178 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Connor Sellock, on 10 April 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

THE END ALL BE ALL TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE CLANS WON OR NOT -

HAS TERRA FALLEN?

...if so, you are dreaming and need to wake up...

...if not, reset and let the Clans try it again...

How can Terra fall when PGI does not even allow it to be taken? In fact, they also did not allow your capital planet to be taken.

[Novawrecker]

Mystere, on 10 April 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

In fact, they also did not allow your capital planet to be taken.

See that Kurtian Unit's tag on Luthien? PGI didn't put that there, genious.

Stop making excuses like a punk. PGI didn't stop the clans from taking Luthien ... WE DID. Don't forget it.

Edited by Novawrecker, 11 April 2015 - 12:29 AM.

[Elizander]

I think this brings up the bigger issue of lack of goals/objectives. CW right now is like a sandbox where players really don't have a lot of decisions on which place to attack and there is no reason to attack a planet other than to get the border extended. It's like a war without any strategy or no generals and we just have masses of frontline troops throwing themselves at each other.

CW needs goals, each planet taken needs to feel significant in some way to the faction, the individual player and to the unit that contributed the most into taking/defending it. Other than the borders, there is really no lasting effect of 'winning' planets which honestly makes it feel like an empty battle for those who are looking for more than just the endscreen rewards and loyalty points.

Hope this gets addressed eventually.

[KuroNyra]

MischiefSC, on 09 April 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

Kurita won first Beta round. Mercs ended up irrelevant; they largely hopped around and made their overall impact close to null. The hardcore loyalists at Kurita stuck to their guns in fair and foul instead of flouncing off when things didn't go their way or to get an extra mech bay.

The result was them building a strong foundation for their faction that is likely to last a long time as well as significant (if at times grudging) respect. While most other factions can't even get their units to drop on a communal ts server to coordinate drops and integrate pugs Kurita puts a lot of work into integrating units and pugs and coordinating drops.

The only mercs who earned any respect are the ones who hung around in factions long enough to integrate and worked with their employers to be a boon to overall objectives.

Kurita won because most other dedicated comp units flounced off, went merc and never hung out anywhere long enough to be relevant or refused to really engage with their faction as a whole.

Kurita won? Yeah, until the event with the FRR there territory was a huge mess. They got there capital world surrounded, same for FRR and easyly half of there territory was took.

Not a flawless victory I think.

[Richter Kerensky]

Kurita fought on 7 fronts and ended up growing. The only people Kurita couldn't fight were FRR and Liao which were too isolated to gain borders with Kurita. All clans and every other IS faction bordered Kurita and Kurita held the line and even pushed them back.

[Pat Kell]

How can anyone be declared a winner in a game that was designed (unintentionally) to favor the side with the most people? Once the IS realized that in order to hold a planet, all they had to do was send 1 extra 12 man to defend any given planet (and their population went through the roof), it was over. Even if they lost every single match it didn't matter. IS pilots have certainly gotten better in my opinion and I don't think that this proposed fix will help as much as the clans would like but you can hardly declare victory in the version. Seriously, when you see stats like what came out of the CW event, how can you. Clan teams won 53% of the fights and took 0 planets. IS teams won 47% of the fights and took 53 planets....come on guys, pull your heads out of your collective asses.

I like how close the win/loss ratio is as I would imagine it's extremely difficult to get an exactly even balance so in that sense, we all won as balance is closer now then it has ever been but we all lost in the sense that a lot of people on both sides of the war figured that the game was rigged to favor the side with the most people and they have slowly been gravitating to other things. Hopefully they come back on the 21st and give it another go.

[Richter Kerensky]

The "attack and counter attack" modes switching after every match should help a lot in terms of populaton versus fairness. We'll see how that goes.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 11 April 2015 - 03:12 AM.

[Prussian Havoc]

Mystere, on 10 April 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

How can Terra fall when PGI does not even allow it to be taken? In fact, they also did not allow your capital planet to be taken.

You, I and everyone know the goal of the Clan Invasion was to REACH Terra.

We failed to breach TERRAN Space.

The Clan Invasion (OPN REVIVAL) failed.

Anything else is quibbling.

Richter Kerensky, on 11 April 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

The "attack and counter attack" modes switching after every match should help a lot in terms of populaton versus fairness. We'll see how that goes.

What gamers are not taking into sufficient account is that while Clan Invasions will benefit from this change, so to will simultaneous Inner Sphere (numerically inferior) Attacks on Clan-held worlds.

Thus IMO Clans will need to defend more often against a MUCH more tenacious Inner Sphere during EACH and EVERY Ceasefire-cycle.

