60 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

LordKnightFandragon, on 09 April 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

LOL, IKR? I personally believe Air strikes and artillery in MWO should only be available to the Lance and Company commander, so you get like 3 per game, and only if that guy is alive and uses them. YOu wanna use em? Take the slot. Not unlike Bf2 and 2142, want arty? take commander slot....

I do believe the commanders should have control of them.

I'm more on the line that -- heh, I didn't even have to finish that sentence to know that PGI would never do it. Though there's a few ideas I have which'll never happen.

1) Players control and manage Aerotech and land forces, whether within MWO or within sister games (AeroTech Online, BattleForces Online [I dunno.. evidently that's what the infantry-centric Battletech game is called; that and BattleTroop...I wish I was making that up]). It'd actually be a neat way to get into MWO, start as infantry and work your way up from there. The game would never support that kind of play though. Would love, at minimum if instead of Transverse they went with AeroTech online with a bit of space stuff alongside. But yeah, PGI... heh.

Seriously the sad face smiley on here isn't sad enough.

Neither is that.

2) Factions -- Not Mercs -- supply their units with a limited allotment of air and land units, controlled by the Command Mechs (as Command Mechs of higher than medium class generally have 2 seats and occasionally will have the full Command Console -- which is actually a full 3 ton command array in addition to a secondary piloting seat to take control in case if the pilot dies or loses consciousness). (Medium Command Mechs such as the Wolverine generally hold people of rank and authority).

In general the idea use of the Command Console would be the ability to direct not only the lances but also the AI units in a tactical game within the actual game.

Mercs on the other hand. Well, I mean look at the contract.


Least the faction is willing to pay a portion of the R&R costs while you're working for them... and a measily 200,000 something cbills per squad for each month the unit is still alive for the duration of the 4 month contract. And that's only for the equipment they provide you. They will pay 0 Cbills for any R&R for your own equipment.

You want an airstrike? Well the faction you're working for can provide you one, and it will pay a portion of its R&R incurred during its operation in assisting you. Wait, a Jagermech shot it down? Better hope you've got the rest of the 4,840,920 C-bills, because evidently they pay 271,500 C-Bill Equivalents and you get stuck with 4,569,420 C-Bill Equivalents that you've got shell out of pocket. Not to mention some help on the pilot's life insurance for his or her widow/widower.

But such is the Business of War.


There's other ideas, but I know they'll never happen so I'll save 'em for myself.

Far as artillery, it'd be nice if there was just some location on the map that each side had -- preferably changing as I would like turrets to also do (change locations so it's not always the exact same places) -- that you could send out your light mechs to go destroy. Something, anything, to give every kind of mech a good, proper use, instead of relying on Russ the Quirkinator or Paul the Nerfinator.

[Bill Lumbar]

Davers, on 09 April 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

People around here don't even know what grind is. Go play LoL, where you can play 36 hours to get one Champion- and then begin working on getting all the Runes for them.

I log on here and play 2-3 nights a week. It seems that I have like 6 million Cbills to spend on mechs/modules every week. I don't even use premium time, or worry about consumable costs. I really don't understand people's complaints about the 'Paulconomy'.

I think many don't understand why you would take the time to post a reply here and state what you have if the "Paulonomy" was to lessen and you and all players made more for their time and money invested into this game. Seems rather odd that some of you feel so strongly about this topic....when in reality it is a issue for many, and it is a painful grind fest we have all endured. Keep buying PT, mech packs, colors, camos, and all the other things PGI brings at a high cost, and show them that "whales" are the only players needed here to keep the game funded and have enough players to fill the ques. (which btw.....seems kinda on the low side now a days.)

[LordKnightFandragon]

Koniving, on 09 April 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

I do believe the commanders should have control of them.

I'm more on the line that -- heh, I didn't even have to finish that sentence to know that PGI would never do it. Though there's a few ideas I have which'll never happen.

