178 replies to this topic

[PhenodDNA]

Anyone who's not the loyalist (i.e. keeping Lifetime contract, without smurfs/keeping all the smurfs in same faction as loyalists) won anyway. Can't take money from each other's pocket.
In fact, I'm surprised to NOT see several factions taking turns in "dirty" kills, with maxed component destruction and damage before anyone will die.

[Novawrecker]

Wing 0, on 09 April 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

These I.S weaklings got way too reliant on mercs and heavily quirked mechs.

Like the Clan players in this game don't depend heavily on Timbers, Hellbringers, and Scrows. Hypocrite much?

Crottykid16, on 09 April 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

If we would have been able to capture Capital planets things would be very different ... Smoke Jag would have crush you Kurita Surats and once again not be cut in half.

You did get a chance to attack and capture a capitol planet and you lost. Or are you conveniently wishing to strongly forget about Luthien? Be it for whatever reasons that planet was permitted to be open to attacks, that event was a testament of our resolve. You say you would have crushed us? You failed and a Kurtian unit's name stands DEFIANTLY and proudly there to consistently remind you (i.e.shove in your whiskers) of the glorious victory House Kurita and the entire IS achieved vs. the Plushy Kats and all other clans that came to their aid that night.

You talk. We act. The results are VERY clear.

Edited by Novawrecker, 10 April 2015 - 03:04 PM.

[Tyras]

Quote

"UMMM what no...in fact they need to encourage more inner house conflicts....The whole IS didn't just say OMG clans stop them is a joke! NO they had their own issues with each other still and kept fighting during the invasion...That needs to still be apart of the CW....Also the whole shoe of Clans QQ'ing about on par (or OP IMO) IS lasers....If that shoe was on the IS players foot we would never hear the need of it...It would be worse then anything the clan players have posted...I want balance but not most of the IS's idea of "balance"

You're expecting players to play in accordance with the fiction rather than to play to win? We're not re-enactors of how things happened in lore. We're here to play matches where the winner comes out with more reward than the losers.

Yes PGI has attempted to create an environment that is as close to the fiction as balanced game play will allow for, but that in no way suggests or mandates we play in the same manner that the various Houses or Clans did in he lore. With the two major groups being the clans and the IS, it makes perfect sense that players would coordinate to stave off any infighting and focus on heir chief opponent to ensure victory.

Edited by Tyras, 10 April 2015 - 06:55 AM.

[Prussian Havoc]

eSeifer, on 09 April 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

Without a final battle before reset, it's time to voice your thoughts on who won the first pre-season of CW Beta!

Share thoughts below!

I voted and will now post this comment from my Clan-account specifically to highlight that it is my firm beleive the Clan Invasion was NOT JUST smashed during the 27-29MAR Community Warfare Numeric Superiority Surge of the Inner Sphere BUT it so completely disheartened Clan Soloists, small Units and 12-man capable Units that the Clans are STILL losing worlds on a net-weekly basis nearly two-weeks after the single and solitary CW-Weekend-Challenge run by PGI.

Are the Clan-gamers so USED to their technological overmatch and relentless drive on Terra that they proved NOT up to the task of persevering in the face of a significant Inner Sphere challenge to their domminance?



Yes. I firmly believe when push came to shove, a significant portion of Clan gamers retreated into the Public Queues and largely (now that the reset has been announced) have failed to return in formerly impressive vigor and coordination to Community Warfare.

The Clans were roughly handled by Inner-Sphere-gamer-turnout caused by the 27-29MAR CW Weekend Challenge.

The Clans have continued to lose worlds on a net-basis ever since the 27-29MAR event.

With less than two weeks remaining until map reset there is no way the Clans can regain their CW preeminence.



The Clans categorically lost Community Warfare BETA Phase 1... so now the question remains, will the 21APR change to the "Attack / Hold Action" mechanism be sufficient to put the Clans back on a CW BETA Phase 2 #Path2Terra?


...or will FORTRESS RASALHAUGE and BASTION LUTHIEN once again prove to be the genesis (when combined with sufficient numeric overmatch) of Clan DISINTEGRATION once again (http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4352701).

And the choice of the word "DISINTEGRATION" is in truth a fair one, given the reduction to mean "pockets" of Clan resistance along the Clans once formidable Front Line trace:

[Gyrok]

Honestly...many clan units quit caring about FRR at all because it was meaningless to bother with the backfield. Until we can take capitals, the IS will always have the advantage of factions not being destructible. If we could have taken the FRR capital early on, FRR would not have existed for over a month.