And less we forget, when we all reached that decisive point during the single, solitary Community Warfare Weekend Challenge run by PGI - the Inner Sphere proved to have a substantially larger player base, to the extent the Inner Sphere wine back upwards of 70-plus worlds and counting.

Elizander, on 11 April 2015 - 12:44 AM, said:

I think this brings up the bigger issue of lack of goals/objectives. CW right now is like a sandbox where players really don't have a lot of decisions on which place to attack and there is no reason to attack a planet other than to get the border extended. It's like a war without any strategy or no generals and we just have masses of frontline troops throwing themselves at each other.

CW needs goals, each planet taken needs to feel significant in some way to the faction, the individual player and to the unit that contributed the most into taking/defending it. Other than the borders, there is really no lasting effect of 'winning' planets which honestly makes it feel like an empty battle for those who are looking for more than just the endscreen rewards and loyalty points.

Hope this gets addressed eventually.

PGI has long held to the Development Plan that holds up Community Warfare Phase 3 as the point where "World Valuation" (http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4343647) and "Unit Logistics" will first enter the game.

As to the portion of your post where you speak of CW decisions and Generals... there is a JJ potential Game-Breaking Issue here IMO. Players ONLY EVER drop in Company or Binary-Plus (12-man) Teams (there are no Battalion-Minus or Trinary matches let alone the prerequisite Regimental or Cluster Matches) thus it is RIGHT and PROPERTY that gamers have ZERO control over Invasion Planet Selection or Pathing Decisions from the PGI Algorithm or Formula.

I really LIKE the fact that ALL gamers are created equal in CW. I would NOT want PGI to set a handful of gamers above their peers and put them in charge of MY faction's Pathing decisions. I think that would be the beginning of endless rounds of caustic comment and vicious vitriol both in MWO forums, REDDIT and a host of Unit and Faction websites/forums. This would endanger gamer population base numbers as new player retention would tail off dramatically... who wants to be part of a Communtiy that appears to "Eat its own?"

IMO I trust PGI to:

1). Better "Care and feeding" for Paul, as he is definitively PGI's "Man in the Loop" for CW Pathing!

2). Just as they have done by retiring the Pathing Algorithm in favor of the Pathing Formula, PGI has proven committed toward crafting a more reasonable and reliable Pathing mechanism.

3). Gamers enjoy MWO:CW, but it is a significant portion of MWO's future viability, no one has a stronger vested interest in ensuring CW develops into a decisive game mode than PGI.

4). PGI knows which aspects of CW have the best return per $ invested. I trust PGI to make the smart decisions with respect to priority of Developmemt. Whereas I have NO DOUBT (if left up to gamers) we would demand facets and aspects that would quickly bankrupt PGI through our failure to appreciate the central-reality that PGI's fiscal health and MWO's continued viability are directly tied to game monetization. Without the revenue streams made possible through future surges of PAYING gamers from Steam, PGI (a single title Developer) and MWO (its single title) are in dangerous straights of fiscal strain and eventual bankruptcy.

Yes, truly... Let us work WITH PGI to craft CW into the definitive Game Mode.

A solid step in this direction occured when PGI re-normalized Contract Compensation UP from precious baselines of 50 Loyalty Points and 50k C-bills to the NEW norms of 75 Loyality Points and 75k C-bills.

One of the central criticisms of CW has been that when you factor in time spent waiting for a match, then a 30-minute match itself, the C-bill to minute ratio for CW fell WAY TOO FAR BEHIND Public Queue. While this latest increase does not go far enough IMo, it is a solid move in the right direction.

CW has progressed extremely far during this now-concluding Phase 1 of CW BETA and IMO PGI is positioned to take the "CW Experience" to the next level in this next Phase of CW BETA.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 11 April 2015 - 04:51 AM.

[Elizander]

Prussian Havoc, on 11 April 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

As to the portion of your post where you speak of CW decisions and Generals... there is a potential Game-Breaking Issue here IMO. Players ONLY EVER drop in Company or Binary-Plus (12-man) Teams (there are no Battalion-Minus or Trinary matches let alone the prerequisite Regimental or Cluster Matches) thus it is RIGHT and PROPERTY that gamers have ZERO control over Invasion Planet Selection or Pathing Decisions from the PGI Algorithm or Formula.

I was not saying that gamers be the one to pick. I'm looking at this in the point of view as a game. We have some nice text at the end of the win/lose but there is nothing to build up the battle at the start. Click on a queue, wait, fight and that's it. Take the nearest planet? Go where there are more people? People fight, but for what? There is no mission text to brief you on why a world needs to be conquered and it's simple borderwars on all fronts. The presence of someone in charge is simply not there. Planets are just planets. They are all the same with the same map, which is fine, but details can be added to make each one different. It feels incomplete. Right now we are fighting over dots and squiggly lines.