1) Players control and manage Aerotech and land forces, whether within MWO or within sister games (AeroTech Online, BattleForces Online [I dunno.. evidently that's what the infantry-centric Battletech game is called; that and BattleTroop...I wish I was making that up]). It'd actually be a neat way to get into MWO, start as infantry and work your way up from there. The game would never support that kind of play though. Would love, at minimum if instead of Transverse they went with AeroTech online with a bit of space stuff alongside. But yeah, PGI... heh.

Seriously the sad face smiley on here isn't sad enough.

Neither is that.

2) Factions -- Not Mercs -- supply their units with a limited allotment of air and land units, controlled by the Command Mechs (as Command Mechs of higher than medium class generally have 2 seats and occasionally will have the full Command Console -- which is actually a full 3 ton command array in addition to a secondary piloting seat to take control in case if the pilot dies or loses consciousness). (Medium Command Mechs such as the Wolverine generally hold people of rank and authority).

In general the idea use of the Command Console would be the ability to direct not only the lances but also the AI units in a tactical game within the actual game.

Mercs on the other hand. Well, I mean look at the contract.


Least the faction is willing to pay a portion of the R&R costs while you're working for them... and a measily 200,000 something cbills per squad for each month the unit is still alive for the duration of the 4 month contract. And that's only for the equipment they provide you. They will pay 0 Cbills for any R&R for your own equipment.

You want an airstrike? Well the faction you're working for can provide you one, and it will pay a portion of its R&R incurred during its operation in assisting you. Wait, a Jagermech shot it down? Better hope you've got the rest of the 4,840,920 C-bills, because evidently they pay 271,500 C-Bill Equivalents and you get stuck with 4,569,420 C-Bill Equivalents that you've got shell out of pocket. Not to mention some help on the pilot's life insurance for his or her widow/widower.

But such is the Business of War.


There's other ideas, but I know they'll never happen so I'll save 'em for myself.

Far as artillery, it'd be nice if there was just some location on the map that each side had -- preferably changing as I would like turrets to also do (change locations so it's not always the exact same places) -- that you could send out your light mechs to go destroy. Something, anything, to give every kind of mech a good, proper use, instead of relying on Russ the Quirkinator or Paul the Nerfinator.

You cannot know how awesome an actual Battletech MMO would be. Be kinda like Planetside 2, but with mechs, aero tech the like. I guess like MWLL and all it had then some and actual company backing to really make it happen.

Start off with your soldier, at creation you choose between: Infantryman, Armor, Mech Pilot and Aerospace pilot.

You then fight and such and earn your way along as that class. Infantry would be very yikes to play in a world of mechs haha. Though I guess no worse then BFRs in Planetside 1....

There would be PVE to hunt, PVP if you wanted, and all that jazz...a FPS MMO based off Battletech.....

[Madcap72]

I make more than that in my Urbanmech.


Up your game buddy.

Or, you know, trololololol along.

[Koniving]

LordKnightFandragon, on 09 April 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

There would be PVE to hunt, PVP if you wanted, and all that jazz...a FPS MMO based off Battletech.....

One thing to absolutely be sure of, is like Revival (an upcoming MMO)... Hotbar combat and "leveling up" has got to go if that is to work, and instead it should rely on its own universe.

Until then... watch out for the police.


Oh... and I think it'd be awesome to team up with friends to ruin some 55 tonner's day.

Poor Griffin.

Madcap72, on 09 April 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

I make more than that in my Urbanmech.

In the above situation, people would love to have you around.

Just look at how well the trash can takes out the trash.

[Davers]

Bill Lumbar, on 09 April 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

I think many don't understand why you would take the time to post a reply here and state what you have if the "Paulonomy" was to lessen and you and all players made more for their time and money invested into this game. Seems rather odd that some of you feel so strongly about this topic....when in reality it is a issue for many, and it is a painful grind fest we have all endured. Keep buying PT, mech packs, colors, camos, and all the other things PGI brings at a high cost, and show them that "whales" are the only players needed here to keep the game funded and have enough players to fill the ques. (which btw.....seems kinda on the low side now a days.)

YMMV. There is nothing I can't buy in game with 2 weeks of casual play. Maybe you think that is too much. I would agree that new players should probably get a little more of a boost.

