hank. A snap shot with my ER PPC at 400-500 meter range killed that light mech right in front of Hank's nose.
Now that i think of it....i could have hit Hank instead since he was so close.

4) The only way you can catch a light mech just standing around is either when he is firing carefully at your allies or when he is in standby mode ready to chase down enemy light mechs.

Torezu, on 10 September 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

This describes one of the funniest kills I've ever gotten. We were running around on Mining Collective, and an enemy Spider was sniping from a rooftop. His problem is that he wasn't moving much, and didn't see me. So I, in my 8 ML Firestarter (no, it doesn't run cool), hopped up on the roof behind him, waited for him to take one more shot and stop moving, then hit him in the back ST with everything I had. He just dropped.

I've allready told about that Atlas i tore apart in my Jenner back when i first discovered cover feints.
Got called "That loon in a Jenner" for that one since my movements when i was out of sight from my victim didn't make any sense.

Since allready told stories are stale...I was on Tourmaline Desert as the last mech on my team.
I was running away from a DW and Catapult while trying to shield my back armor with my arms.
I turned my torso to look forwards again just as i was going over a ridge. As soon as i looked forward a Thunderbolt filled up my entire view at point blank range.
I fired everything i had into it's center torso incredibly fast and ran through it's wreck before it fell over.

Everyone was praising my quick reaction and my reply was this "I was just scared"
That's the truth. That big mech scared me pretty badly with how suddenly it showed up.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Spleenslitta: do you have any premium time? I'd like to get together with someone, map-by-map, and find the best vantage points and their ideal engagement areas (EAs), and put together a set of maps for those, with good ingress/egress routes between.

[Spleenslitta]

No premium time. I never invest in it.

I find the best points by playing and taking a mental note of where the meta players tend to go.
It's how i made those maps. I got a lousy memory for the stuff that's important enough to get me food on the table.
But when it comes to stuff like this....it's all stuffed into my skull.

Just exploring a map in the training grounds works fine for finding smaller details. I got some decent info on the new Forest Colony map allready by playing.
Soon i might have enough to make a map for the guide on that map. Seems the teams clash togheter more frequently on the side with the wrecked cargoship and right in the middle of the central forest.
The other side with the large beach sees almost no action. I've only seen one case of an entire team sneaking past each other and ending up trading starting spots on this map.

New River City is coming togheter slowly, but it's harder to know the meta players minds on that one.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

No, I mean to do something a bit more detailed. As an offering for your guide, of course.

***EDIT***

Sorry, was on a break from work. Hard to type out a real post from an iPhone in the span of a smoke break (and I smoke quickly--Army habit).

So, what I hope to do, is to pick a few spots on each map that seem to be ... prolific, I guess ... for a pilot using your advice here. I want to mark them on the battlegrid map for each, as well as the Engagement Areas.

The Engagement Area (EA) is a pretty simple military concept. That's where you anticipate your targets being. It's where you'll find targets to ENGAGE. Consider the firing positions to be basically SBFs (Support-By-Fire).

How wide a Field of View do you have at 1.00x, 2.00x, and 4.00x, at least left-to-right? We need to consider that and mark the arc outward from the SBF across the EA, along with weapon ranges (say two common ones, a cERLL and IS ERLL?), as a fan. A range fan, sure.

This ought to take into consideration where each team spawns on a map, and where the typical routes of movement to contact are, as well as where the brawl usually takes place. Some maps, live River City, are gonna be fairly tough because of all the cover offered by the many buildings. Others like Tourmaline Desert and Caustic Valley are pretty straightforward, in that there isn't nearly as much cover for your victims.

It's also going to have to take into account if each position is a left-peek, right-peek, hill-hump, pop-tart-only, or some combination of those.

I'm gonna do some thinking on how to mark this on a map (best practices in symbology, and I'll likely end up drawing on some old Army doctrine to that end, because REASONS) and poll some pals on the latest meta-devolution of the PUG brawl.

I'll also chip in that this SEEMS a far more effective practice in the PUG queue than in group/premade, and further that CW is its own meta, an ultra-meta if you will, and the two sets of meta tactics are almost mutually exclusive. But this stuff is what I've used to level up THREE SHCs in a week (-ish) through the full BASICs, and for such a relatively weak mech I'm rather pleased with the results thus far. PUG with a 2xcERLL SHC by the recommendations above, and you'll be rewarded with a quick leveling-up of a sub-mediocre chassis!

Edited by TheRAbbi, 10 September 2015 - 11:24 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Spleenslitta, on 06 April 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

You need to have good situational awareness, instant decision making, patience, quick aiming and an unpredictable state of mind.

This is all anyone needs to quote re: piloting lights.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

BUMP. Y'know, for great justice or something.

Also, Spleenslitta, I've been having more success lately with that 2x cERLL SHC. Not as fast as the guide recommends, I know. And certainly not a top choice for the role at any rate. But it's been working out fairly well. MASC has some interesting benefits other than max speed (which it doesn't really do a lot for on the SHC anyhow), mostly in increasing maneuverability when you eventually DO get hunted down. Worth looking into. It's been a pretty good investment after all, really, though I'd sell a kidney for a little extra torso energy hardpoint love on this thing.

But yeah, I definitely want to get around to mapping out some ideal firing points and engagement areas for this. Not a you-must-do-it-like-this thing, but at least a these-are-some-reasonable-suggestions kind of thing.

[Spleenslitta]

Me and Hank have talked about the possibilities MASC gives us. I thought using it for instant acceleration when we get back into cover would be the most important thing.
It's very good when doing short relocations but long ones take up to much MASC time i think. It has a significant cooldown afterall.

As for the speed on the SHC. It's the same speed as my KFX which does fairly well.

I'll know more once i get my hands on that EXE....yeah....i'm gonna try it with a fastmoving assault. After i've gotten the +10% speed tweak.
It will be worth it just for the giggles.
I know you want to find ideal firing points this way. I'll see about investing in some premium time on sunday or someday during the next week.
Got a week of vacation coming then.

That vacation week was supposed to be for the big update. Might as well try to figure out some extra stuff.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 14 September 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

I'm sure I can find someone to tool around with. Don't go spending IRL € on my behalf, homie.

[Kishida Sato]

nice guide, thanks ! Very helpful.

Oh, and a reason to have any light sniper mech with a mix of ranges. I like 3 ML+1LL +2 more DHS raven. or 5 ML+LL Jenner.

[Spleenslitta]

Kishida Sato, on 02 October 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

nice guide, thanks ! Very helpful.

Oh, and a reason to have any light sniper mech with a mix of ranges. I like 3 ML+1LL +2 more DHS raven. or 5 ML+LL Jenner.

Good to know some players manage to make it through the entire guide without getting too bored.
Those builds sound hot. Waaaay back when i started out on Jack of all ranges builds i had a Jenner with 3SL's, 1ML and ER LL.
280XL engine i think it was and plenty of JJ's. It was something of this nature anyhow.

A lot of players find it challenging to fight at full capacity with 3 weapon groups.
But if you keep a weapon group to a certain key/mousebutton for a long time you will instinctivly know that mousebutton has a weapon capable of doing damage at a specific range.
I prefer having a midrange weapon in this 3rd weapon group. It's the range that's used most often and thus i find i remember it faster.

Nowadays i react just as fast with this 3rd weapon group as the other 2.