[Gyrok]

Geist Null, on 10 April 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

that's really why you think clans lost? you couldn't keep a world contained so everyone quit trying. I think you need to detach yourself from your unit for a while and examine the clan world from a different view point.

No, many seem to have taken this out of context.

The above mentioned post is not the reason we lost. There are a combination of reasons we lost so many planets, the biggest culprit being a bug in the match creation system.

However, the reason no one on the clan side is fighting anymore is the above post plus an impending map reset.

Edited by Gyrok, 11 April 2015 - 05:05 AM.

[Gyrok]

Novawrecker, on 11 April 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

See that Kurtian Unit's tag on Luthien? PGI didn't put that there, genious.

Stop making excuses like a punk. PGI didn't stop the clans from taking Luthien ... WE DID. Don't forget it.

Actually, Luthien would be taken if PGI did not stop it after one cycle.

[Osis]

Novawrecker, on 11 April 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

See that Kurtian Unit's tag on Luthien? PGI didn't put that there, genious.

Stop making excuses like a punk. PGI didn't stop the clans from taking Luthien ... WE DID. Don't forget it.

Do you take pills to be that stupid, another PGI bug allowed you to put a tag on that planet (for one cycle). The same way one weekend event highlighted a major PGI fail that cost us months of work and basically ended the Beta for most Clans.

Community Warfare is about numbers, PGI kept tweaking and increasing rewards to favour the IS units and most teams left to benefit.

The result is as per PGI plans and the irony of the spelling in your post is lost on no one.

Edited by Osis, 11 April 2015 - 05:37 AM.

[Tasker]

Osis, on 11 April 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

Do you take pills to be that stupid, another PGI bug allowed you to put a tag on that planet (for one cycle). The same way one weekend event highlighted a major PGI fail that cost us months of work and basically ended the Beta for most Clans.

Community Warfare is about numbers, PGI kept tweaking and increasing rewards to favour the IS units and most teams left to benefit.

The result is as per PGI plans and the irony of the spelling in your post is lost on no one.

Hm. Maybe PGI killed the clans. Or maybe I did. With my Stalker 4N? Ha Ha Ha. Good games, SA.

[Prussian Havoc]

Elizander, on 11 April 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

I was not saying that gamers be the one to pick. I'm looking at this in the point of view as a game. We have some nice text at the end of the win/lose but there is nothing to build up the battle at the start. Click on a queue, wait, fight and that's it. Take the nearest planet? Go where there are more people? People fight, but for what? There is no mission text to brief you on why a world needs to be conquered and it's simple borderwars on all fronts. The presence of someone in charge is simply not there. Planets are just planets. They are all the same with the same map, which is fine, but details can be added to make each one different. It feels incomplete. Right now we are fighting over dots and squiggly lines.

Ah... I better understand where you are coming from now and I agree completely.

One would think that Sarna has all the data needed. Just like PGI has linked up with Smurfy, one could hope that soon PGI manages to better graphically depict at a minimum the MUCH greater wealth of planetary data available in Sarna.

Osis, on 11 April 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

Do you take pills to be that stupid,

Spoiler

another PGI bug allowed you to put a tag on that planet (for one cycle). The same way one weekend event highlighted a major PGI fail that cost us months of work and basically ended the Beta for most Clans.

Community Warfare is about numbers, PGI kept tweaking and increasing rewards to favour the IS units and most teams left to benefit.

The result is as per PGI plans and the irony of the spelling in your post is lost on no one.

Caustic comment / personal degradation coming from a Smoke Jaguar (from -SA- no less) ONLY EVER serves to degrade the Smoke Jaguar name... even NKVA keeps it away from the realm of Personal Attacks centered on someone taking medication/drugs.

KEEP IT CLEAN or keep it away from these forums please.

Gyrok, on 11 April 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

Actually, Luthien would be taken if PGI did not stop it after one cycle.

Always riding the Moral High Ground, friend Gyroc thank you for that.

LUTHIEN came up for Invasion twice.... BOTH times (by the 4-hour mark) Paul indicated on Twitter that is the Clans had won, LUTHIEN would have remained with House KURITA and another nearby world substituted in its place.

Seeing as how the IS won out and CSJ denied, Paul was never forced to take LUTHIEN back and manually redistribute it.