Also, the game should not necessarily cater to the 'must own everything' crowd as the 'normal player'. It shouldn't be considered the norm for every player to own 150 mechs.

[Apnu]

CrushLibs, on 09 April 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

poor game 200ish dmg = 26K

decent game 600ish dmg = 86K

I use a consumable Iam basically making no money or losing money.

Come on PGI stop nerfing the cbills

I must be lucky. If I take a no c-bill bonus mech and I do about 200 damage, I'm still earning 75k-100k w/out PT running on a loss. I get lots of assists, scouting, flanking and protection payouts. Add 50k on a win but still about 200 damage.

[Bill Lumbar]

Davers, on 09 April 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

YMMV. There is nothing I can't buy in game with 2 weeks of casual play. Maybe you think that is too much. I would agree that new players should probably get a little more of a boost.

Also, the game should not necessarily cater to the 'must own everything' crowd as the 'normal player'. It shouldn't be considered the norm for every player to own 150 mechs.

You base your claims on what information? Many have already added up their life time earnings, have run the numbers, Even if PGI bumped up all earnings by 30-50% from the level they are at now, NOBODY, even guys that buy PT and run it 24/7 is in any danger of "having them all" any time soon. Unless of course one has the time to play 7 days a week, 6+hours a day... and they have PT, and PGI bumps up the earnings by said amount. Most would still be looking at 6 - 8 months straight... 6+ hours a day, 7 days a week to have even a hope of "getting them all".

You amongst a few others make all these wild and extremely false claims regarding "having it all/wanting them all" with no real truth behind them. This goes beyond new players, its a issue for Veterans as well. This model doesn't keep players interested in playing more, nor does it open up wallets, with the exception of the "true die hard fans" of BT and this game. Its really that simple.

Further more, this game should not cater to greed and the "Die hards" either when it comes to the "grind" we all experience while playing. Some players have all they need, have been playing for a few years, and must feel it would hurt them some how if the grind was lessened a bit for all players. IMO, you guys that really feel this way will be the death of this game in the end.

It will not help win new players our way, it will not keep players playing, and it will not increase the desire for many to open their wallets and drop cash on this game.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 09 April 2015 - 03:10 PM.

[Satan n stuff]

Abisha, on 09 April 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

i think they need to make consumables like 3 times more expensive.
air strikes do not belong in Mech warriors game.

You'd have a lot of fun playing MechCommander then.
$%#$ing airospotters I $%#$ing hate you so much.

[Davers]

Bill Lumbar, on 09 April 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

You base your claims on what information? Many have already added up their life time earnings, have run the numbers, Even if PGI bumped up all earnings by 30-50% from the level they are at now, NOBODY, even guys that buy PT and run it 24/7 is in any danger of "having them all" any time soon. Unless of course one has the time to play 7 days a week, 6+hours a day... and they have PT, and PGI bumps up the earnings by said amount. Most would still be looking at 6 - 8 months straight... 6+ hours a day, 7 days a week to have even a hope of "getting them all".

You amongst a few others make all these wild and extremely false claims regarding "having it all/wanting them all" with no real truth behind them. This goes beyond new players, its a issue for Veterans as well. This model doesn't keep players interested in playing more, nor does it open up wallets, with the exception of the "true die hard fans" of BT and this game. Its really that simple.

Further more, this game should not cater to greed and the "Die hards" either when it comes to the "grind" we all experience while playing. Some players have all they need, have been playing for a few years, and must feel it would hurt them some how if the grind was lessened a bit for all players. IMO, you guys that really feel this way will be the death of this game in the end.

It will not help win new players our way, it will not keep players playing, and it will not increase the desire for many to open their wallets and drop cash on this game.

The basis for my statements is the same as yours- opinion.

I don't think veterans are in the position you claim them to be. I have so much stuff- I can't remember the last time I had to actually buy an engine- I already have multiple XL and Standard engines in every weight increment… I have so much stuff that outfitting mechs is a joke. Many players I know have hundreds of millions of Cbills. I think I even know a billionaire. Are these the players that need Cbill buffs?