Since that is not allowed, many think CW to be a joke and quit playing because no matter what, you cannot destroy a faction to eliminate them from being a factor.

Once unit coffers come into play, capitals can be taken, mercs are more tied down, and the planets mean something besides pixels on a map...expect to see more clan units care about the results.

[Onionbird]

Prussian Havoc, on 10 April 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

I voted and will now post this comment from my Clan-account specifically to highlight that it is my firm beleive the Clan Invasion was NOT JUST smashed during the 27-29MAR Community Warfare Numeric Superiority Surge of the Inner Sphere BUT it so completely disheartened Clan Soloists, small Units and 12-man capable Units that the Clans are STILL losing worlds on a net-weekly basis nearly two-weeks after the single and solitary CW-Weekend-Challenge run by PGI.

Are the Clan-gamers so USED to their technological overmatch and relentless drive on Terra that they proved NOT up to the task of persevering in the face of a significant Inner Sphere challenge to their domminance?



Yes. I firmly believe when push came to shove, a significant portion of Clan gamers retreated into the Public Queues and largely (now that the reset has been announced) have failed to return in formerly impressive vigor and coordination to Community Warfare.

The Clans were roughly handled by Inner-Sphere-gamer-turnout caused by the 27-29MAR CW Weekend Challenge.

The Clans have continued to lose worlds on a net-basis ever since the 27-29MAR event.

With less than two weeks remaining until map reset there is no way the Clans can regain their CW preeminence.



The Clans categorically lost Community Warfare BETA Phase 1... so now the question remains, will the 21APR change to the "Attack / Hold Action" mechanism be sufficient to put the Clans back on a CW BETA Phase 2 #Path2Terra?


...or will FORTRESS RASALHAUGE and BASTION LUTHIEN once again prove to be the genesis (when combined with sufficient numeric overmatch) of Clan DISINTEGRATION once again (http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4352701).

And the choice of the word "DISINTEGRATION" is in truth a fair one, given the reduction to mean "pockets" of Clan resistance along the Clans once formidable Front Line trace:

Gyrok, on 10 April 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Honestly...many clan units quit caring about FRR at all because it was meaningless to bother with the backfield. Until we can take capitals, the IS will always have the advantage of factions not being destructible. If we could have taken the FRR capital early on, FRR would not have existed for over a month.

Since that is not allowed, many think CW to be a joke and quit playing because no matter what, you cannot destroy a faction to eliminate them from being a factor.

Once unit coffers come into play, capitals can be taken, mercs are more tied down, and the planets mean something besides pixels on a map...expect to see more clan units care about the results.

I feel like you two need to take a little break, step away from the computer, and come back after cooling down. This toxic environment makes it very difficult to debate such a topic in a rational manner.

[Tasker]

Help, am being triggered by harsh words from man with avatar of derpy wolf.

[Molossian Dog]

Prussian Havoc, on 10 April 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

...Are the Clan-gamers so USED to their technological overmatch and relentless drive on Terra that they proved NOT up to the task of persevering in the face of a significant Inner Sphere challenge to their domminance?...

Short version: Yes.

Long version: Yes. The half year of blatant OP-ness after "launch" spoiled them and made them spineless whiners that break apart after one loss and flee to the public queues and/or the forums.

[Kenyon Burguess]

Gyrok, on 10 April 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Honestly...many clan units quit caring about FRR at all because it was meaningless to bother with the backfield. Until we can take capitals, the IS will always have the advantage of factions not being destructible. If we could have taken the FRR capital early on, FRR would not have existed for over a month.

Since that is not allowed, many think CW to be a joke and quit playing because no matter what, you cannot destroy a faction to eliminate them from being a factor.

Once unit coffers come into play, capitals can be taken, mercs are more tied down, and the planets mean something besides pixels on a map...expect to see more clan units care about the results.

that's really why you think clans lost? you couldn't keep a world contained so everyone quit trying. I think you need to detach yourself from your unit for a while and examine the clan world from a different view point.

[Molossian Dog]

And let´s totally forget you cannot conquer clan capitals either.

[The Mechromancer]

What is the point of playing when clans can win over 50% of the games but still get hosed by PGI? If the only goal in CW is to get planets, and we are not being rewarded for our effort, why even bother?