IMO, Night's Scorn deserves their TAG on the Combine's Homeworld... their is very little debate that NS won the effort through their incomparable "Get out the Vote" / "Drop in Defense of LUTHIEN" effort among BOTH their CW and non-CW gamer-bases for the stellar exception the First and Second Battles of LUTHIEN proved to be.

Gyrok, on 11 April 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

No, many seem to have taken this out of context.

The above mentioned post is not the reason we lost. There are a combination of reasons we lost so many planets, the biggest culprit being a bug in the match creation system.

However, the reason no one on the clan side is fighting anymore is the above post plus an impending map reset.

I tend to disagree with your observation.

Gamers are forgetting that the new match creation system is a TWO-EDGED sword. For each Clan Invasion there is the reciprocal Clan-held world open to Inner Sphere Reprisal Attack.

In the past the OLD match creation system worked HEAVILY in Clan Favor by safeguarding our worlds from Repriasal Attack because the IS ponied up only modest numbers of Attackers against our worlds.

With the UPCOMING change, Attacks going BOTH WAYS will benefit... IMO it will be the Factions with the best TeamSpeak WAR-ROOMS that will manage to derive the best benefit from the new match creation system. And THAT is just as it should be in COMMUNITY Warfare IMO.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 11 April 2015 - 10:17 AM.

[R Razor]

Nightshade24, on 10 April 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Well of course clans got defeated, they were at a disadvantage the whole time.

Can't really take pride by stealing candy from a disabled baby from the neck down.

And yet you did for months before they started balancing the game a little better...........once your candy supply was cut off you cried great salty tears until PGI started reversing some of the changes made to some IS mechs.........just as you're all doing now regarding the 4N.

Hyprocrites all.

[Tasker]

Just got back from the gym and I see this thread still going.

Here, let me explain. You like March Madness? I like March Madness. Know it is little late, but here is my bracket for March:



Performed better than 100% of country Ha Ha Ha.

Edited by Tasker, 11 April 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[Onionbird]

A perfect bracket. Can you clanners appreciate the odds of that happening? Of course not. Silly me. Ha ha ha.

[InspectorG]

Contest for:

CW dots on map?

Or

Tears about OP in forum?

Which am i voting for?

[Novawrecker]

Osis, on 11 April 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

Do you take pills to be that stupid, another PGI bug allowed you to put a tag on that planet (for one cycle).

Are you that much of an idiot or did you get rocked too hard that night by the IS? NO bug put that tag on there. The only "bug" was the allowance of a Capital Planet to get attacked (and that's still under speculation). Had the clans actually taken Luthien, there would have been mass threads with screenshots to brag about it. It just turns out the clans were foiled. So you can shove your own pill comment up where the sun doesn't shine.

Again, don't give anyone lame excuses about clans' losses at Luthien. We stopped you. We DENIED you. Swallow that pill, dumb@$$.

Osis, on 11 April 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

Community Warfare is about numbers, PGI kept tweaking and increasing rewards to favour the IS units and most teams left to benefit.

You all had plenty that night and still lost. Don't blame it on any bugs (nice try though).

Osis, on 11 April 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

The result is as per PGI plans and the irony of the spelling in your post is lost on no one.

Above Translation: "Whaaaaa. We lost to IS. BLAME PGI!!! And since I got nothing else on ya, I'll try pick on you else where. Take my spelling irony attack! WHAAaaaaa".

Gyrok, on 11 April 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

Actually, Luthien would be taken if PGI did not stop it after one cycle.

Pardon to disagree with you, Gyrok. We had the numbers to stave off the clans attacks and the people dedicated to stay up as late (and exchange shifts) to keep the numbers up. IS stopped Clans cold that night regardless of one cycle or multiple.

Edited by Novawrecker, 11 April 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Connor Sellock]

I woke up in a cold sweat just minutes ago!

Fear...

Horror...

Revulsion...

Despair...

and Dread calling up and down my spine!!!



In my Dream (a Dream echoed in the hearts and Souls of every true Son of KURITA) PGI:MWO's coding developed an uncorrectable, ETERNAL "bug" ... a n d ... (like when your Mom told you not to cross your Eyes or they would get stuck like that):



NVKA "got stuck like that" as Clan Jade Falcon FOREVER...




As #JealousBirdies, Tasker and Crew proceeded to conquer their way across and through all the Clans, breached LUTHIEN Space, invaded Imperial City, violated the Palace... and committed unspeakable acts upon the flesh of Dear Coordinator!!!


It is a good thing I woke up...
...and that NKVA is returning to HK in a few days...







...NKVA is returning, right?

Edited by Connor Sellock, 11 April 2015 - 10:55 AM.