I have so many mechs that if I were to try to play them all every day for one match it would take 12+hours to work through them. Honestly, I don't care if they increase the rewards or not. I am just stating that the grind in this game is nothing compared to other F2P games.

As I said, YMMV.

[AThousandD]

For a long time I've said the C-bills gain is okay, providing you know how to make the most of the rewards system.

However, I use consumables without qualms. Not just cool shots on hot mechs to squeeze out one more alpha, not just airstrikes (which sometimes I'll drop frivolously, sometimes I'll hit the jackpot), but the UAV is one of my standard tools on the vast majority of my mechs. I feel neither UAVs nor strikes ever make even a fraction of their cost back in the rewards they bring (not counting tipping the odds towards winning the match). With my liberal use of consumables, that's 40k less on earnings almost every match, or frequently 80k less on my earnings.

Which leads me to one more thing that is telling me the rewards could see a small increase: I bought a number of mechbays during the last mechbay sale, giving me 15 free mechbays. Using premium time gained during events and maybe a week of PT from buying the first two levels of the Resistance pack, I've made enough dosh to buy and kit out Timbers and then all 9 Resistance mechs. Currently my coffer is almost empty, but I still have 12 mechbays that could use new mechs. I'm planning to get the Crabs, the Direwolves and the Stormcrows. 9 mechs. With the C-bill gain that I have, I don't think I'll need any new mech bays for a long time (add in those that come from CW and I'll be set for the next, I'm guessing, year at the least).

And this is my point - by limiting how many C-bills I get from my games, PGI are limiting the amount of dosh I could send their way for new mechbays. I honestly don't see the need for buying mechbays for the foreseeable future. However, were I to fill the mechbays that I have, I'd be looking to acquire more. Not happening for at least one more year, looking at the lineup of mechs I want to buy.

There you have it. Think about it, PGI.

[Bill Lumbar]

Davers, on 09 April 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

The basis for my statements is the same as yours- opinion.

I don't think veterans are in the position you claim them to be. I have so much stuff- I can't remember the last time I had to actually buy an engine- I already have multiple XL and Standard engines in every weight increment… I have so much stuff that outfitting mechs is a joke. Many players I know have hundreds of millions of Cbills. I think I even know a billionaire. Are these the players that need Cbill buffs?

I have so many mechs that if I were to try to play them all every day for one match it would take 12+hours to work through them. Honestly, I don't care if they increase the rewards or not. I am just stating that the grind in this game is nothing compared to other F2P games.

As I said, YMMV.

The claim you made regarding "having them all" if rewards would increase is a opinion, and nothing more. The numbers have shown that sure, if rewards increased, one could have them all... but the numbers are the numbers and the length of time it would take I stated is not a opinion. That is the difference between our "opinions", and the difference between our thoughts on this matter. Your opinions are pretty easy to see through regarding this topic as are the motives for you to have them, as are the others that claim the same "opinions" as you on this topic.


As for the Question.... I would say no, you and they don't need any C-bill buffs.... however, if you got them with ALL players getting them, sounds like not much would change for you guys. However, everyone else would progress at a faster then a snails pace we have now, mech bays would be bought... money will be spent faster on the game. Many that feel PT is not very rewarding will see more "value" from it, and chances are, will purchase it more often. These are all very simple concepts... ones that spread love to your players, and in return, chances are, they will spread some cash back PGI's way.

When Players log on and drop in a game, and at the end of that said game played, they look at the rewards screen, they don't shake their heads anymore when they go to purchase a mech for C-bills anymore... or anything regarding C-bill purchases. They see a light at the end of the very long tunnel instead of nothing but hopes of one day, after a year and a half of play, they might have made enough to buy 30 of the 150+ mechs out right now. If PGI raised the earnings by 50% even, ohh.... they would have 60 mechs of the 150+ with more coming every month. These are real numbers, not false claims of how long it takes to grind out mechs with earnings. IF you and others are fine with that kind of time frame, great.... I am not.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 09 April 2015 - 04:16 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Hyper99, on 09 April 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

This is what drives me bonkers about this game. We should get random/split salvage and rare drops ect...