Combine that with the reset coming, and the only thing you get for playing CW is C-bills, which are largely worthless in the 6-month pre order release era. I don't know any of my friends who are sitting on less than 100 million.

Oh and you get faction titles too. Whoopee.

Edited by The Mechromancer, 10 April 2015 - 08:30 AM.

[Molossian Dog]

Fall 2014:

"If the pay to aff guys outgun, outrun, out-heatsink and out-alpha us, why even bother."

Edited by Molossian Dog, 10 April 2015 - 08:28 AM.

[The Mechromancer]

Molossian Dog, on 10 April 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

And let´s totally forget you cannot conquer clan capitals either.

Clans have not had 2 capitals completely isolated for days at a time.

[Kyynele]

Well, the obvious problem with the whole CW so far was that the side with more population always won the planets, and the bigger merc units pretty much deciding which side gets planets and which one loses them. Playing in a small premade, got stuck several times to fight on a single sector despite winning 100% of the matches, and therefore never got a chance to increase the amount of sectors taken over. Planet successfully defended by the opposing force while losing all the matches, gg.

I've seen many of the "big", loudmouthed CW units being pretty much pushovers in actual matches, interesting to see if, and how much the balance shifts when numbers become less of a decisive factor than match results.

Not taking IS or Clan sides here, have played pretty much all factions on the right hand side of the map.

[Apnu]

Gyrok, on 09 April 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

The only comment I would make is that it seems a large portion of the Wolves is just flat out burned out on CW. Holding the lines since the beginning has burned Delta out for sure. We have some guys on vacation, and so forth right now, but what we do have is not dropping CW mostly.

Its not just Wolves, its everybody. CW's low population numbers speak to that.

For all the trash talk we Davions get from certain factions, the truth is most of the Davion pilots I know are burnt out on CW already. We have 200 members in HHoD at the moment, we can barely find more than 12 willing to drop into CW. I've talked to other Davion units, they too struggle to find players willing to put up with CW in its current form. The time sink, the low payouts, having to use meta mechs to be on a level playing field, having to invest in said meta mechs, small number of maps, lame game modes, spawn camping, cheese tactics.... It just overwhelms players and becomes like work. Only a small number of players actually like CW.

[Prussian Havoc]

Kyynele, on 10 April 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

Spoiler

Well, the obvious problem with the whole CW so far was that the side with more population always won the planets, and the bigger merc units pretty much deciding which side gets planets and which one loses them. Playing in a small premade, got stuck several times to fight on a single sector despite winning 100% of the matches, and therefore never got a chance to increase the amount of sectors taken over. Planet successfully defended by the opposing force while losing all the matches, gg.

I've seen many of the "big", loudmouthed CW units being pretty much pushovers in actual matches, interesting to see if, and how much the balance shifts when numbers become less of a decisive factor than match results.

Not taking IS or Clan sides here, have played pretty much all factions on the right hand side of the map.

MANY gamers are overlooking the fact that YES, Clan Invasions WILL gain a greater than previous chance to actually "Attack" rather than ETERNAL "Hold Actions" BUT the Inner Sphere will STILL retain numeric superioirty and while the Clans are on the ATTACK, the Inner Sphere can simultaneously reciprocate with EQUALLY MORE effective Attacks on Clan-held worlds.

The change in the "Attack / Hold Action" mechanism will thus be revealed to be a dual-edged sword IMO.

Gyrok, on 10 April 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Honestly...many clan units quit caring about FRR at all because it was meaningless to bother with the backfield. Until we can take capitals, the IS will always have the advantage of factions not being destructible. If we could have taken the FRR capital early on, FRR would not have existed for over a month.

Since that is not allowed, many think CW to be a joke and quit playing because no matter what, you cannot destroy a faction to eliminate them from being a factor.

Once unit coffers come into play, capitals can be taken, mercs are more tied down, and the planets mean something besides pixels on a map...expect to see more clan units care about the results.

Gyroc, I belive your thoughts and rationale are SPOT ON - it will take the entirety of Community Warfare Phase Three to sufficiently harness BOTH Inner Sphere AND Clan group dynamics sufficiently to introduce realistic warfare-based constraints/restraints on respective gamer bases.

EXCELLENT observation - many of these CW Phase 3 mechanisms will also introduce "Levers" by which PGI can shape gamer balances: a TOO-SUCCESSFUL Faction Offensive could be "cooled down" by either PGI increasing that successful Faction's Jumpship Transportation Charges.... or more subtly, the drastic lessening of Jumpship Charges for a prospective third-party RIVAL to the Faction originally perceived as TOO-SUCCESSFUL.