Most of the time we get heat sinks and MG or whatever
Rarely we get a gauss or even a module
Keep C-Bill earnings how they are now...

Good point. I completely agree. That would really add to the rewards to get weapons and stuff.

[Fate 6]

Kuritaclan, on 09 April 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

Aritllery and Air Forces are no more an arm of the service?

@OP

stop using consumables - start advancing your skills to kill uavs, scout, flank, stay with your lance blow out components etc. I don't have premium time, i don't win every game - i think c-bills could be more, but however it is F2P. Suck it up or invest real money.

Having good skills makes you realize coolshots/UAVs are insanely strong. It's the difference between winning and losing in a lot of cases, especially in the case of a good UAV.

F2P isn't an excuse for a terrible economy. I don't even unlock mechs anymore cuz it takes too long. I have the mechs I need. However, it would be FUN to try playing other mechs. Unfortunately I don't have the spare CBill to go experimenting.

[Eboli]

A well placed UAV can make a world of difference in regards to a win or a loss and can really turn a game around. Sometimes I don't care about the cost thinking that a win is more important (including the win bonus anyhow).

Cheers!
Eboli

[Bobzilla]

Koniving, on 09 April 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Stuff

All that lore and stuff, guess we should make everything lore and TT realated huh?

First you have to buy the vehicles that drop the strikes and are involved in their support, then pay a huge amount to cover all the supplies involved. Then when you call an airstrike, a mini-game opens to see if you can actually control the airspace.

Then toss all aiming, weapons are random hit, just select the mech, pew pew and hope for the best. Second clans need to be changed a lot for the better, armor cut down, ammo cut down, heat redone...

Wait, that isn't the game we have. Maybe we should just stick with how things work in this game.

I hapen to agree with him, they should cost a lot more and/or not be in this game at the moment. We get some in depth economy/logistics, battles for strategic placing.....sure. But to say that everybody can call a strike, twice in 15 minutes or faster is how this universe and game has always been is just silly.

[Koniving]

Bobzilla, on 09 April 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

I hapen to agree with him, they should cost a lot more and/or not be in this game at the moment. We get some in depth economy/logistics, battles for strategic placing.....sure. But to say that everybody can call a strike, twice in 15 minutes or faster is how this universe and game has always been is just silly.

Liked for this much.

And there isn't any choice in the whole sticking with this game. It's what we have.

I personally believe the income is too high, the lack of support from the factions is awfully apparent, that faction-based players should not have to deal with R&R unless they customize their mechs... that Mercs should get to enjoy a hardcore mode of repair and rearm, that LRMs should be separated into 1) standard pop up the battlegrid and point at the location to rain hail straight down on..

2) Homing LRMs, which will follow the TAG signals of not the user but the spotter, going wherever the spotter aims. Finally 3) Artemis LRMs/SRMs, which akin to Homing LRMs will go after a laser pointer -- the one that comes on each of your launchers... in which ECM can only truly interrupt the Artemis version by getting between you and your intended target or you and your missiles. TAG/Homing LRMs too depending on which source book you care to review (FASA, Wizkidz or Catalyst Games) by getting between your missiles, the TAG spotter, and the target (as being near you will have zero effect). The first set of LRMs? Barely guided, just directed with a tendency to gravitate toward enemies. No ECM effect and no lock necessary. Complete with Clan standard LRM variant being face-to-face spray missiles, because that's exactly how they are used (and the reason for the lack of a 180 meter min range accuracy penalty; they fire straight not up).


I also believe that Clanners shouldn't be able to use their IS cbill earnings to get new mechs and parts but instead earn their stuff by proving their valor in honorable combat rather than how well they can point and click with Gauss Rifles and Lasers from 1,000 meters away in concealment.