Yes, the future is BRIGHT with means by which PGI will soon be able to enhance and increasingly IMMERSIVE BattleTech gaming experience.

Onionbird, on 10 April 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

I feel like you two need to take a little break, step away from the computer, and come back after cooling down. This toxic environment makes it very difficult to debate such a topic in a rational manner.

Your sensibilities are of paramount concern to us Good Onionbird. I have always admired the alacrity with which NKVA achieved its current in game dominance for HK... and in forums we are often provided with gems as your and Tasker's comments above, as well as ones such as:

[Peiper]

Mercenaries won it. Not IS or Clans.

Let me restate this: if you removed the mercs from community warfare, the map would look much different. The game rewards people for ditching contracts, not for being loyal to any nation or cause.

Give people the option to play ALL their mechs in ALL factions, then make contracts last NO LESS than a month, and let's see what happens! Until then, no faction can claim victory, because no faction can win with mercs throwing off the balance all the time.

Yeah, in lore, mercs could turn the tide on a PLANET or two. But they were a small, sometimes elite, minority compared to the vast numbers of loyalist units. Remember, even the Kell Hounds and Wolfs Dragoons COMBINED fought only ONE battle in the clan wars, and that was for Luthien, and that was using clan tech and/or omnimechs. It takes months, at least, to rebuild troop strength, refit/rebuild/get delivery of new mechs. Weeks, sometimes, to jump to a destination system IF the jumpships are available, etc...

So, I repeat, get rid of the tech segregation (which is a big reason some players switch between Clan and Inner Sphere contracts) and make contracts last no less than a month and get back to me. Until then, they can just rename all the clans A-D, and houses 1-6 and do away with the flags and cockpit do-dads, because, let's face it, they don't mean anything at all right now other than which mechs you can pilot.

AT LEAST, make it so that when you increase in loyalty with a house you gain salvage of the opposite technology, so for every 5 ranks you have in a faction, you have the option of playing any mech in your drop deck. But rank 20, you can pilot any mech in any slot of your drop deck.

[eSeifer]

Peiper, on 10 April 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

Mercenaries won it. Not IS or Clans.

But, for the large majority it is the person who holds their contract.
Once again stating CW involves diplomacy plus your skills in a 12 man.

[CyclonerM]

MischiefSC, on 09 April 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

Kurita won first Beta round.

Are you talking about the faction that has lost the most planets for a long time?


If i had to declare a "winner", which is something i am reluctant to do, maybe it would be either House Marik or Liao.

Oth, even with the event and a lot of Clan players taking a break after it, the Clans managed to conquer more planets than they did in lore, and at a point we were getting quite close to Terra.

Edited by CyclonerM, 10 April 2015 - 12:16 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Mercs were irrelevant, the ones who switched regularly anyway. They were like your team in a pug match. Sometimes it favored you, sometimes it didn't, the end result was all you.

Some of the solid merc units who held long contracts helped sway things.

Mercs didn't win CW. They proved that in the long term, they make themselves irrelevant in a lot of ways.

Also you're not 'required to take meta to compete'. You do need to bring 4 good mechs but people are good in different things. The difference though is that good in pugs /= good in CW. You need good CW mechs. Even worse when you take bad mechs the effects are magnified by having 4 drops.

I'm even willing to say bring your LRMs if you absolutely have to because you can't shoot straight - just do so from the front line. If you hang out in the back 'sniping' or 'providing LRM support' you're pretty much boning your team. You're making them fight 12 v 11 but with some occasional bonus damage thrown in. If you're not taking your turn on the line you're hurting your team. For the love of god, please. Please please please quit running off alone. Not to shoot gens or omega (especially on counter-attack. There is nothing more pointless than that) unless it's something called by the drop commander.

Sorry for the segue but there are days you feel trolled by your own team.

CyclonerM, on 10 April 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Are you talking about the faction that has lost the most planets for a long time?

Yep. The ones who came back to wreck the face of every faction touching their border, largely with house units and long term mercs? Those guys. They didn't flounce off or quit CW because it was HHHAAARRRRDDDDD or abandon their faction for a couple spare mech bays. They knuckled down and worked to bring the quality of their house units and pugs up. They focused on winning *as a faction* and....

as a faction, they overall won when it mattered. When it got hard in the home stretch.