And yes, airstrikes twice every 15 minutes is a bit ridiculous. Especially since it amounts to a strafing run of a couple of bullets -- something that isn't done all that much except by the Deathstalker or Deathstriker or whatever F77, which only has a single AC/10. Out of a lot and I mean a lot of Aerotech bombers that was the only one I could find with ACs (goes up to a UAC/10). The ones made for bombing use Arrow IV missiles which are closer to the damage we get, guided by TAGs on the ground.

You certainly wouldn't see very many of them either. Who brings a TAG? Not all that many.

Though I think you should peek at the sequential posts after that one. I was teasing him more than anything by adding his "doesn't belong in a mechwarrior game" with all the other 'crazy stuff' that people say doesn't belong in a mechwarrior game either.

I'm in full agreement that it shouldn't be spammed. I even gave a full contract, in which if you go by the stipulations of the contract if an Aerotech Deathwhatever F-77 was used and then shot down by the enemy, you'd be shelling out 4,500,000+ Cbills to replace it because the faction only agrees to pay 271,500 cbills of whatever resupplies you need.
----------------

Though I'd just be happy with PGI giving us something on the map that we can shoot at to get rid of enemy artillery strikes, and the ability to shoot the enemy aircraft out of the air. Perhaps with a little reward to gloat over for doing it.

Edited by Koniving, 09 April 2015 - 06:47 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I use arty and cool shot and almost never have premium time turned on and do fine making cash. Does help to run a prime mech though.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 09 April 2015 - 07:02 PM.

[Escef]

CrushLibs, on 09 April 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

poor game 200ish dmg = 26K

decent game 600ish dmg = 86K

I use a consumable Iam basically making no money or losing money.

Come on PGI stop nerfing the cbills

How are you getting payouts that low?

[Xetelian]

Koniving, on 09 April 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Son, I want you to pull up a chair.
Order a drink.

Because it won't matter if you do it in the West..

Or the East.

You're simply wrong.

Comstar uses airstrikes in Battle of Tukayyid while fighting on Clan terms, in a Clan Batchall, who also used Airstrikes and Airborne forces. Both sides also used tanks, infantry, and 'Mechs.

Airstrikes are considered playable cards in the BT card game.

Mechwarrior (or the source material Battletech at least), also has Battlemechs that transform INTO bombers to commence airstrikes.

Truth be told, Mechwarrior is missing a LOT of things. Like Melee.

What really happens when you poptart.

Combined infantry forces to SWARM the mechs.


Assistance from the local police in exo-skeleton powered armor.

The Inner Sphere's PA(L)s

and other forms of Battle Armor

to counter the Clan Elementals

in their nasty armor that rips the armor from your battlemech, when they aren't busy smoking.



Or worse, when they get their OWN Battle armor.


It's also missing the ability to use machine guns to shoot down missiles since AMS is basically an MG on a turret.

We're also missing the ability to go through buildings.


Also, tanks have a valid place in the battlefield. This one single-handedly took out 1 Atlas and 6 Enforcers using only 2 AC/10s and 4 LRM-5s. The Atlas and two Enforcers were taken out in 10 seconds. The Atlas and 4 of the Enforcers were all taken out AFTER it got tracked (the catapillar tracks on the right side were destroyed by quad LBX from the custom Atlas).


Vehicles and their place as serious threats.


Next you'll probably tell me that there's no place for Robots, Dinosaurs or Aliens or monkey men.

Yep robots. Wait... why are you looking so confused?

Why yes. Yes, I did just say Dinosaurs.


No, I wasn't kidding. But yeah. Aliens.

And Monkey Men.



Oh, uh... That drink doesn't seem like it was strong enough.

Here, have a teddy bear. Because after trying to say that airstrikes -- which rarely get used anyway -- have no place in a Mechwarrior game...

you're gonna be a very, very lonely dog.

All artistic images not from Megamek and excluding the Teddy Bear and the o_O robot from Dreamfall are, in fact, official Battletech artwork taken from various source books. All art are copyright their respective owners. Screenshots from "Mechwarrior" 1989 US version and "Mechwarrior" 1993 Japanese version are copyright their respective owners.

Because there should be one on every page.

What exactly does this have to do with the low cbills?